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VashTheStampede
 Post subject: CK1 Brake Upgrade
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:27 am 
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Has anyone ever done this or could rec something that will work....


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MISHI
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:04 pm 
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MIVEC/ GSR/ EVO 1/ 2/ 3


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VashTheStampede
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:47 am 
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Thanks for the info but are those straight bolt on applications or would I need some mods to apply them?


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MISHI
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:09 am 
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Yes, but you will need:

[Front]

(a) The entire spindle to bolt to car

(b) Brake booster from MIVEC/ GSR/ EVO

(c) Brake Master cylinder

(d) Proportioning valve.

[Rear]

Complete rear discs with handbrake cables and trailing arm


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VashTheStampede
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:19 pm 
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Thanks Mishi... now to go hunting..


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*KRONIK*
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:00 pm 
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punchin NOS
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or it may be closer dan u tink......


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srnoth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Anyone considered swapping in the front brakes from a CS3? I've always found the brakes on this model were significantly better than those on the CKs. Today I took them both apart and the CS3 has larger disks than my CK1 - 10" vs 9", and they're also noticeably thicker. They also seem to bolt on to the CK without any modifications - all you have to change are the disk, the caliper and the caliper bracket, or so it would seem. I fitted one side up today and it seemed to work, going to the bamboo saturday to see if I can source some spare CS3 brakes to test it out. Should be easier to source than Evo/GSR/Mivec brakes, and won't need to change bolt pattern either.

Before I go and spend my money though, anyone tried this before? Any thoughts?


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srnoth
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:57 pm 
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Oh and what is the disk size on the Mivec brakes?


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MISHI
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:35 pm 
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^ GSR, 1.8 Libero 4WD and MIVEC is 254mm in front... can't remember rear... might be 205mm or so.

Evo 1/ 2/ 3 is 276mm with 2 pot calipers. Better than the GSR but those are still a significant upgrade to the stock CK1


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srnoth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:33 pm 
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MISHI wrote:
^ GSR, 1.8 Libero 4WD and MIVEC is 254mm in front... can't remember rear... might be 205mm or so.



"Takes out measuring tape to see how long 254mm is in inches" :oops: :lol:

Well 254mm is 10" exactly, so it would seem that the CS3 disks are the same size as the CK Mivecs. Would that mean that they would work as well? Starting to look like a good idea lol.


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srnoth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:29 am 
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Okay well they fit up almost perfectly... just had to bend the guard behind the disk a little to get the larger disks to fit. Everything else just bolts on.

But.

The pistons are larger, and it seems that the stock brake system can't handle them. The problem is that they engage a lot further down the pedal. If you are moving and mash the brakes, the car only starts to stop when the pedal is almost to the floor, you get no resistance before that. However, pump the brakes a couple times and they hold damn well, engaging close to the top. But come off the brakes for a few seconds and mash again, and again the pedal goes almost to the floor.

That's the symptoms. From reading around on the internet, some people say you need a bigger master cylinder (makes sense, bigger calipers = more fluid needed to fill them, small cylinder simply doesn't hold enough). Other have said you just need to change a valve (I believe it was the proportional valve) and that would solve the problem.


Does anyone have any advice on this? I am trying to figure out the cheapest upgrade possible for us CK men. So far I've paid $600 for a pair of disks, calipers and caliper brackets off of a foreign used cedia (CS2 or 3). That's already a lot better than upgrading to mivec or gsr brakes which would mean changing rims as well. So trying to minimize the number of parts I would have to swap out. Really don't want to have to change the whole master cylinder/brake booster and proportioning valve.


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Sanctifier
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:49 am 
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punchin NOS
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srnoth wrote:
...But... The pistons are larger... they engage... when the pedal is almost to the floor... bigger calipers = more fluid needed to fill them, small cylinder simply doesn't hold enough. Other have said you just need to change a valve (I believe it was the proportional valve) and that would solve the problem.

...Really don't want to have to change the whole master cylinder/brake booster and proportioning valve.

IMHO just install the corresponding Master cylinder & Booster from the "doner" model...

The "proportioning valve" solution may be a short-cut... but will not be as reliable as
the OEM Master cylinder/Booster option... Problem solved... Permanently! :wink:

My $0.02¢


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*KRONIK*
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:53 am 
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punchin NOS
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agreed............

i found that upon upgrading my booster/mastercylinder to mivec (15/16)
my brake engages a lot further up the pedal thann with the original (7/8)


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MISHI
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:36 am 
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The Booster on the uprated Models should have the proportioning valve.

You should be able to get one from a non ABS Galant or the 1.8 Libero if need be.

Image

WARNING!

As you can see in the picture, there are are six ports. every NON ABS valve such as this will ALWAYS have the master cylinder ports (the ones facing up in this image) closest to the FRONT ports for your brakes and they will always be at right angles to each other.

So when installing your uprated booster and valve, make sure to trace your front brake lines and attatch them to the ports CLOSEST to the master cylinder ports, else you will find the car doesn't wish to stop or worse, you spin out.


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srnoth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Ok cool thanks for the responses guys... will visit the bamboo tomorrow.


