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Rory Phoulorie
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:01 pm 
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UML wrote:
mosquito creek done does flood and have traffic jams daily....wudnt they have to reclaim land or take some of the mangrove (same thing the group opposing to) to make that area a highway???


The original design required a section of the mangrove to be taken to facilitate the dualling of the Southern Main Road along Mosquito Creek. I believe the EIA required that an equivalent area of Mangrove be replanted and cultivated to maturity to compensate for the loss.

UML wrote:
then look at the sharp bend from debe to golconda....wonder if it will increase our accident rate plus...not sure....but do highways have such sharp bends? (i asking eh)


That Mon Desir to Debe segment is what is being proposed by the Highway Re-Route Movement. The original highway alignment had a design speed of 120km/h, but with a posted speed limit of 80km/h.

I am not sure what changes, if any, have been made to the highway alignment since it has gone from a Design, Tender, Construct Contract to a Design-Construct Contract.


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pyung99
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:08 pm 
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instead of saying the people are dotish why don't yall elucidate for us as to why that particular stretch of highway is essential. if first world thinking is behind this stretch of highway, what exactly is the benefit? wah is d criteria used to validate the stretch? on some terrain it just isnt feasible to put highway. why not find a cheaper way?

the op presented a cost vs benefit analysis, including figures, and a proposed solution. in fact there may exist even more solutions. they are in all honesty simply stating that not enough energy was put into the original proposal.

if is more discuss dey want, is more discuss dey shud get. it hard to relocate i sure. and dis isnt d olden times like wen d other highways were being put up.

wah is d compensation package again? i don't find relocation to hdc housing should be acceptable.

and y d fack i go wah go point fortin in d first place. it hah nice gyal dey orrr


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Rory Phoulorie
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:18 pm 
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pyung99 wrote:
if first world thinking is behind this stretch of highway, what exactly is the benefit?

Quote:
1.1 Project Objective

A key objective of the National Highway Programme: Trunk Road Expansion Component is to improve the highway network south and west of San Fernando by extending the Solomon Hochoy Highway to Point Fortin and widening South Trunk Road and Southern Main Road. This investment will significantly reduce travel times between the southwest region and central-northern Trinidad and increase road safety. These highway improvements are essential to support industrial development, increase employment and income levels, and improve movement of people, goods and services benefiting both the regional population and the national economy. The road sections included in this part of the Trunk Road Expansion Component are:

1. Widening of South Trunk Road between Dumfries Road and Paria Suites
2. Extension of the Solomon Hochoy Highway (SHH) from Golconda to Debe
3. Construction of a new highway from St. Mary’s Junction to Dunlop Roundabout in Point Fortin including a connection to the Fyzabad Interchange
4. Extension of the SHH from Debe to San Francique Road
5. Extension of the SHH form San Francique Road to the Fyzabad Interchange
6. Widening of Southern Main Road from Paria Suites to St. Mary’s Junction.


pyung99 wrote:
if is more discuss dey want, is more discuss dey shud get. it hard to relocate i sure. and dis isnt d olden times like wen d other highways were being put up.

Rory Phoulorie wrote:
Again I ask:

Rory Phoulorie wrote:
I really can't understand why all this noise now when there were many PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS on this highway development. These public consultations were well advertised in the media. Why didn't you all come and voice your concerns then? If you had actually come to the public consultations you would have seen that concerns raised at these meetings were taken into account and the alignment of the highway revised through the Oropouche Swamp.


The EIAs prepared for the entire project were available for public comment. The highway alignment was no secret. Where were Kublalsingh et. al.? Why all the fuss now?


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Sumana.00
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:25 pm 
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pyung99 wrote:

wah is d compensation package again? i don't find relocation to hdc housing should be acceptable.
r



if you'd read the thread properly u'd see that i said they are getting land + money + whatever can be salvaged from the house structure (doors, windows, roof, etc)


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pyung99
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:34 pm 
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dey don't seem pleased with the proposed compensation package....


