Service Charge

[Sivic Distributors]

Firstly let me say i did a search and i didn't come up with anything on the subject.

My post is not to bash any particular establishment, as i know this is against the forum rules, but to shed some light on the topic of service charges that are added to our bills at restaurants, bars and the sorts.

Of lately i have been treated to some very disappointing service at various popular establishments throughout the country. This made me wonder why i was paying service charge when in my opinion it wasn't deserved.

What i found out during my research was that this charge is not a statutory charge like that of VAT, meaning it is not a mandatory charge and one reserve the right to refuse to pay it whether or not you feel the service was good or bad.

So there you have it, you don't have to pay service charge and i implore you to exercise this right if you feel it is not deserving, so that these establishments would not continue to treat us the way they do.

[r3iXmann]

it's also your right to complain about poor service, though.

i recently went to a restuarant,ordered some food and it was very substandard..i complained the to manager on duty and she gave me a replacement free

[AllTrac]

Sivic Distributors, thanks, didnt know that. If i got bad service i would normally just leave them a shiddy tip, like one dollar, that kindda drives the point home than leaving no tip at all.

[pioneer]

You've saved my life Sivic...thanks for info

[Sivic Distributors]

I waited over an hour for food at a restaurant in movietowne. I had a beer while waiting. When i couldn't wait anymore i canceled the order and asked for the bill only to see them charging service charge, which made me furious btw. Not knowing what the law was on the topic i paid it, but that led me to do the research on the matter whereupon my i discovered that you don't have to pay the service charge.

[1UZFE]

thanks hoss....!!!
Dont know when a Consumer rights department would be "implemented" in Trinidad.....
Also in stores when there is a sign saying "No Returns" that sign is illegal. As long as you have your receipt you have a stipulated time to return the product for a full refund.

[[X]~Outlaw]

thanks hoss....!!!
Dont know when a Consumer rights department would be "implemented" in Trinidad.....
Also in stores when there is a sign saying "No Returns" that sign is illegal. As long as you have your receipt you have a stipulated time to return the product for a full refund.

Its called consumer affairs...I've used them many times, you should see how fast companies resolve issues once they get involve.

[webb]

I waited over an hour for food at a restaurant in movietowne. I had a beer while waiting. When i couldn't wait anymore i canceled the order and asked for the bill only to see them charging service charge, which made me furious btw. Not knowing what the law was on the topic i paid it, but that led me to do the research on the matter whereupon my i discovered that you don't have to pay the service charge.

Where did you get you information

[1UZFE]

thanks hoss....!!!
Dont know when a Consumer rights department would be "implemented" in Trinidad.....
Also in stores when there is a sign saying "No Returns" that sign is illegal. As long as you have your receipt you have a stipulated time to return the product for a full refund.

Its called consumer affairs...I've used them many times, you should see how fast companies resolve issues once they get involve.

Ah no but its like they dont exist...
In d past they had programs on tv to highlight consumer rights and also how to be aware when goin to the market, but now they disappear...

[Sivic Distributors]

I waited over an hour for food at a restaurant in movietowne. I had a beer while waiting. When i couldn't wait anymore i canceled the order and asked for the bill only to see them charging service charge, which made me furious btw. Not knowing what the law was on the topic i paid it, but that led me to do the research on the matter whereupon my i discovered that you don't have to pay the service charge.

Where did you get you information

Consulted a few attorneys on the matter. I also spoke to couple restaurant workers who confirmed that other consumers who are aware of this don't pay the service charge.

[King Kool]

We bend over to provide a high level of service to our customers. After a hard days work, you go to another establishment & generally the customer service is always almost non existent. It is depressing, but then again you have to remember the level of common sense these ppl have & also lack of work incentive.

[uncle sam]

We bend over to provide a high level of service to our customers. After a hard days work, you go to another establishment & generally the customer service is always almost non existent. It is depressing, but then again you have to remember the level of common sense these ppl have & also lack of work incentive.

eh heh

[Bareback]

I think that generally the level of poor service is indicative of management as well as the individual's own attitude. In many cases where the management style is poor, almost dictatorial, it is reflected in the manner in which you are treated. In some cases also, the attitude of the individual trumps that of the poor management style and you are engaged in a truly great experience.

