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 Post subject: chimps are NOT people
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:12 am 
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http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from- ... =12082014&

Confined to a cage, Tommy's inability to uphold human social obligations means he's stuck there for now. Photo: Chi King/Flickr

Chimps Aren't People, New York Court Rules
Primates not entitled to human rights
By: THE EDITORS
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A New York appeals court ruled Thursday that a chimpanzee is not entitled to human rights, the Associated Press reports. The court denied legal personhood to a Fulton County chimp and excused his owners from releasing him from caged isolation in a warehouse.

The Nonhuman Rights Project filed cases in December 2013 in favor of the release of former entertainment chimp Tommy and three other New York chimps, noting a growing body of research showing similarities between chimps and humans. After Tommy’s lawyers lost in court, they appealed on grounds that Tommy lives in “solitary confinement,” Wired reports. If defined as a “person,” Tommy would be permitted protections under the writ of habeas corpus and have the right not to be wrongfully imprisoned.

The three-judge panel’s ruling concluded that Tommy still doesn’t qualify as a “person” in the context of habeas corpus law, based on a lack of precedent. In addition, the court discussed the other side of personhood: duties.

“The ascription of rights has historically been connected with the imposition of societal obligations and duties,” the judges wrote. “Needless to say, unlike human beings, chimpanzees cannot bear any legal duties, submit to societal responsibilities or be held legally accountable for their actions. In our view it is this incapability to bear any legal responsibilities and societal duties that renders it inappropriate to confer upon chimpanzees the legal rights … that have been afforded to human beings.”

“I just couldn’t picture any court granting habeas corpus for an animal,” Tommy’s owner, Patrick Lavery, told the Associated Press. “If it works for one animal, it works for all animals. It would open a can of worms.” The judges noted that the Nonhuman Rights Project didn’t claim Tommy was being mistreated.

However, the judges note that their ruling doesn’t “leave [animals] defenseless,” citing legal protections such as prohibition of animal torture and abandonment; it also encourages the Nonhuman Rights Project to seek further legal protections for chimpanzees in different ways.

The Nonhuman Rights Project plans to appeal the appeal ruling.


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ruffneck_12
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:06 pm 
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They still have feelings and instincts tho

Chimps designed to swing from trees and sheit, let it have the freedom to do what it was designed to do.


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Spitfir3
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:40 pm 
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because it ain't human treat it like sheit, nice....


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Habit7
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:50 pm 
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A foetus is human, yet in the US it is sliced up and vacuumed out of the womb as a means of birth control. And someone thinks that chimp is so human it deserves not be in cage?

#mixedpriorities


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Duane 3NE 2NR
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Remind me again why humans deserve better treatment than other animals?


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Habit7
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Well historically it was because of man being 'imago dei' (created in God's image) and all our rights, morals and fundamental laws coming from God. But in our modern humanistic secular worldview the holocaust isn't as bad the slaughter of millions of chickens everyday or keeping a chimp in cage is tantamount to the imprisonment without trial of many, even in the US.

But to live consistent with that ideology I don't expect one to eat meat or have pets of any kind.


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SMc
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Remind me again why humans deserve better treatment than other animals?


Sadly because we make the rules...


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Curtms
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:44 pm 
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X2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Deport them all...


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Duane 3NE 2NR
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Habit7 wrote:
Well historically it was because of man being 'imago dei' (created in God's image) and all our rights, morals and fundamental laws coming from God. But in our modern humanistic secular worldview the holocaust isn't as bad the slaughter of millions of chickens everyday or keeping a chimp in cage is tantamount to the imprisonment without trial of many, even in the US.

But to live consistent with that ideology I don't expect one to eat meat or have pets of any kind.
Historically? There is great historical evidence, even empirical scientific evidence of man worshipping animals for many millennia and even today.

Animals have to eat. Omnivores and carnivores eat other animals. Humans are omnivores.


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Habit7
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:05 pm 
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By historically I mean western history, the one that influences our laws.

If animals deserve equal treatment then killing mosquitoes should be homicide (same-killing).


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Duane 3NE 2NR
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:51 am 
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Habit7 wrote:
By historically I mean western history, the one that influences our laws.
I thought you said that our laws come from God?

Habit7 wrote:
If animals deserve equal treatment then killing mosquitoes should be homicide (same-killing).
I actually just tried to kill one that was about to bite me. Self preservation / defense is a natural thing in the animal kingdom. A cheetah can be seriously harmed or even killed by the kick of a zebra it is trying to kill to eat. Animals will pick and kill ticks off themselves or others in their group.


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X2
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:34 am 
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Jesus used to hang around with a gang of murders that slaughtered fish by the hundreds....