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Sumana.00
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:36 pm 
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pyung99 wrote:
dey don't seem pleased with the proposed compensation package....


The minority isn't.


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pyung99
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:56 pm 
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if a roadway was to decide to want to exist on my property, i would find mehself being part of the minority as well yes. i have attended a few consultations (*edit* not related to this issue), and i don't really find it draws nationwide awareness. it is the ensuing protest action that makes the big headlines.


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Habit7
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:48 am 
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Although I agree with the project, I agree it is hard to displace oneself, move to separate communities than your neighbours and have the responsibility of constructing a new home, especially with hassle of contractors and the stress on the elderly. They should reconstruct the village with similar but contemporary living conditions and transplant the community not just buy them out.


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Rory Phoulorie
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Habit7 wrote:
Although I agree with the project, I agree it is hard to displace oneself, move to separate communities than your neighbours and have the responsibility of constructing a new home, especially with hassle of contractors and the stress on the elderly. They should reconstruct the village with similar but contemporary living conditions and transplant the community not just buy them out.


As far as I know, NIDCO was trying to source a large enough area of State owned land where they could construct the infrastructure (roads, water, sewerage, electricity and telephone) in a development to relocate the displaced residents. The residents would be allocated a parcel of land for them to construct the house that they want. The same area would have larger 5 acre (I think) parcels for displaced BONAFIDE farmers.

Some of these "residents" are just being mischievous.


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Habit7
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:22 pm 
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^^^Well as unclear as you are about the future for the protesters, so are they. The gov't needs assuage the legitimate fears of these ppl. Like it or not they have a right to protest.


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Sumana.00
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:37 pm 
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Rory Phoulorie wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
Although I agree with the project, I agree it is hard to displace oneself, move to separate communities than your neighbours and have the responsibility of constructing a new home, especially with hassle of contractors and the stress on the elderly. They should reconstruct the village with similar but contemporary living conditions and transplant the community not just buy them out.


As far as I know, NIDCO was trying to source a large enough area of State owned land where they could construct the infrastructure (roads, water, sewerage, electricity and telephone) in a development to relocate the displaced residents. The residents would be allocated a parcel of land for them to construct the house that they want. The same area would have larger 5 acre (I think) parcels for displaced BONAFIDE farmers.

Some of these "residents" are just being mischievous.


I think they already allocated land yunno, will tell you soon


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Mudboy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:53 pm 
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SmokeyGTi wrote:
Image

If they re-route this then fyzabad and san francique have no access to the highway...they have to slum it through creek traffic.
THAT MAKES NO SENSE.


On seeing this....that new proposed path makes no sense.

But, how much of those agricultural lands are actually owned by the people planting on them?


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aspsounds
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:26 pm 
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So i just call home to see whats the big issue...
From what I can see the main issue is compensation package.

I talked to one of the displaced residents .. He finished constructing his house last yr at a cost of 1M. He has a young family and a mortgage of 750k. The government is giving him a small HDC house and 600K. Its something ....

BUT

My take is you should replace what you are taking away (like with like) . Logically, you should look at the square footage of the house and area of land and estimate the price to construct a similar structure (lets not be ignorant.. cement went up, labour(uk spelling for english teachers) as well the stress of moving).. This will require up to date estimations and not base the calculations on some 1940 formula and 'rural' vs 'urban' exponent.

As for the HDC houses...lets be honest... if you worked hard all your life and built a two story structure, will you settle for a two room HDC cowshed?

Just my take... I must say I am interested in the final package if one is currently being prepared... In my investigations, the current one is unfair and does not take into account the realities of present day economics.


Cheers


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nervewrecker
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:29 pm 
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:bump: for the dude that posted above.


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Ted_v2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:52 pm 
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aspsounds wrote:
So i just call home to see whats the big issue...
From what I can see the main issue is compensation package.

I talked to one of the displaced residents .. He finished constructing his house last yr at a cost of 1M. He has a young family and a mortgage of 750k. The government is giving him a small HDC house and 600K. Its something ....

