TriniTuner.com | Latest Event:
Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods
No dear,AbstractPoetic wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:No dear, there is a technical difference between martial law and a state of emergency. In the former, the entire government is overthrown and replaced with a caretaker (and temporary) government, usually the head of the military. In the latter, the government is simply authorized to do more things than before.AbstractPoetic wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:you try again, exactly where in that document has the words "martial law"?
re-read the definition of martial law. We are NOT currently under military rule; we are STILL under the rule of our democratic leaders who were voted in by the people.
Duane, I don't know what to tell you. The fact that law enforcement can come raid your place without warrant or put two bullet in your head for violating a curfew sounds constitutional to you, I'd imagine?
You do understand that the imposition of martial law accompanies curfews, the suspension of civil law, civil rights, habeas corpus, and/or can include the application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians? Not all components NEED to be in place for martial law to take effect, however, on the basis of what is presented and enforced in the Emergency Powers Regulations of TT, it fits the bill. Also, perhaps you can check back in the history books of Trinidad in the 1970s when martial law took effect. Not much difference then.
so as I said before, we are NOT currently under military rule and not under martial law; we are STILL under the rule of our democratic leaders who were voted in by the people.
Then it is safe to assume you are of the opinion that your and other residents of TT constitutional rights are the same as it was prior to the SoE?
and I said martial law is different from a SOE and I showed you how they were differentAbstractPoetic wrote:So technically, Trinidad and Tobago is under Martial Law following declaration of state of emergency?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:No dear,AbstractPoetic wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:No dear, there is a technical difference between martial law and a state of emergency. In the former, the entire government is overthrown and replaced with a caretaker (and temporary) government, usually the head of the military. In the latter, the government is simply authorized to do more things than before.AbstractPoetic wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:you try again, exactly where in that document has the words "martial law"?
re-read the definition of martial law. We are NOT currently under military rule; we are STILL under the rule of our democratic leaders who were voted in by the people.
Duane, I don't know what to tell you. The fact that law enforcement can come raid your place without warrant or put two bullet in your head for violating a curfew sounds constitutional to you, I'd imagine?
You do understand that the imposition of martial law accompanies curfews, the suspension of civil law, civil rights, habeas corpus, and/or can include the application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians? Not all components NEED to be in place for martial law to take effect, however, on the basis of what is presented and enforced in the Emergency Powers Regulations of TT, it fits the bill. Also, perhaps you can check back in the history books of Trinidad in the 1970s when martial law took effect. Not much difference then.
so as I said before, we are NOT currently under military rule and not under martial law; we are STILL under the rule of our democratic leaders who were voted in by the people.
Then it is safe to assume you are of the opinion that your and other residents of TT constitutional rights are the same as it was prior to the SoE?
You askedand I said martial law is different from a SOE and I showed you how they were differentAbstractPoetic wrote:So technically, Trinidad and Tobago is under Martial Law following declaration of state of emergency?
YES our constitutional rights have been curtailed by the SOE, but we are NOT under martial law!!!
Is it really that difficult to understand?
the fact that bluefete agrees with you is absolute proof that you are wrong lol
but there is nothing to agree or disagree with!bluefete wrote:Errmm, boss, I was not agreeing with her martial law concept. I was agreeing with the suspension of some of our civil liberties.
AbstractPoetic wrote:rfari wrote::|
All I'll say is...all these random arrests in the ghettoes, seizure of ammunition (8 thus far), curfews and the whole bit is all a circus performance. Unfortunately you and your civil liberties were taken away for the pappy show.
If folks cannot see the bigger picture here, I don't know what to tell you.
Stephon. wrote:bluefete wrote:Stephon. wrote:AbstractPoetic wrote:rfari wrote::|
All I'll say is...all these random arrests in the ghettoes,
Makes my heart smile
So Stephon: The big shot, respectable, business men and women who living by you and responsible for financing the cocaine and guns that the boys and girls in the "ghettoes" using,and also for financing the PP and PNM, must continue living like normal.
IMO, this curfew should deal with BOTH the financiers and the pushers.
