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robbierob
 Post subject: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:15 pm 
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hey guys i am thinking to buy a RX 8 any advice ...or for sale at a best price


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:56 pm 
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^^Consider carefully before purchase. A rotary engine is not like a regular engine....but that's the joy of having one (no I don't have one.....yet anyway :lol: ). A simple design, wonderful engineering concept, that's really effective when you come to think of it.....and a unique car IMHO. Some things to consider:

e.g.

1) Earlier models (pre 2006) supposedly are a little more susceptible to flooding (e.g. can happen if you start and then switch off quickly w/o letting the engine heat up to normal op. temp). A flooded engine can hit you suddenly if you don't use due caution, and you have to be familiar with the de-flood procedure from before.

2) Engine will consume oil...part of it's normal working process.

3) Engine is somewhat heavy on gas (something Mazda has been continuously trying to improve on since the 12A).

4) Should only use mineral (dino) oil.....synthetics (except some stuff...Idemitsu?) should not really be used.

5) The automatic versions and 5 speed manuals are "lower" powered, only about 197-200 hp. The 6 speed manual (Type S)gets a major boost to >250 hp (6 port engine), with a rev counter up to 10,000 rpm :shock:

6) Fun car to drive (drove a Type S not too long ago) - well balanced, rides amazingly well over choppy road/bad patchwork compared to other "performance cars". It's a car that just brings one word to mind - "accuracy".

7) Quick cars yes....Type S's even more so......but their forte lies in handling. If you want straight line acceleration, go with something turbo AWD IMHO...Evo? (as most folks want to anyway)

8) As with most performance cars these days, not all parts are always readily available locally (say you're looking for a gasket or something). You may have to source from abroad.



Other than that, I'll let MAZTUNE or Razkal chime in.


:oops:


Last edited by Alpha_2nr on Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acesinghit
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:20 am 
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Knight1, gave a good review but robbierob, if you're considering an RX-8 do not take advice from owners who didn't know how to maintain their car and now have negative things to say about it. Some people feel its another buy and drive and a regular service every so often but having an RX-8 is a more intimate relationship between man and machine. There are countless threads on this forum discussing the RX-8 in great detail and therefore I urge you to do a search. Good luck on the purchase, you won't regret it.


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:23 pm 
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punchin NOS
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the "Mazda" experts staying far from dis ched.........:shock: :shock: :shock:

Quote:
if you're considering an RX-8 do not take advice from owners who didn't know how to maintain their car and now have negative things to say about it. Some people feel its another buy and drive and a regular service every so often but having an RX-8 is a more intimate relationship between man and machine.


Well said dude! Fellas buy this car w/o knowing what's involved, or even understanding the fundamental m'tce differences (e.g. the use of oil, and the type of oil with a Rotary).....and are first to complain about the car when it doesn't work well.

E.g. You should try to stick with the OE filter, or at least the K&N/Atkins/Purolator replacements, as those have the correct OE bypassvalve settings, unlike some of the others out there.

Other than that, as acesing said, be sure to talk to actual owners....and not the dimwits who "does use Mobil in d cyar"!!

The owner should also familiarize himself with rx8club.com.......useful for reviews/advice etc.


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MAZTUNE
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:11 pm 
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well i guess its my turn hehe :D.

I am going to give you a little insight into the renesis engine itself. This new design uses side exhaust ports instead of on the rotor housing, the main reason being the apex seal used to wear at the exhaust port deminishing life of the seal, so side porting means less wear, longer life. The drawback is smaller porting so less power, but more reliable. As mentioned before my Knight1, the Type S is the better model with the 6-port engine, but it's also more expensive so it depends on your budget. The Type E is fair in terms of perfromance, still has some punch as I recently ran with a Type E AUTO in the last ROTARI club run and i was truly impressed. The guy had a cold air intake upgraded exhaust and suspension. very very nice!

Some problems that I got calls for with the RX-8 is models earlier than 2005 has an oil metering pump failure, so I advise to get later models or be prepared to spend some money in upgraded the pump to a newer model. When it fails it sends the ECU into safe mode and the car will be DEAD due to retarded timing.

Also the electric P/S pump tends to may fail leaving you with no steering, one thing i hated Mazda for introducing.

As for parts, I am trying to get at least a Type E front clip and rear parts for in my next shipment early next year. Type S would be grand, but body parts are needed more than anything right now.

overall after that it's general rotary maintenance, as Knight1 mentioned, if you should be fine.


