4G15 tuning and related info

[Rudman]

Let me save U some work here. A decent Autometer boost guage (20 psi) and an A/F guage with a mounting A pillar pod will set U back $1000 at least.

Man gorne clear yes..........he turboing the 4G15......

Aye pallie, U not running automatic with that setup right? I ent see U factoring a manual gearbox, competition clutch, clutch and brake pedals, cutting the firewall, etc, etc........

All this is additional downtime for the car. And prepare for the myraid of unforseen small parts U go have to be running down. U have a ride to work man?

[RA40-GTE]

dave, a question...
how much boost can the engine take safely on stock internals and intercooler?

[Dave]

on the sohc carbed 4g15 in the c62 i put 9lbs max and then the water pump gave
the newer ones were not as strong as the older ones, the castings were weaker esp the ports between the head and were known for cracking even with normal use

[RA40-GTE]

^^gracias senor..
i have more questions , but tomorrow for that..

[Dave]

no probs meng

[Mitsu power]

there is aftermartket high flow intake manifold that comes down with these engines saw a couple of them on startlet engines as well. its mandral bent aluminum pipes that is connected to a collector that the T/B is attached to if you could get one it may greatly help your results.

[venum]

oh gosh man, u want a w2j build
just get some fuel control via a SAFC and a manifold, turbo and a small intercooler and enjoy yourself
you could just lower the compression in the head and even that is not totally necessary

once u get a turbo, you can make the manifold from there
i would figure once u have all items and its just a matter if installation then around 2days max

yuh making it sound too easy Dave

was this all that you used on your application?

correct me if I am wrong and be as critical as you want, I welcome this from a knowledgeable 2nr as yourself

hear it, the setup that you describe would be using the stock pistons and rings, injectors

how would these hold out against low to mid levels of boost?

I would think that the application of boost would at least require some tougher pistons?

how would that affect the reliability of the engine as a daily driver?

I don't want to be seeing the mechanic every month

injectors?

the key factor of power that a turbo engine delivers is the amount of air in the cylinder, after all it's air that produces power

but with increased air an increased amount of fuel is needed to prevent burning lean and ultimately detonation, so stock injectors aided by a fuel management system should at the least be able to work

exhaust
you did not mention anything bout exhaust in your last post, why?

I really love acceleration more than top speed, so what do you think the effect of larger diameter down pipe would be on this setup

and for the tranny

As much as my left foot missing a clutch these days, puting a gearbox to this application would be nice, but this car is a daily driver and that gearbox would frustrate me, so its tranny for it

How do you think the stock F4A41 tranny would hold out?

this tranny is quite a robust lettle beyotch

the gear ratios are quite nice and I have no problems with it

do you think it can remain?

also the work of the installation of the gearbox (cutting firewall, installing pedals and shifters and all that especially wih my Mul-T-Lock setup) is just too much work

better buy a CM9A and done.

[blazing]

oh gosh man, u want a w2j build
just get some fuel control via a SAFC and a manifold, turbo and a small intercooler and enjoy yourself
you could just lower the compression in the head and even that is not totally necessary

once u get a turbo, you can make the manifold from there
i would figure once u have all items and its just a matter if installation then around 2days max

^^ditto

venum, with proper tuning you can hit 10-12 psi on those stocker internals. However for a daily driver it is maybe wise to go with 6-8psi.

4g15 injectors are 175cc i think, you NEED to upgrade to at least 210cc . 4g92 injectors are a direct fit and are rated at 210cc. However you should go with something 250cc up.

Also you need a new fuel pump and RRFPR, a walbro and aeromotive will do fine.

Exhaust needs a larger dump pipe and piping obviously as back pressure is the enemy of turbo cars. i say 2.25 or 2.25 will be good.

As for the Throttle body, the 1.8s come with a 50mm and the eclipse engines are 55mm and 60mm, compared to the 4g15's 45mms. All are direct bolt ups once you get the senors to match your current harnesses.

The tranny auto or manual, will hold up to the additional boost that you feed the engine unless you go past 15psi.