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srnoth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Just a bit of an update... I rechecked both front brakes and found that one of the brakes pads was not seated properly, causing a rubbing noise and, apparently bad brake performance. The brakes now engage slightly higher up (the CK brakes always engaged kinda low), so it is now at an acceptable position. I will try to get the CS booster and master cylinder installed when I get a chance.

Here are the before and after pics:
Before:
Image

After:
Image


Not bad for a $600 upgrade. Noticeable improvement over the 9" CK brakes, car stops a lot easier, and brake fade is also noticeably less.


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TechArt
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Well done DIY upgrade, should get a lil sticky status for the mods.


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Sanctifier
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:09 am 
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punchin NOS
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TechArt wrote:
Well done DIY upgrade, should get a lil sticky status for the mods.

sticky status...Yup!

Excellent DIY Upgrade Review, srnoth ... 10 points :!:


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VashTheStampede
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:18 am 
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Nice info man :D hope to do mines soon...


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SCHOLARS
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:22 pm 
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ck6 spindle and rotor with evo 3 or 4 calipers. stay away from mivec booster look for evo or something else. mivec brakes are ah waste of time


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srnoth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Just an update on the CS3 upgrade... solved the problem with the low pedal... turned out I'd installed the left side caliper on the right and vice versa. They look almost identical except that when installed the wrong way round, the bleeding valve is pointing down instead of up, leaving air trapped in the calipers. Swapped them round, bled the whole system, adjusted the pedal height & free play as per the manual, and now the brakes are working perfectly. Easy to lock up the front wheels even at high speeds. Now to upgrade the back!

Also note I tried installing the CS3 booster & master cylinder. There are two types - a wider one which will not fit in the CK and a longer one which fit, but the pedal height is wrong and it didn't really have any improvement over the stock CK booster & cylinder. Went back to stock and the brakes work much better.

So that puts the grand total at $600 plus a bottle of brake fluid to bleed the system. Definitely worth the money. (Of course this is not counting the 4 days the car was down while I tried to figure out what was causing air to be trapped in the system... could have kicked myself when I realised what the problem was :lol: )


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A.W.O.L
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:29 pm 
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all part of the learning process...cuz now u could advise me on how to go about upgrading my cs2a lancer front an rear brakes... 0X


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srnoth
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:04 pm 
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^^Lol... I don't think Mitsubishi make and brakes larger than the ones on the CS with 4 x 100 spacing... you would have to look at upgrading your spindles as well, either to the 4 x 114 and using CK Mivec brakes, or upgrading to 5 hole spindles and using the brakes from an Evo 7 - 9.

You could also look into the brakes from the 1.8L Ralliart CS lancers (CS4?)... not sure what size brakes they used but they're likely to be better than the stock CS brakes.


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chindian88
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:21 pm 
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just came across this post from another and i might be buying a pair of f/u calipers soon for the CK). either the guide pins or the holes for them worn or both.
so now i think i just gona get a pair from the CS like what srnorth did and upgrade the front brakes.

already have the rotors in the back.

oh i also have the model with ABS, but i don't think that doing this upgrade should interfere with it, right?
seeing that the sensor points on the C.V. joint


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God Bless the Black Top*
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:28 am 
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yunno, don't always need to 'drop-in' a system to get results.

what you can do is:

- upgrade your brake fluid to one with a higher boiling points, i.e. dot 5.1 (something that can be used in dot 3 and 4 systems/non-silicone)

- steel braided lines

- better brake pads

- better rotors (slotted/drilled)

- master cylinder brace

and yuh safe! unless yuh toting real heavy power (and feelings) and need something more substantial? but is a NA 1.5?


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chindian88
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:05 pm 
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yes yes its a NA 1.5 but i might go 1.8 if i could afford when the time comes.

and seeing that i'll be needing a pair of calipers, i thought i'd just get the ones for the CS seeing that they're a bit bigger and line up without any probs.

and then if i do get the 1.8 i could add in all the stuff you mentioned.
hopefully its still around the same price.


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God Bless the Black Top*
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:12 pm 
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^ i personally don't think it's necessary to go with a whole different setup for the 1.8 NA.

i think once you work over your current setup, it should be fine. it would be such a shame if you bought all those bits and spent all that money, to receive the same pedal pressure and response.

have you driven a CS? have a you felt a significant difference?


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God Bless the Black Top*
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:13 pm 
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oh and good tyres will also make a substantial diff.


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srnoth
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:49 pm 
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Whiles I agree that you can work on the current system... I can also assure you that the braking system in the CS is much better than the CK.

CKs are known for their rather crappy braking setup.

Besides... it actually is cheaper, esp since he's buying new calipers anyway, to just get bigger disks one time. Those other upgrades you mentioned can be a lot more trouble.

With this upgrade... takes about an hour to remove old parts and install new ones.

So yes there are other things you can do as well... but this one is definitely worth it.

By the way don't forget that with the bigger calipers, you will need the bigger caliper brackets too. So the three things you need are bigger disks, calipers and caliper brackets. Plus some extra brake fluid for bleeding the new calipers.


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srnoth
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Oh and just to clarify... you DON'T need the booster or cylinder from the CS. The CK one works fine... just remember to install the calipers the right side round lol! (with the bleeding valve pointing up). So this doesn't need to cost more than $600 plus a bottle of brake fluid.


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