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:40 pm 
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punchin NOS
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Ah so he chimes in finally!!! 8)

Quote:
The drawback is smaller porting so less power, but more reliable.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, of all the N/A 13B powered cars, the RX8 - S has the highest specific highest output in stock form? Of course, I'm comparing to the 2nd gen 13B-DEI and the later >'89 models (13B-RE?). Can't recall the figures, but those were like in the sub 180 hp range :? At 250 hp for the JDM 6 port, that MSP is just 30 short of the twin boosted REW?

Also, w.r.t small ports...are you referring to intake or exhaust? According to the blurb I got from a local mech in south.....the intake ports on the MSP-6 port are almost too large.....heavy porting (think along the lines of a bridge port) is almost impossible w/o going into J-bridge territory, as the port is that close to the water jacket.

Welll......again......that last one is based on what a local mech. told me after I was harassing him about a cracked open 6 port engine.....but as I said....I never owned a rotary..... :lol:


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acesinghit
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:54 pm 
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I see Mazda has the 6 port twin rotor available for the automatic RX8's now, where the 4-speed paddle shift was upgraded to 6-speed paddle shift. The specs are lower across the board in both manual and automatic trim now.

231Ps / 228-232HP / 170kW @ 8200rpm (manual)
215Ps / 212HP / 158kW @ 7500rpm (automatic)
211-215Nm / 156-159ft-lbs @ 5500rpm (both)

kerb weight grew as well: 1402kg (auto) /1412kg (manual)

While these specs are not blood warming it actually competes directly with the Honda Integra Type R (DC5) performance wise. I've read that the RX8 could reach 60mph in as low as 5.8s to a high of 6.4s for the manual version and achieve a 1/4 mile high of 14.5s but usually around 15s.

For such a grown up rotary powered vehicle that is heavy and lacking forced induction I say the performance is right-on! The hallmark of the RX8 lies not in its straight-line peformance but its overall balance due to a lower center of gravity of the rotary design, excellent gearbox and fade free brakes. Yes the EPAS system is not what we would have liked but it seems thats where all cars are going now.

Two major Mazda tuners: Racing Beat and Mazdatrix have excellent high quality upgrades for I/H/E and PCM for enhanced NA performance. As a very underestimated sports coupe I sure would like to see some local 8's surprising many on this forum.

I too intend to be part of this one day soon.


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:58 pm 
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punchin NOS
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Quote:
231Ps / 228-232HP / 170kW @ 8200rpm (manual)
215Ps / 212HP / 158kW @ 7500rpm (automatic)
211-215Nm / 156-159ft-lbs @ 5500rpm (both)


US specs.

The JDM 6 port runs different mapping to the US cars (updated power specs were quoted on the rev 2 ECU flash in the US market), and is rated 246-250 hp. Also, the redline in the JDM car starts at 9K rpm (well....based on the car I drove anyway...I think the rpm warning range came in aroun 8500 rpm or something), as opposed to the 8200 rpm in the US spec car. I could be wrong though.....it was a brief visit in that machine :oops:



Quote:
While these specs are not blood warming it actually competes directly with the
Honda Integra Type R (DC5) performance wise.


I wouldn't go that far......those cars have a p/w advantage, and that's compared to a Type S. Anything less (Type E, std etc)... :lol:


Last edited by Alpha_2nr on Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acesinghit
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:23 pm 
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^^^ :D

you sure about the DC5 comparison? I know its alot lighter but I dunno how powerful that K20A is compared to the 8 :oops: I don't even have a youtube vid to post as well.

The specs I got is consistent with New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, UK, Canada and US models so you're right, the JDM specs could be higher.

*****going to the JDM website to see if I could pull up some specs*****


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MAZTUNE
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Knight1 wrote:
Ah so he chimes in finally!!! 8)

Quote:
The drawback is smaller porting so less power, but more reliable.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, of all the N/A 13B powered cars, the RX8 - S has the highest specific highest output in stock form? Of course, I'm comparing to the 2nd gen 13B-DEI and the later >'89 models (13B-RE?). Can't recall the figures, but those were like in the sub 180 hp range :? At 250 hp for the JDM 6 port, that MSP is just 30 short of the twin boosted REW?

Also, w.r.t small ports...are you referring to intake or exhaust? According to the blurb I got from a local mech in south.....the intake ports on the MSP-6 port are almost too large.....heavy porting (think along the lines of a bridge port) is almost impossible w/o going into J-bridge territory, as the port is that close to the water jacket.

Welll......again......that last one is based on what a local mech. told me after I was harassing him about a cracked open 6 port engine.....but as I said....I never owned a rotary..... :lol:


sorry was comparing to the 13B-REW FD3S motor, should have mentioned that or keep it NA form for comparison.


