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bluefete
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:08 am 
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This is the end result of nasty Eurocentric geo-politics in the Middle East.

The ancient Muslim hatreds tearing apart the Middle East: How 1,400-year-old feud between Shia and Sunni sects flared into life with the fall of dictators like Gaddafi and Saddam... and now threatens to swallow all of Iraq


By Michael Burleigh

Published: 23:25 GMT, 12 June 2014 | Updated: 06:56 GMT, 13 June 2014


At the heart of the terrifying meltdown in Iraq is the centuries-old hatred between two Muslim ideologies: Sunni and Shia.

The deadly power struggle between these two rival versions of the same faith has flared into life as Sunnis in the extremist terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) advance on Baghdad, where flailing prime minister Nouri al-Maliki - who is Shia - begged his parliament to declare a state of emergency.

It is a battle being watched with trepidation throughout the Middle East, where the escalation of the traditional Sunni/Shia conflict threatens governments and national borders.

Already, ISIS has effectively established its own nation state - or Islamic caliphate - which spreads across the north of Syria and Iraq, taking no heed of the border between the countries.

Image
Regional tensions: How religious and military divides shape the Middle East

Its extraordinary success could not have been achieved without the tacit support of ordinary Sunni people in the areas it has conquered.

The Sunnis in Mosul regarded the Shia-dominated army from the south of the country as an occupying force and were only too pleased to see the back of them.

True, these people are terrified of the brutal ideology of ISIS, which specialises in amputations and crucifixions for those who do not subscribe to its fundamentalist creed.

But for now, their hatred of al-Maliki’s authoritarian government, which treats them as a lower caste, outweighs those fears.

ImageTensions: The Isis fighters are from the Sunni branch of Islam - as was Saddam Hussein - in contrast to the current Shia government.

To add to the tribal tensions in Iraq, the country’s north-eastern Kurdish population - who were persecuted by Saddam Hussein and gassed in their thousands - have established what is, in effect, their own independent state in the north of the country.

Their force of 250,000 crack Peshmerga militia - who have just taken the oil-rich city of Kirkuk - could defeat ISIS, but they are in dispute with al-Maliki over oil revenues and are in no mood to help.

Meanwhile, across the Middle East, Sunni and Shia rivalries are festering like open sores. Of the world’s 1.6billion Muslims, the vast majority are Sunnis; Shias comprise 10 to 15 per cent - two hundred million people.

Egypt, Turkey, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia are Sunni. In Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, the ruling Sunni treat Shia as second-class citizens.

The Shia are concentrated in Iran, southern Iraq and Lebanon. And despite being in the minority in Syria, they are powerful there, too: President Bashar Assad’s ruling party belong to a Shia sect called the Alawites.

Once you understand the Sunni/Shia divide, you can make sense of the rivalries in the Middle East. It explains why Sunni rebels - backed by the predominantly Sunni powers, ranging from Turkey to Saudi Arabia and the smaller Gulf states - are determined to fight Assad’s Shia-dominated army to the death.

And why Lebanese Hizbollah militias (Shia) are fighting for Assad, under the command of Revolutionary Guards officers from Iran (also Shia).

The most extraordinary fact in all this is that the conflict goes back to the seventh century and centres on a dispute over who should succeed Islam’s founder Prophet Muhammad after he died in 632 AD.

The largest group (Sunnis) wanted traditional tribal elders to decide upon the best person; the name Sunni comes from Ahl al-Sunna, meaning the people of tradition.

A minority (Shia) wanted a blood relative of the Prophet, and this clash grew violent when Ali, the Prophet’s cousin and son-in-law, became the fourth caliph - an office that fuses political and religious power. Shia derive their name from shiaat Ali or followers of Ali.

During the years of Empire, these divisions were muted as Sunni and Shia united against the colonial rulers, who took little account of tribal rivalry when they arbitrarily created new countries such as Iraq, a concoction dreamed up by Britain and France in 1921 after the fall of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Two former Turkish territories were handed to princes in the Hashemite family. Prince Feisal, a friend of Lawrence of Arabia, would become king of a new country called Iraq. His brother, Prince Abdullah, would rule Transjordan - now Jordan.