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link
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:08 am 
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The Sixth Day: Creatures on Land
…25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.…
.
:|


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Habit7
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:05 am 
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Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
By historically I mean western history, the one that influences our laws.
I thought you said that our laws come from God?
Yes, the ten commandments influenced our fundamental laws in the west.

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
If animals deserve equal treatment then killing mosquitoes should be homicide (same-killing).
I actually just tried to kill one that was about to bite me. Self preservation / defense is a natural thing in the animal kingdom. A cheetah can be seriously harmed or even killed by the kick of a zebra it is trying to kill to eat. Animals will pick and kill ticks off themselves or others in their group.
So is it homicide?


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meccalli
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:39 am 
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Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Historically? There is great historical evidence, even empirical scientific evidence of man worshipping animals for many millennia and even today.


Those cultures had great respect for attributes of that animal and usually assigned particular functions to certain animals. Ultimately, they were representations of a particular god, usually planetary or spiritual in nature. This is made clear when you look at places like Egypt and across the globe to the Aztecs and Mayans where gods possessed traits of creatures such as snakes and birds(Quetzalcoatl). Some Indians may worship cobras, but it's as a respect of Shiva, monkeys- Hanuman etc.


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bluesclues
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:45 am 
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Habit7 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
By historically I mean western history, the one that influences our laws.
I thought you said that our laws come from God?
Yes, the ten commandments influenced our fundamental laws in the west.

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
If animals deserve equal treatment then killing mosquitoes should be homicide (same-killing).
I actually just tried to kill one that was about to bite me. Self preservation / defense is a natural thing in the animal kingdom. A cheetah can be seriously harmed or even killed by the kick of a zebra it is trying to kill to eat. Animals will pick and kill ticks off themselves or others in their group.
So is it homicide?


12 commandments but ok. Glad u can see it now. The extra 2 from Jesus make all the difference in political law structure and administration.

Animals are animals because they must experience that level of living. Man is above animal and so the law cant apply to them. However we can protect the animals from unnecessary torture and excessive wickedness which comes at the hands of man.


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bluesclues
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:09 am 
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meccalli wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
Historically? There is great historical evidence, even empirical scientific evidence of man worshipping animals for many millennia and even today.


Those cultures had great respect for attributes of that animal and usually assigned particular functions to certain animals. Ultimately, they were representations of a particular god, usually planetary or spiritual in nature. This is made clear when you look at places like Egypt and across the globe to the Aztecs and Mayans where gods possessed traits of creatures such as snakes and birds(Quetzalcoatl). Some Indians may worship cobras, but it's as a respect of Shiva, monkeys- Hanuman etc.

Those were symbolic use of animals that highlighted some attribute of the divine. The golden calf also is not ur average cow. So not the animal they worshipped, but the secret teachings of divinity tied to that animal used as a symbolic reference.


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redmanjp
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:38 am 
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Habit7 wrote:
A foetus is human, yet in the US it is sliced up and vacuumed out of the womb as a means of birth control. And someone thinks that chimp is so human it deserves not be in cage?

#mixedpriorities


my thoughts exactly


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xhex
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:19 am 
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they used to think that ways about blacks, they are not people. white people need someone to put them in their place. they figure everything should be as they say and they destroying all laws of nature for their own benefit.


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EFFECTIC DESIGNS
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:03 am 
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People in this day and age still deny things like Evolution etc?

I wonder what causes otherwise educated people to believe in magic and a sky fairy over scientific evidence? Can people really be this gullible? indoctrination is a hell of a thing yes!!!

In the words of the eminent scientist Dr Richard Dawkins, anyone not brought up in the faith who believe these stories from scriptures has to be none other than barking mad.


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desifemlove
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:06 am 
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i dunno...people own dem as pets, and den ball when dey rip off/eat people face....so meh, i dunno....de fact people own non-docile animals as pets means dey ent get human rights...


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bluesclues
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:44 pm 
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EFFECTIC DESIGNS wrote:
People in this day and age still deny things like Evolution etc?

I wonder what causes otherwise educated people to believe in magic and a sky fairy over scientific evidence? Can people really be this gullible? indoctrination is a hell of a thing yes!!!

In the words of the eminent scientist Dr Richard Dawkins, anyone not brought up in the faith who believe these stories from scriptures has to be none other than barking mad.


well some people still behave like monkeys but still genetically we are a separate species so they benefit from human rights. other people have long evolved pass monkeyous ways. :mrgreen:


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~Vēġó~
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:34 pm 
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X2 wrote:
Deport them all...


oh dear...


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desifemlove
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:10 am 
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Habit7 wrote:
By historically I mean western history, the one that influences our laws.

If animals deserve equal treatment then killing mosquitoes should be homicide (same-killing).


hmmm....any animal who cause disease or merely bite people getting it.....if an animal (IMHO) ent a threat to life or safety or property, it shouldn't be killed..


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