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LEVIAHAN
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:44 pm 
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as robbierob first posted...what is a good price for a rx8??? :?:


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kali
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:12 am 
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what you looking for brother. i have an automatic for sale. (e-type). very attractive car. new rims and tyres, small mods, basically stock though. asking 145k(neg)tranfer included and i can hook you up with insurance if you need it. call me at 3060666 if you interested pal.


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:35 am 
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punchin NOS
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LEVIAHAN wrote:
as robbierob first posted...what is a good price for a rx8??? :?:



Depends on what model you're looking for.....and are you buying it "locally" used, or RORO.

You'd pay more RORO obviously, and as MAZTUNE rightly said, the Type S is significantly more expensive than the E or base model cars...so be forewarned.


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LEVIAHAN
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:57 am 
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Knight1,
Thanks bro, u deserve ah double
:bump: :bump:


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LEVIAHAN
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:50 am 
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I am also interested like robbierob, for a rx8. I have the cash so looking for type e around 130g 2006


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:45 pm 
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punchin NOS
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:drinking:


Last edited by Alpha_2nr on Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LEVIAHAN
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Knight1 wrote:
^^Saw a base model auto/base model manual (5 MT) going for that price....2004's and 5's though. Neither have LSD's or the upgraded "frame" :(

Type E's might be a bit more......might be able to get one @ that price....but beware. Folks ahve been selling their cars after abusing the engine/flooding/not topping up oil/using synth oil etc etc

I've seen 8's being sold really cheap, only because the owners had issues with the cars (or thought they did).

Keep in mind the earlier models had some issues with flooding.


Indeed, especially the models prior to 2005/2006. I know someone who had flodding problems with type e 2004 and sold it cheap.
Thanks for the reply
:bump: :bump:


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kali
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:46 pm 
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what you looking for brother. i have an automatic for sale. (e-type). very attractive car. new rims and tyres, small mods, basically stock though. asking 145k(neg)tranfer included and i can hook you up with insurance if you need it. call me at 3060666 if you interested pal.


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acesinghit
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:42 am 
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Knight1,

I visted the Mazda JDM website and got these JDM specific specifications for the RX-8 line-up which has 6-port design for automatics standard now.

Power
158kW / 215Ps / 212HP @ 7450 rpm (6-speed automatic Type-G, Type-E)
173kW / 235Ps / 232HP @ 8200 rpm (6-speed manual Type-S, Type-RS)

Torque
216Nm / 159ft-lbs / 22.0 kg-m @ 5500 rpm (both)

kerb weight: 1360kg (auto), 1350kg (man)


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zabocar
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Mate check this out...it might help you....i loved this review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRiPSlx8PxA


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LEVIAHAN
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Yeah zabocar, but the last 10 secs of the video was just LOL


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:07 pm 
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acesinghit wrote:
Knight1,

I visted the Mazda JDM website and got these JDM specific specifications for the RX-8 line-up which has 6-port design for automatics standard now.

Power
158kW / 215Ps / 212HP @ 7450 rpm (6-speed automatic Type-G, Type-E)
173kW / 235Ps / 232HP @ 8200 rpm (6-speed manual Type-S, Type-RS)

Torque
216Nm / 159ft-lbs / 22.0 kg-m @ 5500 rpm (both)

kerb weight: 1360kg (auto), 1350kg (man)


Meh. Might be right :lol: I remember coming across a vid where they list the Type S at 250 PS....which is around 247 hp.


Either way, it's a good thing I guess that Mazda decided to use the 6 port on the autos as well.....the 212 hp is better than the 197 on the 4 port
:( :D


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Rainman
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:42 am 
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Thought about buying the type S, but i need to do a LOT of reading before i consider it. I can prolly do most of the maintenance myself but i've never owned a rotary before. Good info in this thread


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geodude
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:46 pm 
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dudes maybe you could shead some light here,
i was wondering,
ok so i know that there is a small HP difference between the manual and Automaitc ( tiptronic with paddle shifters), what i want to know is how does the automatic compare to the Tiptronic model, in terms of performace ( driving experieice, is it as much fun as the manual) if its just the HP difference then a few simple upgrades and the Tip could be running the same or higher HP than the manual.

so anyone care to compare, and if i had intentions for making it sneeze then which would be the better option , automatic or Manual.