ECU-this is important. Get a SAFC or Emanage to control that stock ECU. This is pretty much the heart of your turbo car and you have to be a +%^&(*) if you think that the stock computer can manage the additional air and fuel coming into the engine.

For acceleration you will have to go with a smaller turbo like a t25, 13g, 14b, te04, or 13c.

Manifold- use your stock one and weld the flange on unless you have a good manifold builder with proper equipment (which i doubt) or alot of money to give to RPW.

Intercooler- a small side mount will be best. too large an intercooler will kill your boost and too small will not cool efficiently. FMICs are nice but not necessary and are usually too big.

Last but definately not least, your BRAKES AND SUSPENSION. No not simply putting EBC pads in the caliper. The brakes in the lancers are pretty sh!tty and is not safe for a turbocharged car. look to the eclipse for brakes.

there dont ask no more questions on those again

[venum]

^^^ thanx man

thaz more than a mouthful

since yuh say not to ask no more questions bout that, I won't

bit I will ask this

average $$$ - hit meh a figure

[blazing]

well it depends, but the basics are something like this:

ECU- E-manage and harnesses 2800 or SAFC - ??
Turbo - used 600-1200, new 1600 ++++
Manifold- flange and welding - 100
injectors - stock type 300+ - RC 1700 or so
SMIC - 300 - 600
gauges - at least 2- 600-1200
fuel pump - walbro - 900 / eclipse 400
RRFPR - 1000-1500
BOV - eclipse 300/ greddy 600 +
Air filter - 350 +
check valves for MAP- under 100
T-bolts and silicone couplers - 500
Gaskets, oil lines, colant lines, bolts and other misc things - 500+
Exhaust and intercooler piping - who you know
Proper Tuning - priceless

optional:
Throttle body - 500 to 800
catch can - 500+

then theres brakes and suspension to see about

[Dave]

there u go, average cost for a homemade/bamboo project is $4-6k

as for the tranny, since its not a sudden onslaught of power as in the case of NOS, a tranny cooler independent of the stock one would suffice

[Rudman]

Last but definately not least, your BRAKES AND SUSPENSION. No not simply putting EBC pads in the caliper. The brakes in the lancers are pretty sh!tty and is not safe for a turbocharged car. look to the eclipse for brakes.

Definately, I concure! Stock Lancer brakes are quiet sh!ety (sorry to say) EBC pads, slotted rotors and S.S. lines (and rear discs) in the stock setup aint going to cut it for a Turbo.

I see Eclipse parts are regularly referenced to for swap out parts (TB, brakes etc..) Where U finding this in Trini? FTO's were the same power plant?

Also remember U have ABS in your setup. Putting on a pair of Eclipse front rotors is going to increase your braking torque and mess with your brake bias. Interfering with your brake bias when the ABS has parameters for your stock setup may cause problems (see the Stoptech pages that dave posted up).

Some other things for U to consider.

[venum]

^^^ considering carefully

[blazing]

Also remember U have ABS in your setup. Putting on a pair of Eclipse front rotors is going to increase your braking torque and mess with your brake bias.

actually it works quite well

[Rudman]

^^ You did the upgrade? ABS in your setup as well? Im interested, what other parts did U have to swap out? Master cylinder or just front spindles and calipers?

No ill effects with ABS afterwards?

BTW, what hole spacing did the spindles come with, 4 x 114? What's the minimum rim clearance needed for the rotors, 15"? We talking new rims if U don't have 8 hole universal?

[venum]

Ok

latest research into some acceleration improvements


consulted my mechanic, whose mitsu advice I consider greatly and in high esteem.

he advised me of some extractor work

was thinking bout using a 4g92 stock header

but we think that it may not work, we need to measure it though, so this is yet a hypothesis until measurements proove it

the 4G92 stock headders are 4-1 and therefore not well adapted to the application that i want.

in keeping with my desire for low-end torque improvement

4-2-1 extractors, 1.5" mandrel bends

2" down pipe and a free-flow exhaust

also, if the $$$ running freely (which it currently is not)

