The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

^ yes, clear thinking faculties are important

X2. Well said. But "Rationalists" like Duane and others will continue to tell you that we evolved over time to become what we are and God has nothing to do with it.

how am I a rationalist? I still like to see evidence instead of just using reasoning alone to prove something.

I think it is important to balance reasoning with evidence, logic with fact.

The evidence is all around you.

like saying rainbows are evidence for a pot of gold?

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ yes, clear thinking faculties are important

X2. Well said. But "Rationalists" like Duane and others will continue to tell you that we evolved over time to become what we are and God has nothing to do with it.

how am I a rationalist? I still like to see evidence instead of just using reasoning alone to prove something.

I think it is important to balance reasoning with evidence, logic with fact.

The evidence is all around you.

like saying rainbows are evidence for a pot of gold?

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

I totally agree!

[bluefete]

Well I am not going to delve into your studying of the bible,if you said you did you did.At various time God spoke to made directly,via the burning bush etc, there were also prophets which communicated God's will to man. The Holy Spirit has works on the heart and minds of men convicting them of sin.The was also the sanctuary service which made man allowance for sin and through faith in the coming messiah and repentance/obedience they will be covered by the blood.Jesus replaced the sanctuary service when he died. The bible also says in the time of ignorance God winks but when knowledge comes to him,man is held responsible.
I am going out on a limb here thinking you to be sincere in your question.If you are trolling however,this will be my first and last response. Be blessed man.

Bizzare is kinda like a troll now because he read and had faith, still has faith, in the bible...yet the Holy Spirit rejected him, so his feelings are hurt...really hurt...or maybe not. Maybe he sees things like I do, like how ridiculous some of the bible concepts are, like the holy spirit, Jesus and GOD being all the same GOD but different persons, not equal, independent of each other, depending of each other sometimes, etc.

Jesus did not teach us to pray to Him. The prayer he gave begins with "Our Father".

Jesus also got up very early in the morning to pray to His and Our Father.

When Jesus was on earth the Holy Spirit was with Him and could not be anywhere else. When he went back to heaven, he sent the Holy Spirit to bless his disciples.

[bluefete]

^ yes, clear thinking faculties are important

X2. Well said. But "Rationalists" like Duane and others will continue to tell you that we evolved over time to become what we are and God has nothing to do with it.

how am I a rationalist? I still like to see evidence instead of just using reasoning alone to prove something.

I think it is important to balance reasoning with evidence, logic with fact.

The evidence is all around you.

like saying rainbows are evidence for a pot of gold?

There is none so blind as those who will not see.

I totally agree!

TOUCHÉ.

[bluefete]

The bible clearly states that the only way to heaven is through repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ and since God does not compromise nor does he change, a newborn is destined to hell unless he or she does the former, no? One is sinful from the minute he/she is born whether he/she has committed a sinful act or not, according to the bible. What about a mentally challenged person who isn't able to consciously repent and accept Jesus Christ?

one is born innocent. this world changes you. also as a child u are much closer to the spirit. it is no comparison to the life of a 50 yr old adult who has undoubtly accumulated possibly billions or trillions of sins. rejected his conscience on numerous occassions or quite possibly seared it completely.

a mentally challenged person would most likely equate to a saint in spiritual rank. their thoughts may remain pure their entire life.

what about Original Sin?

http://carm.org/questions/about-doctrin ... iginal-sin

http://www.theopedia.com/Original_sin
Original sin is the doctrine which holds that human nature has been morally and ethically corrupted due to the disobedience of mankind's first parents to the revealed will of God. In the Bible, the first human transgression of God's command is described as the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden resulting in what theology calls the Fall of mankind. The doctrine of original sin holds that every person born into the world is tainted by the Fall such that all of humanity is ethically debilitated, and people are powerless to rehabilitate themselves, unless rescued by God.

[TTCP]

So you believe in part of the bible?

You confusing me. How could someone come to die for us, yet remain alive in some fashion?

Is either yuh dead or yuh livin. There is no neutral ground dey bro. I cyah accept that level of stupidity as my own.