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acesinghit
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:14 pm 
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geodude wrote:
dudes maybe you could shead some light here,
i was wondering,
ok so i know that there is a small HP difference between the manual and Automaitc ( tiptronic with paddle shifters), what i want to know is how does the automatic compare to the Tiptronic model, in terms of performace ( driving experieice, is it as much fun as the manual) if its just the HP difference then a few simple upgrades and the Tip could be running the same or higher HP than the manual.

so anyone care to compare, and if i had intentions for making it sneeze then which would be the better option , automatic or Manual.


ok what you need to know is that there is a big difference between automatic and manual RX-8's. Manuals can hit 60mph in as low as 5.8/5.9 to as high as 6.3s with 1/4 times between 14.5-15s and automatic versions can hit 60 in under 8s with 1/4 mile speed around 16s with proper drivers and proper shifting ofcourse.

If you're considering the auto 8 then try not to run your typical SiR Civic :lol: If you see an Altezza then you could take the chance. One thing though, if you do decide to get it, lose those 16" and or 17" rims and upgrade to 18's on stickier tyres. It improves confidence.

Boosting autos is not an option for me and most of the members of this forum. Mazda's autos despite being Aisin made can't handle the increased torque. AFAIK all the kits designed for the 8 are for the manual version and fuel economy drops to single digits mpg :lol:


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:33 pm 
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punchin NOS
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Quote:
ok so i know that there is a small HP difference between the manual and Automaitc ( tiptronic with paddle shifters), what i want to know is how does the automatic compare to the Tiptronic model, in terms of performace ( driving experieice, is it as much fun as the manual) if its just the HP difference then a few simple upgrades and the Tip could be running the same or higher HP than the manual.


First off AUTOMATIC = TIPTRONIC

MANUAL = 6 speed or 5 speed manual

5 speed manual / 4 speed automatic = "low hp" 4 port engine

6 speed manual = Type S = "high hp" 6 port engine w/ 9k rpm redline

The 5 speed manual and Auto/tiptronic cars are really a step down compared to the 6 speed Type S...and 46-50 hp is ALOT of difference.


So even if you bought the "5 speed manual", you'd still be no better than having bought a base model automatic.


As for "boosting" the hp of the auto...good luck with that. The very engine between the 5 speed manual/std auto and the 6 speed Type S is different.....larger ports on the Type S, different ecu tuning, injectors (supposedly), intake (Type S has the dynamic "dual" intake), higher rev limit on the S etc etc.

For you to get the kind of hp from an auto, that you find stock in a Type S, you'd have to do some ecu tweaking, porting of the engine, intake upgrade etc etc etc. Mondo cost...and you still won't have an actual Type S, as the base RX8 doesn't have the additional chassis tweaks, foam inserts in the frames, or even a rear LSD (unless it's a Type E auto you get).

Quote:
so anyone care to compare, and if i had intentions for making it sneeze then which would be the better option , automatic or Manual.


On our gas, "turboing" the RX8 is risky business due to high compression, unless you do work on the rotors themselves to lower that compression.




No offense geodude, but it sounds like you're applying the typical 'tuner syndrome to this scenario........

e.g. some TS owners = well ah go buy d 1.6 Suby eh....ah know eeet slow eh....but ah go drop eeeen a tobo engine later nah. So it go be fassup nah.


etc
etc.


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acesinghit
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:52 pm 
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even on the Type S I won't recommend turbo to increase power as it would require a change of the rotors and that is $$$$. Standard tune + 6psi = waste IMHO. Some I/H/E/PCM mods would allow you to shift in the sweet spots without having to change to an after-market clutch. Shift shock cuts vital seconds in the turbo.


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Alpha_2nr
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:54 pm 
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punchin NOS
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Quote:
even on the Type S I won't recommend turbo to increase power as it would require a change of the rotors and that is $$$$. Standard tune + 6psi = waste IMHO. Some I/H/E/PCM mods would allow you to shift in the sweet spots without having to change to an after-market clutch. Shift shock cuts vital seconds in the turbo.


I'd say E/H and PCM mods first. the stock S intake is hard to improve on IMHO.

AS for the clutch....well.... :lol:


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geodude
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:17 pm 
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good info guys and very quickly too,
well thing is i was poking around rx8club.com and they made it seem like it was easy to get extra HP without going into the engine, such as changing the size of the exhaust, and other things,
i am thinking about buying an rx 8 and i have my eye on 2 one of which is 2005 tip with paddle shifters and the other is 2007 manual and both are basically the same price range and have the same milage, however the 2005 is has a few goodies so i was trying to make up my mind.


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acesinghit
 Post subject: Re: RX 8
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:29 pm 
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^dude get the manual, if you like auto then you might as well go all the way out and see if you can select one with the extra goodies like Bose audio, sunroof, xenon head lights, leather seats, power seat, 18" rims, fogs, spoiler, steering wheel audio and cruise blah blah blah.

Go brave it'll be the most fun you will have since obtaining your first bmx bike.


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