Barbados UBI

[De Dragon]

Thoughts?

The Barbados government proposed giving its citizens universal basic income.

It's unclear how much the UBI would be, but Barbados' reverse-tax-credit grant is US$644 a year.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/first-barbad ... 49091.html

[DMan7]

And let's address the elephant in the room, the question everyone in here most likely gonna ask.

When is T&T gonna give their citizens a UBI?

[zoom rader]

1% , red government minsters and agents all stole our UBI

[VexXx Dogg]

And let's address the elephant in the room, the question everyone in here most likely gonna ask.

When is T&T gonna give their citizens a UBI?

UBI with deficit budgets?
Look at barbados' deficit and it's trending upward.
TT's curve is in the wrong direction.
We need to create more value and bring in more revenue then we can even think UBI.

I mean I'm not an economist, and I'm sure there are complex explanations here, but IMHO
impossibru.jpg

[The_Honourable]

Have my reservations about UBI especially for T&T which is discussed here: https://trinituner.com/v4/forums/viewto ... 4&t=763624

But... you never know until you start implementing the idea. If Mottley and her technocrats thinks it is a good idea, and they have the finances to do so, go for it.

[Redman]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

[MaxPower]

Ask the PM, ent she is the best thing since rice and peas.

With she oh so inspiring bess speech.

[Dohplaydat]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

Ubi doesn't mean people will automatically lose incentives, infact it could be a big catalyst in encouraging entrepreneurshi, higher education and reduction in crime.

Basically Trinidad should have done this since Manning's oil boom. We'd be in a much better position today.

And yes there are negatives but once a country can afford it and I believe we could have, it greatly benefits the economy.

[hover11]

The very first class in economics will tell you this is a bad idea for any Caribbean country, this will actually drive small business owners to bankruptcy, how can I afford to pay my workers a universal basic wage if ppl are not able to afford products and services, I will be forced to reduce my staff or increase my prices or both .The larger enterprises will increase their prices for products and services to make up for the lost of revenue to pay more wages to lower end staff and business men never lose. Bad idea all around tbh don't know which is worse between this and the clamoring of increasing the minimum wage. Also I guess we forgot about something called inflation , what happens when too much money circulates in an economy

[Redman]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

Ubi doesn't mean people will automatically lose incentives, infact it could be a big catalyst in encouraging entrepreneurshi, higher education and reduction in crime.

Basically Trinidad should have done this since Manning's oil boom. We'd be in a much better position today.

And yes there are negatives but once a country can afford it and I believe we could have, it greatly benefits the economy.

3000x1.3m is about 4b.

Plus admin.

Tell us how we affording another 4 b a year in social programs.

[hover11]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

Ubi doesn't mean people will automatically lose incentives, infact it could be a big catalyst in encouraging entrepreneurshi, higher education and reduction in crime.

Basically Trinidad should have done this since Manning's oil boom. We'd be in a much better position today.

And yes there are negatives but once a country can afford it and I believe we could have, it greatly benefits the economy.

3000x1.3m is about 4b.

Plus admin.

Tell us how we affording another 4 b a year in social programs.

Them feel we are like the US and could just print money and value is created. We are a Caribbean country facing a recession, I don't care what moody ,IMF or Terrence mammy say, deficit budget after deficit budget means generations to come gonna immensely suffer

[Dohplaydat]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

Ubi doesn't mean people will automatically lose incentives, infact it could be a big catalyst in encouraging entrepreneurshi, higher education and reduction in crime.

Basically Trinidad should have done this since Manning's oil boom. We'd be in a much better position today.

And yes there are negatives but once a country can afford it and I believe we could have, it greatly benefits the economy.

3000x1.3m is about 4b.

Plus admin.

Tell us how we affording another 4 b a year in social programs.

Them feel we are like the US and could just print money and value is created. We are a Caribbean country facing a recession, I don't care what moody ,IMF or Terrence mammy say, deficit budget after deficit budget means generations to come gonna immensely suffer

It's not money wasted though and it removes funding from many other social programs.

Lots of it will be recouped in taxes via economic activity and VAT. The net benefit to society and the economy will outweigh the negatives. Lots of economic models show this.

The more money people have in hand the better the economy.

Now I'm not saying we can afford it now (thought we still might be able too).

I was initially thinking something like $1800 a month to all over 18s minus retirees who get pension and NIS. So that will cost $15B a year. That's something not out of the realm of affordability for Trinidad.

That may not seem like a lot, but in households with 2 or more adults, that adds up a lot!