3-angled head shaving - looking to take out bout 1/8"

saw a Evo head that he had shaved, quite nicely done

so my question is, where can I have the extractors made?

any thoughts on this improvement?

will post a pic of the stock exhaust manifold as soon as I can

the heat shield has been removed temporarily

[Dave]

the 4g92 is not a header and doesn't even begin to comapre to what the aftermkt makes, they actually disturbed flow in one pipe to make way for another, first rule of a good aftermkt header broken

shaving the head would make for possibly wrong cam timing and thus would require the need for cam sprokets to dial back in the cams

[Rudman]

Hmmm..........this thing getting expensive now boy, adjustable cam sprockets with that upgrade.

Venum, U ever check uot the RPW website? They list a number of stage1 (5psi) stage2 (8psi) etc upgrades for the 4G15 SOHC engine.

I think it might give a good idea of the work that needs to be done, and how an engine swap (they recommending a 4G93) might be the first thing to start with. There's only so much U could do with the DOHC 4G15. If U looking for moderate gains, upgrade it. If U looking for more, U might have to start with an engine swap.

my 2 cents, but check out the RPW site, its good reading.

[RA40-GTE]

^^ once he starts to order from rpw be prepared to shell out plenty $$...not worth it IMO in a 4g15. By the time cams etc ordered and shipped, he practically pay for a 4g93 sohc engine and box..

rpw no doubt has the knowledge, but its the $$ that will kill

if its just a small increase you looking for, slap on the turbo with stock internals and small psi..best bang for the buck there.

venum, just careful you dont end up spending 5-6k on an engine worth prob 2k and still not get the performance that you want..

invest in a v6 just kidding

EDIT: oh, rudman, thanks again for the manual, coming in very handy

[Rudman]

Yea man, no probs. Glad to help out a mitsu bro. After seeing how a V6 engine fit up in the CK engine bay, I really thinking an engine swap is one of the better ways to start from a DOHC 4G15....

[venum]

Here is a copy of an e-mail conversation between myself and an RPW representative concerning the engine performance improvements




----- Original Message -----
From: "Firstname Lastname" <venum4802@yahoo.com
To: "RPW Representative" <rpwinfo@iinet.net.au
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: performave improvements for a 4G15 DOHC


Name: Shawn Bridglal
Country: Trinidad & Tobago
State: Other
Alternative means of contact: -
Make of Vehicle: Mitsubishi
Model of Vehicle: Lancer
Year of Vehicle: 1999
Motor Capacity: 1.5L
Cylinder head: SOHC
Model of Motor: 4G15
Any Modifications done to date: RPW Short Ram free flow intake
Future plans of vehicle: to be determoned

Their Message:
I have a car as specified in the detalis above. It is the CK2A model Lancer.

The car is currently totally stock, with teh exception of an RPW Free-flow intake and an OBX cone air filter.

I would like to further modifiy the engine and suspension to produce greater torque and acceleration.

I am not interested in modification to increase my top speed, but mainly the acceleration.

I have one RPW performance accesory and I am quite satisfied.

I would like to inquire about the diferent products that you stock, to increase the performance of my car.

all your advice is welcome

Thank You

Shawn



RPW's Response:
We do manafacture for this a RPW 4-1 race extractors, whic I recomend
Followed by a FSE Fuel pressur regulator and then a RPW 55mm throttle
body upgrade



----- Original Message -----
From: Venum
To: David Thomas
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: performave improvements for a 4G15 DOHC


Mr. Thomas,

Thank you for your response.

Could you supply estimated performance improvements that can be expected with the addition of the quoted performance parts.

please treat my car as stock, if necessary, that is ignore the existing RPW Short Ram intake

please include a link to a catalog if possible

Thank You



RPW's Response:
Usually he package of twin tb, rpw extractors and fuel pressure reg with exhaust will take car up to around 100kw at teh flywheel

I have the RPW parts catalog if any one wants it, just PM me with an e-mail address and I will e-mail it to you

I do not think that I will be interested in sourcing parts from RPW - too much $$$

so going local with this opne, or aftermarket that is not as $$$

[RA40-GTE]

^^ check ur pm buddie

[blazing]

^^ You did the upgrade? ABS in your setup as well? Im interested, what other parts did U have to swap out? Master cylinder or just front spindles and calipers?

yes and yes it has abs. and yes you need a bigger master cylinder.