I'm not going to comment on something that is just he say she say BS.
thank you! AP obviously not reading my posts, hopefully she will read yours!bluespeed wrote:do you guys even know what is martial Law?.....we are no way near that type of situation!
and trust me ppl....... you guys cannot even begin to think how that would be!
rfari wrote:ole soldier, how ting looking out dey?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:thank you! AP obviously not reading my posts, hopefully she will read yours!bluespeed wrote:do you guys even know what is martial Law?.....we are no way near that type of situation!
and trust me ppl....... you guys cannot even begin to think how that would be!
could they have been apprehended without the SOE?bluespeed wrote:rfari wrote:ole soldier, how ting looking out dey?
not good for some ppl.....
but other wise the curfew has done alot of good for certain communities.....
from what i'm seeing while on patrol 90%citizens welcome the SOE...info has been pouring in from those ppl in the communities.....
The 22thugs what were apprehended on Nelson street on tuesday were rounded based on outstanding warrants....they ranged from drugs, kidnapping, firearm, rape and murder offences... so don't feel sorry for them!
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:could they have been apprehended without the SOE?bluespeed wrote:rfari wrote:ole soldier, how ting looking out dey?
not good for some ppl.....
but other wise the curfew has done alot of good for certain communities.....
from what i'm seeing while on patrol 90%citizens welcome the SOE...info has been pouring in from those ppl in the communities.....
The 22thugs what were apprehended on Nelson street on tuesday were rounded based on outstanding warrants....they ranged from drugs, kidnapping, firearm, rape and murder offences... so don't feel sorry for them!
ok thanks! I can understand the technicality of the warrants expiring, but couldn't the court have issued bench warrants for all these criminals with outstanding or expired property search warrants? I doubt the regular system could have been been working so much in favour of these criminals.bluespeed wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:could they have been apprehended without the SOE?bluespeed wrote:rfari wrote:ole soldier, how ting looking out dey?
not good for some ppl.....
but other wise the curfew has done alot of good for certain communities.....
from what i'm seeing while on patrol 90%citizens welcome the SOE...info has been pouring in from those ppl in the communities.....
The 22thugs what were apprehended on Nelson street on tuesday were rounded based on outstanding warrants....they ranged from drugs, kidnapping, firearm, rape and murder offences... so don't feel sorry for them!
yes & no....it would have taken forever to get all the criminals in one place at one time....and a property search warrant expires......a bench warrant does not...
with the SOE it is like shooting carbs in a barrel....we know that they are in a certain area at a certain given time....and if you not there...... some other innocent family member is going in your place!!!.....
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:ok thanks! I can understand the technicality of the warrants expiring, but couldn't the court have issued bench warrants for all these criminals with outstanding or expired property search warrants? I doubt the regular system could have been been working so much in favour of these criminals.bluespeed wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:could they have been apprehended without the SOE?bluespeed wrote:rfari wrote:ole soldier, how ting looking out dey?
not good for some ppl.....
but other wise the curfew has done alot of good for certain communities.....
from what i'm seeing while on patrol 90%citizens welcome the SOE...info has been pouring in from those ppl in the communities.....
The 22thugs what were apprehended on Nelson street on tuesday were rounded based on outstanding warrants....they ranged from drugs, kidnapping, firearm, rape and murder offences... so don't feel sorry for them!
yes & no....it would have taken forever to get all the criminals in one place at one time....and a property search warrant expires......a bench warrant does not...
with the SOE it is like shooting carbs in a barrel....we know that they are in a certain area at a certain given time....and if you not there...... some other innocent family member is going in your place!!!.....
also how did the SOE get all 22 criminals in one place at one time?
I also understand that the SOE allows Defence force / army soldiers to capture these criminals whereas before the SOE this would have had to have been done by the Police. is it that the Police, by themselves, couldn't have gotten these 22 arrested?
just trying to understand if this can be done without a SOE
CURFEW EVERYWHERE
Gibbs: I will ask again that all citizens obey
By Akile Simon
Story Created: Aug 25, 2011 at 12:57 AM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 25, 2011 at 12:57 AM ECT
COMMISSIONER of Police Dwayne Gibbs yesterday stated that the entire country is under curfew restrictions during the specified period of 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.
This contradicts statements made by National Security Minister Brigadier John Sandy and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan.
On Tuesday at a news briefing at the National Security Ministry on Abercromby Street, Port of Spain, Sandy and Ramlogan said that citizens living in communities in which there are no curfew restrictions are free to go about their business.
Sandy had stated that persons who live outside the curfew zones were free to congregate on the roadways, and even have parties in their communities, once they conform to the rule of law.
He explained, "If you live in Tunapuna and Tunapuna is not part of the areas under curfew, and you want to leave your home, let's say to go El Dorado Road, to walk down to the Main Road to have a beer, absolutely nothing is wrong with that because that area is not under curfew.