You makin out god to be a liar then.

People does actually analyze d BS dey being taught ?

Meen feel so. Bcuz d only ting dat add up to me in ur response dey adamb is 1+1=2.

u have the general materialistic point of view. to be living does not denote the mandatory requirement to have a physical body to exist in this universe or others.

we are facing 2 deaths in this life.. physical death(ego death) and spiritual death. we are warned on how to cultivate our spirit so that it will not die. if that dies.. that is when u really dead.

and my response was actually to adamb's last comment which u quoted.

[marlener]

TTCP you will need to explain your following statement because I don't agree but wish to hear your explaination: ensure that your good deeds outweigh your sins by as much as possible in this life. all of us will have sin. but some of us will still be saved with that sin. before, u didnt have a chance unless God took a liking to you. which he probably wouldve done since before u were born, knowing the life choices u would make etc.

[TTCP]

Well I am not going to delve into your studying of the bible,if you said you did you did.At various time God spoke to made directly,via the burning bush etc, there were also prophets which communicated God's will to man. The Holy Spirit has works on the heart and minds of men convicting them of sin.The was also the sanctuary service which made man allowance for sin and through faith in the coming messiah and repentance/obedience they will be covered by the blood.Jesus replaced the sanctuary service when he died. The bible also says in the time of ignorance God winks but when knowledge comes to him,man is held responsible.
I am going out on a limb here thinking you to be sincere in your question.If you are trolling however,this will be my first and last response. Be blessed man.

Bizzare is kinda like a troll now because he read and had faith, still has faith, in the bible...yet the Holy Spirit rejected him, so his feelings are hurt...really hurt...or maybe not. Maybe he sees things like I do, like how ridiculous some of the bible concepts are, like the holy spirit, Jesus and GOD being all the same GOD but different persons, not equal, independent of each other, depending of each other sometimes, etc.

Jesus did not teach us to pray to Him. The prayer he gave begins with "Our Father".

Jesus also got up very early in the morning to pray to His and Our Father.

When Jesus was on earth the Holy Spirit was with Him and could not be anywhere else. When he went back to heaven, he sent the Holy Spirit to bless his disciples.

well explicated!

[bluefete]

Jesus never died because he was always alive in the spirit. still living and conscious. but his body was indeed strung up and hung out to dry.

HUH????? But when Jesus died he said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit".

[i am an idiot]

Boi it have so much wrong with wat u tryna make me understand. But it not logical. Daiz all i saying. I won't take your stance unless it makes sense to me. Not to an imam, a pastor or a pundit, but me, yuh follow me. I have clear thinking faculties, i know how i function and feel as a human being. I feel my username decieving you like the people who teaching you what u believe.

[TTCP]

Jesus never died because he was always alive in the spirit. still living and conscious. but his body was indeed strung up and hung out to dry.

HUH????? But when Jesus died he said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit".

what is the problem? his body died. his spirit did not. i.e he didnt die because his spirit didnt die. u all not reading my posts u know.

[TTCP]

Boi it have so much wrong with wat u tryna make me understand. But it not logical. Daiz all i saying. I won't take your stance unless it makes sense to me. Not to an imam, a pastor or a pundit, but me, yuh follow me. I have clear thinking faculties, i know how i function and feel as a human being. I feel my username decieving you like the people who teaching you what u believe.

me i steer away from judging as much as possible. including a book by its cover. there is nothing very difficult to understand in what im saying.

the books say that men found God and wrote about it and they say that God say, he want us to praise him, live a life of compassion and empathy as our way of service to him, and pray(meditate). and if we do that we will live forever in spirit form. maintaining our identity basically.

that is what too hard for all of us to DO.. not understand.. cuz i think everyone understand very well. to do it is the hard part.

[marlener]

Now this here goes back to an earlier discussion that Megadoc and I had concerning the state of the dead,we both had different opinions on the matter.I still maintain as the bible says that the body goes back to the dust and the breath goes back to God which giveth it,I do not support the school of thought that says that the spirit it floating around aware of it's surroundings influencing the daily activities of man.