BUT

My take is you should replace what you are taking away (like with like) . Logically, you should look at the square footage of the house and area of land and estimate the price to construct a similar structure (lets not be ignorant.. cement went up, labour(uk spelling for english teachers) as well the stress of moving).. This will require up to date estimations and not base the calculations on some 1940 formula and 'rural' vs 'urban' exponent.

As for the HDC houses...lets be honest... if you worked hard all your life and built a two story structure, will you settle for a two room HDC cowshed?

Cheers


Well Said


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MonsterPower
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:35 pm 
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proposed route still use the creek.. only a single lane available.. plus more wetland will be displaced by the creek.

those few i know they just making trouble as there will always be people opposed to change


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pete
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:52 pm 
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What happens if he takes the money and house from the government and stops paying his mortgage and tells the bank "take it nah"?


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aspsounds
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:40 am 
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I dont know...


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RIPEBREDFRUIT
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:26 am 
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Sumana.00 wrote:
pyung99 wrote:
dey don't seem pleased with the proposed compensation package....


The minority isn't.

THEY NEVER are,


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Team Loco
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:27 am 
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RIPEBREDFRUIT wrote:
Sumana.00 wrote:
pyung99 wrote:
dey don't seem pleased with the proposed compensation package....


The minority isn't.

THEY NEVER are,


correct!!


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nervewrecker
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:32 am 
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/_4m ... 95445.html

Quote:
Brazilian company Construtora OAS Ltd, the main contractor for the Point Fortin Highway extension, has estimated the total cost of its delayed operations at US$593,082.87 or almost TT$4 million.
Construtora OAS has not yet filed a claim to the National Infrastructure Development Company (Nidco), but its programme management consultant AECOM, has already put together a claim summary for Nidco's consideration so that it could be repaid the cost of the delays.
It used information from a claim submission from Construtora OAS which was sent to project manager AECOM on June 12, 2012 and was e-mailed to Earl Wilson, a senior project manager at Nidco, on July 4.
The Sunday Express obtained a copy of the claim summary which stated: "The Contractor is asserting that the contractor was prepared to start the construction of the road worked at Debe on 21 April 2012. However, due to the occupation and other activities along the proposed highway alignment by members and supporters of the Highway Re-Route Movement, the Contractor was unable to proceed further in any works within this segment. Further to this, the Contractor is additionally asserting that this delay caused by the Highway Re-Route Movement has caused financial damages due to idle time of equipment that was brought on site to perform the works at this location and from labour forces to perform these works that were on site and required support by the Contractor during the delay period."
The memo noted that the US$593,082.87 amount was broken down into three points of claim- 50 calendar days of work, loss due to ineffective or idle construction equipment and labour and the fact that works for this area now pushed into the rain season with the potential for further delays and additional cost.
The memo stated that the US$593,08287 includes the ten-hour cost of claim preparation which was billed at US$163 an hour and a ten per cent overheads and profit as per contract at US$53,916.62, indirect costs at US$56,223.75, labour costs at US$14,906.25 and equipment idle cost at US$466,406.25.
However, additional information from Costrutora shows that the US$537,536.25 was itemised into 15 areas:
1. Manpower—inclusive of local and expat payroll, school costs, language, health insurance, provision dismissal and provisional manpower costs ( vacations etc).
2. Housing.
3. Consultancy—some of which include Pembury Consultants T&T Limited, Project Management Group Ltd and Survey Services.
4. Security.
5. Cars.
6. Laboratory and Surveying.
7. Materials and furniture.
8. Meals.
9. Travels.
10. Bus.
11. Camp Site—Camp Site Maintenance, Cleaning Services.
12. Hotels.
13. Services in General—which include Waste Disposals, Ambulance Services Portable Toilets.
14. Utilities.
15. General Expenses—under which were security services (already itemised), consultancy services (already itemised), waste disposals (already itemised), portable toilets (already itemised) and English classes among others.
The memo noted, under the title of "Current Disposition of Claim", that the claim was "received by the engineer of the contractor on 12 June 2012, this claim is currently under analysis by the Engineer's team and no recommendations or determinations have been made as of the date of this memorandum"
It further noted: "In accordance to FIDIC requirements, Section 20.1, the Contractor is required to submit a note of claim within 28 days of the Contactor's awareness of a claim situation and submit the claim with appropriate backup materials within 42 days of the Contractor's awareness of same claim situation."
On June 27, National Security Minister Jack Warner had overseen the demolition of the Highway Re-route Movement's campsite. Workers from Construtora OAS were also present.
In defending Warner's action a day later, Attorney General Anand Ramlogan had said Warner had saved the country millions of dollars.
Contacted for comment on the matter last night, Ramlogan (who is out of the country) said the matter was of grave concern in light of the unfavourable experience the government has had in unravelling numerous claims from mis-managed mega projects in the recent past.
"The hidden costs in a billion-dollar highway project are quite significant. We cannot afford to throw money in the pockets of international contractors who are not at fault. I will vigorously assert the rights of the State in the public interest to protect the public purse," he said.