"For instance, if you're in a community and you want to have a street party in your community, and it's outside of the area of the curfew, you can do that. It's outside in the streets and it's within that area; but if you venture out and into areas where there is curfew, then you're breaking the law."
Ramlogan had stated that persons were free to about their business as usual and "outside of curfew areas, life goes on as usual."
But yesterday, when Gibbs was told by the Express that police officers have continued to impose curfew restrictions in several communities which are not listed under the Emergency Powers Curfew Order 2011, Gibbs said as far as he was aware, the curfew restrictions apply throughout the country.
Curfew restrictions went into effect in four regional corporations and two cities on Monday from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m., and the order was signed by Deputy Commissioner of Police Stephen Williams. Williams was at the time acting as CoP while Gibbs was on official police business in Brazil over the weekend.
Gibbs spoke yesterday with members of the media after a sod turning ceremony for the new Arima Police Station which will cost $35 million.
Told by the Express that the actions of the police could amount to an abuse of power and a breach of person's constitutional rights, Gibbs didn't agree .
He said, "State of emergency includes those curfew restrictions. Well again, the curfew extends throughout Trinidad and Tobago under the state of emergency. We are more heavily focused on certain areas. I will ask again that all citizens obey the curfew, all citizens follow the directions of the police officers and the law enforcement officials when they are in their areas".
Told that the statement from Sandy and Ramlogan contradicts his own, Gibbs maintained his position that the curfew restrictions will be enforced throughout the country.
Regarding allegations of excessive force and an abuse of power being employed by police officers in the Beetham Gardens and Maloney yesterday, Gibbs said such actions will not be tolerated, but also called on citizens to cooperate with law enforcement officials.
He said: "One of the things we have been looking at is that we have been given special powers of arrest, seizure and search because of the state of emergency. One of the things we did talk about yesterday was that this doesn't provide any type of opportunity for abuse to citizens. That won't be tolerated.
"But we are asking the cooperation of all the citizens that when we come into their homes, their offices, when we are dealing with them to basically listen to what we ask and cooperate and that way it prevents any type of misinterpretation and allows us to do the job that we need to do without people getting hurt, people getting their property damaged," Gibbs said.
Gibbs added he was satisfied with the results so far and commended the officers for their hard and diligent work.
"We have had some good gains in terms of the arrest of some people that would have been picked up, are definitely people of some interest for the police and its our intent to start breaking down and displacing the different gangs and the different organised pieces," Gibbs said.
AbstractPoetic wrote:S_2NR wrote:AbstractPoetic wrote:S_2NR wrote:AP, why so serious?
U dont reside in Trinidad, none of this is directly affecting you.
Since when I have to live in Trinidad and Tobago or be directly affected to care about my country?
if u care so much, come back and help make a difference.
How presumptuous of you to think that is not my intent.
redmanjp wrote:wtf more confusion?!
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/CURFEW_EVERYWHERE-128365328.htmlCURFEW EVERYWHERE
Gibbs: I will ask again that all citizens obey
By Akile Simon
Story Created: Aug 25, 2011 at 12:57 AM ECT
Story Updated: Aug 25, 2011 at 12:57 AM ECT
COMMISSIONER of Police Dwayne Gibbs yesterday stated that the entire country is under curfew restrictions during the specified period of 9 p.m. to 5 a.m.
This contradicts statements made by National Security Minister Brigadier John Sandy and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan.
On Tuesday at a news briefing at the National Security Ministry on Abercromby Street, Port of Spain, Sandy and Ramlogan said that citizens living in communities in which there are no curfew restrictions are free to go about their business.
Sandy had stated that persons who live outside the curfew zones were free to congregate on the roadways, and even have parties in their communities, once they conform to the rule of law.
He explained, "If you live in Tunapuna and Tunapuna is not part of the areas under curfew, and you want to leave your home, let's say to go El Dorado Road, to walk down to the Main Road to have a beer, absolutely nothing is wrong with that because that area is not under curfew.
"For instance, if you're in a community and you want to have a street party in your community, and it's outside of the area of the curfew, you can do that. It's outside in the streets and it's within that area; but if you venture out and into areas where there is curfew, then you're breaking the law."
Ramlogan had stated that persons were free to about their business as usual and "outside of curfew areas, life goes on as usual."