Authoritarian rulers - Saddam Hussein, President Assad and Colonel Gaddafi in Libya - ruthlessly kept a lid on the religious rivalry.

But with their removal, the divisions have exploded throughout the Middle East and beyond.

This is why extreme fundamentalist Sunnis who wish to restore the medieval caliphate are on the march.

Given the chance, they would kill all Shia as heretics - along with Jews and Christians - and sweep away corrupt and ‘faithless’ rulers in the region, from Jordan’s King Abdullah to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.

This explains why the very Gulf rulers who covertly back them - if only in an attempt to buy themselves peace and encourage them to leave their shores for jihadist missions abroad - are even more terrified than the rest of us.


Proof Blair and the West made a catastrophic mistake

COMMENTARY BY ANDREW GREEN, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA

The news from Iraq finally disposes of the case for Western military intervention. I say that with feeling, having been firmly opposed to our interventions in Iraq and Libya as well as any mooted for Syria.

It must now be clear that Western leaders have been downright naïve about the societies of the Middle East and about the prospects for democracy in that region any time soon.

Dictators, we were told, must be removed to allow the people freedom of expression. Indeed so. Nobody doubts the appalling records of Saddam, Gaddafi and the Assads.

But we must surely recognise their iron grip held in check highly destructive tensions within their own societies. This is not to promote the cause of dictators, simply to point out that the question we should have been asking ourselves before intervening was, and remains, whether the West was in any position to improve matters.

In every case we tended to focus on military success and failed utterly to think of what might happen once the dictator was removed. In Iraq, we were taken to war by Blair and Bush on a prospectus which they must have known was false.

First, claims that Saddam was in league with Al  Qaeda were known by every expert to be incorrect - the two had long been sworn enemies.

Second, there were the chemical weapons Saddam was alleged to possess and which were somehow a threat to UK interests.

British intelligence was distorted to produce the famous ‘dossier’ which claimed Iraq could deploy those weapons within 45 minutes. In a shameful episode in British intelligence history, the process of gathering and analysis was abused by allowing Alastair Campbell, an unelected political aide, to ‘edit’ the key intelligence summary - the cornerstone of Blair’s case.

Having got us into that war, Blair and Bush had absolutely no idea what to do next. Their mantra that ‘the world is a better place without Saddam’ was no more than a simplistic analysis of an extremely complicated Iraqi society, quite different to those in the West.

Today’s chaos in Iraq has its roots in the damage the West did to Iraqi society in the aftermath of our invasion. We disbanded the army, a key to stability in most Arab countries. This was sheer foolishness.

Similarly, disbanding Saddam’s ruling Ba’ath party - to which most senior Iraqis were obliged to belong, whatever their views - was another act of folly. We destroyed the very sinews of Iraqi society while imagining our imposition of ‘democracy’ would somehow replace them. Meanwhile, the immediate effect of our invasion on the wider region was greatly to increase the power of Iran.

Since the fall of the Shah a generation ago, Iranian influence in the Gulf had been held in check by the forces of its mortal enemies, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. This constraint was blown away by Saddam’s removal, leaving Iran as the leading Shia power in the Muslim world.

This week, we saw the bitter irony of Iranian special forces reportedly being sent to Baghdad to prop up the floundering regime.

Libya is a very different country to Iraq, but again we have seen the ousting of an unpleasant dictator - and ensuing anarchy.

That country is now splitting at the seams as militia in its east and west fight for influence while the tribes in the south are similarly bellicose. One consequence is a sharply increased flow of migrants from other parts of Africa to Libya seeking to cross to Europe.

In Syria we have, thankfully, steered clear of direct involvement. As events have turned out, President Assad has not only survived but gained control of key areas, while leaving much of the north and east in opposition hands. After three years of a dreadful civil war, many Syrians, Sunnis included, want the fighting to stop.