[bluefete]

Now this here goes back to an earlier discussion that Megadoc and I had concerning the state of the dead,we both had different opinions on the matter.I still maintain as the bible says that the body goes back to the dust and the breath goes back to God which giveth it,I do not support the school of thought that says that the spirit it floating around aware of it's surroundings influencing the daily activities of man.

I second this!!

[i am an idiot]

Jesus never died because he was always alive in the spirit. still living and conscious. but his body was indeed strung up and hung out to dry.

HUH????? But when Jesus died he said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit".

what is the problem? his body died. his spirit did not. i.e he didnt die because his spirit didnt die. u all not reading my posts u know.

Dat make any sense to u as a human?

If i as god send my son to sacrifice his life for u, wat sense would it make if he did not die?
I as god would be lying.
Jesus died. Just like we do. Completely dead.

Basically u saying jesus did not die for our sins.

Because if u alive somewhere in some fashion you are not dead.

Make sense? Or u have more nonsense to counteract?

I starting to think, u not thinking logically inno mr TTCP.

[TTCP]

Jesus never died because he was always alive in the spirit. still living and conscious. but his body was indeed strung up and hung out to dry.

HUH????? But when Jesus died he said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit".

what is the problem? his body died. his spirit did not. i.e he didnt die because his spirit didnt die. u all not reading my posts u know.

Dat make any sense to u as a human?

If i as god send my son to sacrifice his life for u, wat sense would it make if he did not die?
I as god would be lying.
Jesus died. Just like we do. Completely dead.

Basically u saying jesus did not die for our sins.

Because if u alive somewhere in some fashion you are not dead.

Make sense? Or u have more nonsense to counteract?

I starting to think, u not thinking logically inno mr TTCP.

those who killed him, like you believed in the flesh. the objective was simply to have the first man be born to earth that would walk the path of righteousness and ascend into heaven.. thereby creating a way that we can follow. God first conceived Christ in Spirit and then implanted him in the womb of the righteous Mary. u understand? a spirit came from heaven to earth and ascended back up again through the process of ego death. creating a link/bridge between heaven and earth that we can all cross if we choose to take up the test.

God's Son walking this path for us because we couldnt do it ourselves atones for the sins of billions of us.

[marlener]

Care to share your source bro because it surely not biblical,each time you post it seems you are going further and further from what the bible teaches. If what you are saying is simply your opinion then I will understand.

[i am an idiot]

Care to share your source bro because it surely not biblical,each time you post it seems you are going further and further from what the bible teaches. If what you are saying is simply your opinion then I will understand.

X2

I gettin exhausted readin so much nonsense in one day.

[TTCP]

Care to share your source bro because it surely not biblical,each time you post it seems you are going further and further from what the bible teaches. If what you are saying is simply your opinion then I will understand.

did you read your bible? or are u taking the opinions and perceptions that are commonly accepted by the general public? what i say comes straight out of the bible and it's source the true ancient teaching which perfectly coincide.

read the story of Abraham and you will see what earned us the right for a human woman, a descendant of Abraham to bear the Son of God who was sent as a sacrifice.. for us!

[i am an idiot]

Care to share your source bro because it surely not biblical,each time you post it seems you are going further and further from what the bible teaches. If what you are saying is simply your opinion then I will understand.

did you read your bible? or are u taking the opinions and perceptions that are commonly accepted by the general public? what i say comes straight out of the bible and it's source the true ancient teaching which perfectly coincide.

read the story of Abraham and you will see what earned us the right for a human woman, a descendant of Abraham to bear the Son of God who was sent as a sacrifice.. for us!

But ent u just say d man din dead boi. I fedup talk proper. Wah sacrifice u talkin bout? You ah top spinnin in mud orrrrr?