But yesterday, when Gibbs was told by the Express that police officers have continued to impose curfew restrictions in several communities which are not listed under the Emergency Powers Curfew Order 2011, Gibbs said as far as he was aware, the curfew restrictions apply throughout the country.
Curfew restrictions went into effect in four regional corporations and two cities on Monday from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m., and the order was signed by Deputy Commissioner of Police Stephen Williams. Williams was at the time acting as CoP while Gibbs was on official police business in Brazil over the weekend.
Gibbs spoke yesterday with members of the media after a sod turning ceremony for the new Arima Police Station which will cost $35 million.
Told by the Express that the actions of the police could amount to an abuse of power and a breach of person's constitutional rights, Gibbs didn't agree .
He said, "State of emergency includes those curfew restrictions. Well again, the curfew extends throughout Trinidad and Tobago under the state of emergency. We are more heavily focused on certain areas. I will ask again that all citizens obey the curfew, all citizens follow the directions of the police officers and the law enforcement officials when they are in their areas".
Told that the statement from Sandy and Ramlogan contradicts his own, Gibbs maintained his position that the curfew restrictions will be enforced throughout the country.
Regarding allegations of excessive force and an abuse of power being employed by police officers in the Beetham Gardens and Maloney yesterday, Gibbs said such actions will not be tolerated, but also called on citizens to cooperate with law enforcement officials.
He said: "One of the things we have been looking at is that we have been given special powers of arrest, seizure and search because of the state of emergency. One of the things we did talk about yesterday was that this doesn't provide any type of opportunity for abuse to citizens. That won't be tolerated.
"But we are asking the cooperation of all the citizens that when we come into their homes, their offices, when we are dealing with them to basically listen to what we ask and cooperate and that way it prevents any type of misinterpretation and allows us to do the job that we need to do without people getting hurt, people getting their property damaged," Gibbs said.
Gibbs added he was satisfied with the results so far and commended the officers for their hard and diligent work.
"We have had some good gains in terms of the arrest of some people that would have been picked up, are definitely people of some interest for the police and its our intent to start breaking down and displacing the different gangs and the different organised pieces," Gibbs said.
AbstractPoetic wrote:rfari wrote:AbstractPoetic wrote:racy lady wrote:AbstractPoetic wrote:U.S. Navys are being spotted in the Caribbean Sea. USA doh play that.
there's more than one?
Yes. Goes to show that this whole scene have little to do with a war on crime. Did you catch what the AG stated on today's interview? Intelligence information was what resulted in the SOE. It's bigger than just domestic affairs.
AP, who/what is ur source for US Navy spotted in the caribbean sea?
I have my sources. Located somewhere off the coast of South Trinidad. Don't know if it relates but quite frankly I have my suspicions alot is not being said.
[X]~Outlaw wrote:Duane you really have patience!!
Under the SOE Our military takes their directives from our elected CIVILIAN government.
Under Martial Law, the Military would have installed itself as the government and take their directives from military leaders.
We are not under martial law.
Emergency Powers (Curfew) Order, 2011
FIRST SCHEDULE
Between 9.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m. in the City of Port-of-Spain as demarcated in the
First Schedule to the Municipal Corporations Act.
SECOND SCHEDULE
Between 9.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m. in the city of San Fernando as demarcated in the
First Schedule to the Municipal Corporations Act.
THIRD SCHEDULE
Between 9.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m. in the Borough of Arima as demarcated in the First
Schedule to the Municipal Corporations Act.
FOURTH SCHEDULE
Between 9.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m. in Borough of Chaguanas as demarcated in the First
Part of the Second Schedule to the Municipal Corporations Act.
FIFTH SCHEDULE
Between 9.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m. in the Region of Diego Martin as demarcated in the
Second Part of the Second Schedule to the Municipal Corporations Act.
SIXTH SCHEDULE
Between 9.00 p.m. and 5.00 a.m. in the Region of San Juan/Laventille as demarcated in the Second Part of the Second Schedule to the Municipal Corporations Act.
Made by the Commissioner of Police this 22nd day of August, 2011.
S. WILLIAMS
Acting Commissioner of Police
the new Arima Police Station which will cost $35 million
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:YES our constitutional rights have been curtailed by the SOE, but we are NOT under martial law!!!
Is it really that difficult to understand?
netsket wrote:question.....I assume u studying US law and in the US....correct me if i wrong....but how does a US trained lawyer work or make a difference in a UK based legal system...isnt the 2 different systems? i just asking for clarification.
Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 68 guests