And what have I been saying as of lately?

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Deb ... 95385.html

Quote:
RESIDENTS of Debe and Penal gathered with placards as they called for the Solomon Hochoy Highway Extension to Point Fortin to be built.
In a show of support for Government's plans, about 70 residents stood near the construction site yesterday morning.
They told reporters that the Highway Re-Route Movement, the group against the construction of the highway, has been misrepresenting the people of Debe and Penal.
"The people from the Re-Route Movement are giving the area a bad name by saying the people from Debe are protesting against the highway...We are interested in having the highway constructed for the betterment of the people and the country," resident Nizam Mohammed said.
The Debe to Point Fortin Highway Action Committee said the building of the highway had become of utmost importance as it would help to alleviate traffic problems.
Mohammed also said that they were assured that measures would be put in place to help stop flooding in the area.
He said the group has no plans to confront the Re-Route Movement or to act against any orders that may be made by the court with regards to the highway.
Another resident, Edward Moodie, claimed that only one resident from the Highway Re-Route Movement stands to be affected by the building of the highway.
The group's support yesterday for the construction of the highway is contrary to the Re-Route Movement's call for the project to be scrapped.
Two Wednesdays ago, Minster of National Security Jack Warner and members of the Defence Force demolished the Movement's camp site which was located near the construction area.
It was rebuilt three days later by the group at a different site but broken down by them last week Monday.
A group of women then took their plight in front of the Hall of Justice, Port of Spain.
Yesterday the group leader, environmental activist Dr Wayne Kublalsingh, said the women plan to enter the court.
"They will take some papers from the lawyers and they will go into the Hall of Justice and they will file those papers next week."


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nervewrecker
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:47 am 
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/photos/T ... img=10&c=y

some pics of the work being done so far.


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UML
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:56 pm 
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:oops: sorry


Last edited by UML on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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nervewrecker
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:59 pm 
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UML....have you looked 2 posts above your's?


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UML
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:03 pm 
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COP on a fact finding mission....they want to get the truth of this situation and a balanced point of view

:|


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UML
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:12 pm 
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COP group asks PM to fire Jack Warner *chant and be merry*


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shady23
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:27 am 
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Steups I hope they build that Mondesir section asap yes, I fed up with traffic on that fcuking creek just to reach to and from Sando.


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UML
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:23 am 
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see the TRUTH on CTV now!!!

these reroute protestors dont even live in the area!!!!

files bussin!!!


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UML
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:30 am 
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The lady with the hijab...doesnt even live in the path of the highway

another one buy land last year knowing fully well that the highway was coming through the area

another man who had a story in the papers with a picture carrying grass on his head..doesnt even have a rabbit

Dr Kublalsingh is a UWI Literature Lectuerer............an Environmental Activist NOT AN ENVIRONMENTALIST

ReRoute Movement....ALLYUH DEAD!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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UML
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:32 am 
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Kublalsingh states he is indeed NOT an environmentalist :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

man boil down like bhagi!!!!


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