[TTCP]

Care to share your source bro because it surely not biblical,each time you post it seems you are going further and further from what the bible teaches. If what you are saying is simply your opinion then I will understand.

did you read your bible? or are u taking the opinions and perceptions that are commonly accepted by the general public? what i say comes straight out of the bible and it's source the true ancient teaching which perfectly coincide.

read the story of Abraham and you will see what earned us the right for a human woman, a descendant of Abraham to bear the Son of God who was sent as a sacrifice.. for us!

But ent u just say d man din dead boi. I fedup talk proper. Wah sacrifice u talkin bout? You ah top spinnin in mud orrrrr?

like u cant understand english? read my earlier post. i said he died in flesh.. NOT in SPIRIT. He did not sacrifice his spirit, only his flesh! if that is illogical for u then it is simple. ur heart is hardened by God.

[TTCP]

pray to God bro. ask God to help u find the truth. you turn your back on God and he will turn his back on you. we should be more apreciative of what we have been given. and not attribute to anything except it's creator.

the choice is all yours. free will and all. ive already told u all that is said to be required.

read your bible.

[i am an idiot]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

[bluefete]

When Jesus died:

The GOSPEL of NICODEMUS, formerly called the ACTS of PONTIUS PILATE.
The Gospel of NICODEMUS the disciple, concerning the Sufferings and Resurrection of our Master and Saviour JESUS CHRIST.

CHAP. XIII.

1 The narrative of Charinus and Lenthius commences. 3 A great light in hell. 7 Simeon arrives, and announces the coming of Christ.

O LORD Jesus and Father, who art God, also the resurrection and life of the dead, give us leave to declare thy mysteries, which we saw after death, belonging to thy cross; for we are sworn by thy name.

2 For thou hast forbid thy servants to declare the secret things, which were wrought by thy divine power in hell.

3 ¶ When we were placed with our fathers in the depth of hell, in the blackness of darkness, on a sudden there appeared the colour of the sun like gold, and a substantial purple-coloured light enlightening the place.

4 Presently upon this, Adam, the father of all mankind, with all the patriarchs and prophets, rejoiced and said, That light is the author of everlasting light, who hath promised to translate us to everlasting light.

5 Then Isaiah the prophet cried out, and said, 1 This is the light of the Father, and the Son of God, according to my prophecy, when I was alive upon earth.

6 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim beyond Jordan, a people who walked in darkness, saw a great light; and to them who dwelled in the region of the shadow of death, light is arisen. And now he is come, and hath enlightened us who sat in death.

7 And while we were all rejoicing in the light which shone upon us, our father Simeon came among us, and congratulating all the company, said, Glorify the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God.

8 Whom I took up in my arms when an infant in the temple, and being moved by the Holy Ghost, said to him, and acknowledged, 1 That now mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people, a light to enlighten the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel.

9 All the saints who were in the depth of hell, hearing this, rejoiced the more.

10 Afterwards there came forth one like a little hermit, and was asked by every one, Who art thou?

11 To which he replied, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, John the Baptist, and the prophet of the Most High, who went before his coming to prepare his way, to give the knowledge of salvation to his people for the forgiveness of sins.

12 And I John, when I saw Jesus coming to me, being moved by the Holy Ghost, I said, Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world.

13 And I baptized him in the river Jordan, and saw the Holy Ghost descending upon him in the form of a dove, and heard a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

14 And now while I was going before him, I came down hither to acquaint you, that the Son of God will next visit us, and, as the day-spring from on high, will come to us, who are in darkness and the shadow of death.

[bluefete]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

Abraham was faithful and God did ask him to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham was tested by God as a precursor to God sending his son Jesus to die for our sins.

[i am an idiot]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

Abraham was faithful and God did ask him to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham was tested by God as a precursor to God sending his son Jesus to die for our sins.

Dat question was for ttcp. But i know about abraham and isaac. I just showing him that god sent jesus because he chose a perfect life as a sacrifice. Not a body.

[TTCP]

When Jesus died:

The GOSPEL of NICODEMUS, formerly called the ACTS of PONTIUS PILATE.
The Gospel of NICODEMUS the disciple, concerning the Sufferings and Resurrection of our Master and Saviour JESUS CHRIST.