No ill effects with ABS afterwards?

nope, it works perfectly

BTW, what hole spacing did the spindles come with, 4 x 114? What's the minimum rim clearance needed for the rotors, 15"? We talking new rims if U don't have 8 hole universal?

spindles not changed, only calipers and rotors
4 x 100
you will need at last 15" rims,down to the spare.

[venum]

did a lil looking around for a place to have the extractors made

the most popular place in south - Imraj Bro quoted the following for me:

4-2-1 extractors (1.75") - $800.00
not mandrel bend, but the bends would not have kinks in them

2" downpipe - $800.00
from the end of the manifold to the muffler
inclusive of resonator

free-flow muffler - $800.00
or I can get my own muffler

aluminized pipe

the O2 sensor also gonna be returned to its original position

I asked bout replacing the heat shield

he advised that I remove it to allow better air flow

cuz the heat build up cracks the pipe

I thought that the purpose of the heat shield is to prevent the following:

1. hands touching the hot manifold and resulting injury

2. heat from getting to the radiator

IMHO, not bad for the headder or the muffler

but I think that the down-pipe is a lil high

any opnions?

still have a couple of places to check

[Rudman]

O.K Blazing, where does one look to get a pair of eclipse front rotors, calipers and a master cylinder in Trini? How does the caliper offer up if the spindle is not changed?

The same length of brake lines would work back in the front, or these will have to be changed as well?

[Dave]

again don't make an extractor for this engine
what is the stock style of the manifold
4-2-1 or 4-1

[venum]

Dave,

the stock is a 4-2-1

will post a pic when I can

why not make extractors?

[Dave]

you cannot get a properly made one here esp if not mandrel made
late model cars have pretty good flowing manifolds and thus any made up unit can easily detune the engine
thats good then
wait for it......

[scooby]

what about a chip to boost performance for our engine?

is there any? etc....

[mitsu_crazy]

you cannot get a properly made one here esp if not mandrel made
late model cars have pretty good flowing manifolds and thus any made up unit can easily detune the engine
thats good then
wait for it......

yea d stock mani is 4-2-1 it jus lil small..
if yuh want a lil improvement just go with a larger size exhause from athe flex pipe straight out....

a local made manifold not gonna do much for you..
remember yuh lookin for acceleration not top speed...

so make yuh choices carefully....

btw a bigger t/b won't help much unless u get a better manufactured extractor...
the rpw spec 4-1 is fairly decent and not gonna cause much power loss on low end....

frankly i have not come across anythign else that will compare or provide as much proformance improvements for this particualr engine...without looking too ricey....

honestly....if yuh want some nice improvements.. (n/A) keep the stock manifold and concentrate else where...

look at the piggy back ecu - FPR - fuel pump...one common thing is the 4g15 has a flat spot somewhere around 3k - 4.5k rpm
getting that out alone will bring a significant improvement....


invest in the piggy back ecu first...

and a gearbox....

anythign else after that...look at the fuel system and yuh head......the engine has potential for running some high rpm's ah could tell yuh that from experience.......8k 200km in 4th gear.......shhhhh ah was playing round with ah ecu......

the engine did run a lil lean and had blown d head gasket....

tink d valves was leakin after dat too...hmm not sure...never checked....

but for a kinda weak engine it can put out some decent numbers...

is all about where u start first....

so here was my upgrade path before i sell d car.....

fuel - ignition (rememeber our discussion dave) - cam gears - cams - throttle body - 4 to 1 extractors with a full 2.5 or 3 " exhaust.....ORRRR turbo...

now if i did actually go turbo....

piston & rings - connecting rods - head bolts con rod bolts - bearings - massage d head - vlave springs and retainers - better cams

(extreme) - 4 throttle setup and haltec. - with the turbo kit......was prepared to catch hell to tune it.......but it would of been nice...