Not so the Sunni Islamic extremists led by ISIS. They have proved to be the most ruthless of occupiers and their blitzkrieg heading for Baghdad is extremely serious for the region.

Make no mistake, there are consequences for Britain, too. The security services say ‘blowback’ from Syria is one of the main threats to our security; that UK citizens fighting there will return battle-hardened and indoctrinated, seeking to attack our way of life.

The success of ISIS would be a huge boost for the Jihadists and attract even more UK recruits. The luck of the security services cannot hold for ever. The number of dangerous suspects is growing and so are the odds against terrorist plots being foiled.

Meanwhile, Syria’s civil war is spreading to Iraq - and who knows where that might lead?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z34W4CYFUd
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RIPEBREDFRUIT
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:31 am 
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dem forking islam extremists again- Bomb all ah forking dem.............


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Daran
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:36 am 
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Let it happen, it's pointless to try to stop it.


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pugboy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:41 am 
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US don't need other people oil so bad anymore now that they are a net producer with fracking


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:09 am 
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They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.


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VexXx Dogg
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:38 am 
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RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.

I aint a muslim, but lolwut?

There are and will be religious extremists no matter which god you pray to. Christianity still has the sore of the KKK, which is still active. Perhaps the islamist extremists might outnumber the rest tho..


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partsman
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:42 am 
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So wait , western countries run by christians cut up the middle east, install dictators, then make up lies , invade and destroy these same countries but Islam is the problem ? In the 60's , Afghanistan was a secular democratic country where women wore western garb . It was destabilized by the US & co, resulting in the sheit you see today. Iran was also a secular democratic country but was destabilized and the Shah was installed . After terrorizing his country for years, he was ousted and the Ayatollah came in. Go read your history .The middle east has been systematically brought down to serve Israeli interests , but Islam is the problem eh.

In this very article one sees that Iraq , used for years by the US to wage war on Iran, was unjustly accused and destroyed . Over 1 million people have been killed , the environment contaminated by depleted uranium radiation resulting in an epidemic of cancers. Throughout all this , not once has anyone suggested that Christianity is barbaric , but if these acts were done by a muslim country , well , the western media would foam at the mouth. But Islam is the problem.

Look at Libya , once described as the Paris of north africa , now a failed state . Ever since i was a child , all i ever heard about Gaddafi from the international media was that he was a dictator, a mad man , a terrorist . However , according to the UNDP , under Gaddafi , literacy rates steadily rose, infant mortality steadily declined , education, healthcare were free ; newly married couples got a house and cash . . . etc. Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa .Not bad for a tyrant eh. Just before he was brought down , he was praised by the UN. Go and look at the infamous Lockerbie bombing and the West Berlin disco bombing for which Libya was blamed. It was proved that the CIA bribed the witnesses and the magistrates were pressured for a guilty verdict .

Look at Syria . In this article, the writer says , "in Syria we have, thankfully, steered clear of direct involvement . . " What a joke. Go and read what Nobel Peace Laureate Mairead Maguire said in her report : " “The Syrian State is Under a Proxy War Led by Foreign Countries”. Far from not being involved , the US was very much involved , together with France, England , Qatar & S/Arabia. Over 100,000 foreign mercenaries were funnelled into Syria since 2011 in order to bring down that nation, amongst them the very same people whom the US are fighting in Afghanistan. In Africa , the US has bases all over and has been using and promoting these terrorist groups to effect a problem - solution scenario , as in the case of Boko Haram. This group helped the US to bring down Libya and in return was given weaponry. Hillary Clinton refused to categorize them as terrorists. Imagine that.

In the last century alone , it has been estimated that the US has been responsible for over 100 million deaths world wide. Go read "A History of US interventions" by William Blum and see the carnage this nation has wreaked across the globe. As for that twit who said Islam is still in the dark ages, you are nothing more than an uneducated parrot , repeating what the propaganda arm of the US gov't, the US media , says. It is Islam that gave the west its renaissance. When the west was in its Dark Age , Islam was at the forefront in all fields of science. Go on the net and see how many non muslims , western leaders ( eg Ronald Reagan) expressed admiration for Islam. What Islam needs is not an enlightenment , but for the west to stop interfering , to stop waging war , to stop dividing and conquering.