[hover11]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

Ubi doesn't mean people will automatically lose incentives, infact it could be a big catalyst in encouraging entrepreneurshi, higher education and reduction in crime.

Basically Trinidad should have done this since Manning's oil boom. We'd be in a much better position today.

And yes there are negatives but once a country can afford it and I believe we could have, it greatly benefits the economy.

3000x1.3m is about 4b.

Plus admin.

Tell us how we affording another 4 b a year in social programs.

Them feel we are like the US and could just print money and value is created. We are a Caribbean country facing a recession, I don't care what moody ,IMF or Terrence mammy say, deficit budget after deficit budget means generations to come gonna immensely suffer

It's not money wasted though and it removes funding from many other social programs.

Lots of it will be recouped in taxes via economic activity and VAT. The net benefit to society and the economy will outweigh the negatives. Lots of economic models show this.

The more money people have in hand the better the economy.

Now I'm not saying we can afford it now (thought we still might be able too).

I was initially thinking something like $1800 a month to all over 18s minus retirees who get pension and NIS. So that will cost $15B a year. That's something not out of the realm of affordability for Trinidad.

That may not seem like a lot, but in households with 2 or more adults, that adds up a lot!

There is a reason why there is something called the haves and haves not,it creates equilibrium. Money in too many people hands suffers the economy.Our economy needs to focus on cutting initiatives and not adding more dependency syndrome. CEPEP, URP needs to be cut or severely minimized or we spinning top in mud

[dogg]

If our past governments were serious about our country,
the H&S fund would have been at least 5x what it is now.

This is one of the reasons I tell people that Manning was the worst PM this country ever had.

The amount of money he squandered on foolishness makes me cringe anytime I think of it.

$B summits, empty skyscrapers, construction sprees that overheated the industry - that is still felt up to this day.
Its too much to quantify really.

Don't forget too, he once famously said that he didn't believe in saving surpluses... spend spend spend!

On that same token, Kamla was the 2nd worse.

[hover11]

If our past governments were serious about our country,
the H&S fund would have been at least 5x what it is now.

This is one of the reasons I tell people that Manning was the worst PM this country ever had.

The amount of money he squandered on foolishness makes me cringe anytime I think of it.

$B summits, empty skyscrapers, construction sprees that overheated the industry - that is still felt up to this day.
Its too much to quantify really.

Don't forget too, he once famously said that he didn't believe in saving surpluses... spend spend spend!

On that same token, Kamla was the 2nd worse.

Man believed in his "vision 2020"

[Redman]

Not necessarily.
If the deficits are being run in order to develop value creating assets then run them.

If we build an enterprise that is generating more than the cost of funds ....and is sustainable..then by all means borrow
The currency we paying back is worth less every year...we should be exchanging Fiat for things that hold value.


If we run surpluses we should be allocating to a wealth fund...that will....create portfolios of value creating/income generating assets with low correlation/causal relationship to our economy...

If that SWF generating surplus....at that point we get into social support.

[hover11]

Not necessarily.
If the deficits are being run in order to develop value creating assets then run them.

If we build an enterprise that is generating more than the cost of funds ....and is sustainable..then by all means borrow
The currency we paying back is worth less every year...we should be exchanging Fiat for things that hold value.


If we run surpluses we should be allocating to a wealth fund...that will....create portfolios of value creating/income generating assets with low correlation/causal relationship to our economy...

If that SWF generating surplus....at that point we get into social support.

Redman,

Our problem is none of our programmes or initiatives create value, when they are first announced by politicians they appear to look good on paper,however, somewhere along the line checks and balances are lost and the entire operation goes off track or becomes a runaway horse case in point our social security initiatives such as ministry of social welfare . When did we become a welfare state allowing so many programmes under one body. CEPEP and URP needs heavy restructuring are we honestly getting value for money there?

[zoom rader]

We need value creation not more dependency on the state.

It will stagnate the economy becoming like Tobago.

If all new biz has to compete with the state for labor of any quality it will stifle innovation.



Cepep is already doing this to some extent.

Ubi doesn't mean people will automatically lose incentives, infact it could be a big catalyst in encouraging entrepreneurshi, higher education and reduction in crime.

Basically Trinidad should have done this since Manning's oil boom. We'd be in a much better position today.

And yes there are negatives but once a country can afford it and I believe we could have, it greatly benefits the economy.

Trinidad did but our UBI went into the hands of 1%, red government family and friends.

Citizens UBI was stolen