CHAP. XIII.

1 The narrative of Charinus and Lenthius commences. 3 A great light in hell. 7 Simeon arrives, and announces the coming of Christ.

O LORD Jesus and Father, who art God, also the resurrection and life of the dead, give us leave to declare thy mysteries, which we saw after death, belonging to thy cross; for we are sworn by thy name.

2 For thou hast forbid thy servants to declare the secret things, which were wrought by thy divine power in hell.

3 ¶ When we were placed with our fathers in the depth of hell, in the blackness of darkness, on a sudden there appeared the colour of the sun like gold, and a substantial purple-coloured light enlightening the place.

4 Presently upon this, Adam, the father of all mankind, with all the patriarchs and prophets, rejoiced and said, That light is the author of everlasting light, who hath promised to translate us to everlasting light.

5 Then Isaiah the prophet cried out, and said, 1 This is the light of the Father, and the Son of God, according to my prophecy, when I was alive upon earth.

6 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim beyond Jordan, a people who walked in darkness, saw a great light; and to them who dwelled in the region of the shadow of death, light is arisen. And now he is come, and hath enlightened us who sat in death.

7 And while we were all rejoicing in the light which shone upon us, our father Simeon came among us, and congratulating all the company, said, Glorify the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God.

8 Whom I took up in my arms when an infant in the temple, and being moved by the Holy Ghost, said to him, and acknowledged, 1 That now mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people, a light to enlighten the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Israel.

9 All the saints who were in the depth of hell, hearing this, rejoiced the more.

10 Afterwards there came forth one like a little hermit, and was asked by every one, Who art thou?

11 To which he replied, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, John the Baptist, and the prophet of the Most High, who went before his coming to prepare his way, to give the knowledge of salvation to his people for the forgiveness of sins.

12 And I John, when I saw Jesus coming to me, being moved by the Holy Ghost, I said, Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who takes away the sins of the world.

13 And I baptized him in the river Jordan, and saw the Holy Ghost descending upon him in the form of a dove, and heard a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

14 And now while I was going before him, I came down hither to acquaint you, that the Son of God will next visit us, and, as the day-spring from on high, will come to us, who are in darkness and the shadow of death.

if that purple light does not symbolize the 7th chakra of spiritual realization, i dont know what does. i tell allyuh i crack this thing inno. dun talk serious. on to the 9th chakra for the i.

[TTCP]

solved the whole fugging thing. all the religions of the earth. the ancient teachings and the tribes.

[AdamB]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

Abraham was faithful and God did ask him to sacrifice his son Isaac. Abraham was tested by God as a precursor to God sending his son Jesus to die for our sins.

Wrong again, it was his only son at the time, Ishmael.

Also, was Jesus a perfect man or son of GOD?

[TTCP]

He sacrificed his life, if god just wanted a sacrificial body, why not ask abraham? Wasn't he faithful?
Jesus did not have to come here and die to create a passage from here to heaven. You think god could not have just allowed us to come?
We not supposed to go there anyway. What is the earth some kinda testing ground? Not logical.

God sent him because adam was perfect and he sinned. Jesus came to prove that a perfect man could live and remain faithful til death under trials. Hence a perfect life was sacrificed for all imperfect humans.

Lemme ask u something.
Do muslims believe zecariah wrote the bible?

And do muslims believe in the entire bible or part?

nonsense. Abraham was a man born in sin in those times. there was no redemption for all souls then. he lived a good life in obedience to God and gained favour. he was then tested for the sake of all humanity. he passed that test. which no other could.

Jesus is the sinless one. born perfect in spirit. there is no comparison. Abraham's death would not atone for as many souls as the Son of God.

yes.. this is a testing ground.

u are given a little bit of power and God pretends he is not here to see what you will do given power. God is watching. you may perform as much wickedness to others and all is noted. when you die you will be judged. however, the more intelligent ones, will figure out how to achieve ego death in this life, and be assured eternal life before the end of their life span alottment.