It's quite easy to see where the real problem lies.


Last edited by partsman on Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AdamB
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:36 am 
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RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.

The world has benefited from the progress brought by Islam. Do your homework...The dark ages, lol...


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src1983
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:48 am 
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Religion again


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:14 pm 
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AdamB wrote:
RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.

The world has benefited from the progress brought by Islam. Do your homework...The dark ages, lol...


Oh right.
My mistake a lot of advancements taking place in the middle east right NOW.
Not then, but now...

Get your head out the sand. The place is backward as it stands. It needs ALOT of work to help bring it forward.


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zoom rader
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:16 pm 
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RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.


Stick to promoting PNM nah.
Christianity gained economic reform and progress when the crusaders stole the wealth from the Arabs and was enlighten to their wisdom during the Christian terrorism wars.


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zoom rader
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:20 pm 
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RASC wrote:
AdamB wrote:
RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.

The world has benefited from the progress brought by Islam. Do your homework...The dark ages, lol...


Oh right.
My mistake a lot of advancements taking place in the middle east right NOW.
Not then, but now...

Get your head out the sand. The place is backward as it stands. It needs ALOT of work to help bring it forward.


Hold be right back going Dubai


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:53 pm 
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zoom rader wrote:
RASC wrote:
AdamB wrote:
RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.

The world has benefited from the progress brought by Islam. Do your homework...The dark ages, lol...


Oh right.
My mistake a lot of advancements taking place in the middle east right NOW.
Not then, but now...

Get your head out the sand. The place is backward as it stands. It needs ALOT of work to help bring it forward.


Hold be right back going Dubai


Dubai with the slave labour? Sure.
You call Dubai as wide spread development and advancement of the masses and general public in the middle east?
Hahaha


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:58 pm 
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zoom rader wrote:
RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.


Stick to promoting PNM nah.
Christianity gained economic reform and progress when the crusaders stole the wealth from the Arabs and was enlighten to their wisdom during the Christian terrorism wars.


This happened AFTER enlightenment and realising how to turn religious rhetoric into FINANCIAL gain. Financial gain which they then used to build economic, social and infrastructural advancements.

Go back into your hole. You're out of your depth. If you for one second think that Islam in its current state in the middle east is a way to economic advancement for the masses...you're just trolling.


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zoom rader
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:08 pm 
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RASC wrote:
zoom rader wrote:
RASC wrote:
They're basically still in the dark ages.
Islam needs an enlightenment period similar to Christianity badly, if they're to start any kind of economic reform and progress.


Stick to promoting PNM nah.
Christianity gained economic reform and progress when the crusaders stole the wealth from the Arabs and was enlighten to their wisdom during the Christian terrorism wars.


This happened AFTER enlightenment and realising how to turn religious rhetoric into FINANCIAL gain. Financial gain which they then used to build economic, social and infrastructural advancements.

Go back into your hole. You're out of your depth. If you for one second think that Islam in its current state in the middle east is a way to economic advancement for the masses...you're just trolling.


Islam was/is never about economic or financial gain. Christianity is all about financial gain, hold be right back gonna source funds to build pena church


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Not about financial gain =will stay under developed. Easy equation.
When you're not concerned about bringing people out of poverty, developing infrastructure networks and security... Educating majority of the population including women...you will stay backwards with only the clerics and leading class benefitting....which is exactly how the middle east under strict Islamic rule is.


Simple.


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zoom rader
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:23 pm 
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RASC wrote:
Not about financial gain =will stay under developed. Easy equation.
When you're not concerned about bringing people out of poverty, developing infrastructure networks and security... Educating majority of the population including women...you will stay backwards with only the clerics and leading class benefitting....which is exactly how the middle east under strict Islamic rule is.


Simple.


What proverty, I don't think you understand how the Arab/Jew system works . You are looking at it from a westerners view which is one sided.


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:30 pm 
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No widespread poverty and under development in the middle east.

OK.

You win! The End.


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fouljuice
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:01 pm 
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I posted this in the wtf thread.

ISIS in action.





Uncensored short version.



Full version, from where that clip came from, (non-english)

:| :| :| :shock:


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Duane 3NE 2NR
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Because the person/s who discovered / developed some technology is of a certain religion does not mean that their religion was responsible for the discovery / development of the technology!!!


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RBphoto
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:14 pm 
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Dubai is a shite hole for working class people. Economic progress my arse.


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Duane 3NE 2NR
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:27 pm 
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zoom rader wrote:
Islam was/is never about economic or financial gain.
what?

Arabs were always about trade and conquest. In the early days of Islam there were many wars fought between tribes which resulted in one side acquiring wealth, land and slaves.

and then today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_economics
"In June 2005, the Dow Jones Indexes in New York and RHB Securities in Kuala Lumpur teamed up to launch a new "Islamic Malaysia Index"—a collection of 45 stocks representing Malaysian companies that comply with a variety of Sharia-based requirements. For example, total debt, cash plus interest-bearing securities and accounts receivables must each be less than 33% of the trailing 12-month average capitalization.[citation needed] Islamic bonds, or sukuk, use asset returns to pay investors to comply with the religion's ban on interest and are currently traded privately on the over-the-counter market. In late December 2009 Bursa Malaysia announced it was considering enabling individuals to trade Shariah-compliant debt on its exchange as part of a plan to attract new investors."

There is alot of Islamic jurisprudence directly dealing with money, finance, wealth, charity, land, property etc. More detailed than most other religious texts.


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RASC
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:35 pm 
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Zoom Raider is a misinformed idiot.
Long been established.

At the risk of sending him into a spiralling racial and political assault I had to say that.

The middle east within the last decade, has now fallen BEHIND sub Saharan Africa in terms of economic development, education and security. This is a FACT. "There is no racism in FACT" (Sound familiar?)


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rfari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Eh ZR. Doh leh duane and rasc treat u like u issa dummy and eh knw nuttin dan.


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zoom rader
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rfari wrote:
Eh ZR. Doh leh duane and rasc treat u like u issa dummy and eh knw nuttin dan.


Nah dem win, dem know all about Islam and how it is structured. They read a lil news papers and watch anti Muslim tv and believe everything.
Jah bless dem fellars. Let dem continue


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ek4ever
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Survival of the fittest .... if you allow outsiders to come in and fcuk up your way of life to your detriment then too bad for you.

One can only hope that they wipe out each other .... COMPLETELY


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rfari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:10 pm 
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zoom rader wrote:
rfari wrote:
Eh ZR. Doh leh duane and rasc treat u like u issa dummy and eh knw nuttin dan.


Nah dem win, dem know all about Islam and how it is structured. They read a lil news papers and watch anti Muslim tv and believe everything.
Jah bless dem fellars. Let dem continue

winners doh quit Dan. make up something as usual and drop it on dem


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RASC
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:58 am 
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The American's should've never invaded Iraq in the first place. This huge power vacuum is spiraling out of control.

The gov'ts of Iraq and Syria are fighting a rebel faction Bourne out of West backed money.

Now the west has to reenter the fray to clean up the mess AGAIN. ISIS is at a stage now where they may bunker down and form their own country taking pieces of eastern syria and northern iraq with them.


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acesinghit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:46 am 
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The long awaited 12th imam when do you suppose he will come and fix this situation so that finally there can be peace in the Middle East?


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RASC
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:22 am 
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Peace in the Middle east?
When you have far right fundamental Saudi's funding Jihad across the globe. And preaching this 7th century form of "civilisation".
They will systematically keep the masses at bay through Sharia law and push their hatred for anything progressive through support of terror cells and intimidation.


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