In one instance at TGIF Gulf City, the service was so incredible that my daughter insisted that I leave the server $40 on a $150 bill. I think the only thing she did not do was feed the food to us. The order was exactly as we wanted and we never had am empty glass nor had to wait for her attention. We definitely rewarded her by also letting her manager know what a diamond in the rough she was.

Now leaving a $1 tip to drive the point home, I like that idea as I usually don't leave a tip if the service is bad.

I also think that sometimes we are to blame for the poor service, our own bad attitude can evoke a retaliatory response whereby we create the bad experience; although in this country it is hard to get consistently good service, it is almost expected that you will receive bad service. And now that I know, I will also not be paying the service charge for poor service.

[AllTrac]

i need more information on the legality of this, wrt not paying the service charges because if we have the right to refuse to pay the service charge I for one as a consumer will exercise that right.

When you go to other countries and eat in what the locals would call the lower end fast food joints the service there would trump the service we get here in the higher end restaurants, not even fast food places here. I am very outspoken to the managers when it comes to bad service (when i have my food infront of me ofcourse) many times my gf and family would tell me to just forget it or be quiet cause to them its embarrassing and i think thats the problem, we just like to accept anything which in turn sets the bar very low.

[VexXx Dogg]

I'm probably guilty of taking bad service and staying quiet, but that establishment will never get a cent from me or my children, or my children's children ever again for all time.

[KURMAman]

thanks hoss....!!!
Dont know when a Consumer rights department would be "implemented" in Trinidad.....
Also in stores when there is a sign saying "No Returns" that sign is illegal. As long as you have your receipt you have a stipulated time to return the product for a full refund.

Its called consumer affairs...I've used them many times, you should see how fast companies resolve issues once they get involve.

x100
Many times i've had bad service, and i simply ask for the employee and manager's name and that i will be contacting consumer affairs.. U'll be surprised how fast that frown turns upside down.

[rodfarva]

thanks hoss....!!!
Dont know when a Consumer rights department would be "implemented" in Trinidad.....
Also in stores when there is a sign saying "No Returns" that sign is illegal. As long as you have your receipt you have a stipulated time to return the product for a full refund.

Its called consumer affairs...I've used them many times, you should see how fast companies resolve issues once they get involve.

Ah no but its like they dont exist...
In d past they had programs on tv to highlight consumer rights and also how to be aware when goin to the market, but now they disappear...

not true at all

the CONSUMER - we are the problem. we take bad service and return the next week to the same establishment.
WE buy items from places that have a "NO REFUND" sign up
we need to grow some balls and take a stand.

[Sivic Distributors]

i need more information on the legality of this, wrt not paying the service charges because if we have the right to refuse to pay the service charge I for one as a consumer will exercise that right.

When you go to other countries and eat in what the locals would call the lower end fast food joints the service there would trump the service we get here in the higher end restaurants, not even fast food places here. I am very outspoken to the managers when it comes to bad service (when i have my food infront of me ofcourse) many times my gf and family would tell me to just forget it or be quiet cause to them its embarrassing and i think thats the problem, we just like to accept anything which in turn sets the bar very low.

To shed some light on your concern, let me say this, through my extensive research and professional inquiries there is no law validating this charge. I asked a couple of highly ranked attorneys and legal minds and you wouldn't believe they themselves never really gave much thought to the charge until i made my inquiries. They all consulted the laws and legal precedents and found no authority for this charge. What this means is that there is no law imposing this charge but there is also no law regulating or prohibiting this charge. As such it is discretionary for both the proprietors to impose the charges and the customers to pay it.

I spoke to certain managers and workers of establishments and the following is what i was told:

From managers: the service charge is for the waiters (tips).

From workers: Management takes the service charge and give the worker a percentage of the service charge, in most case 30 percent of the service charge.

So in essence you are "double tipping". What an employee told me was that customer who are aware of their right to refuse to pay the service charge exercise that right and then give the service charge to the waiter as their tip.

I have done this ever since being enlighten on the matter 2 weeks ago.

[ruff neck chicken]

i need more information on the legality of this, wrt not paying the service charges because if we have the right to refuse to pay the service charge I for one as a consumer will exercise that right.

Same here, but at the same time how does one not pay service charge ?

Just short the bill, minus the service charge from total and walk out?
Should i bring it to their attention that you are not paying service charge?
I'm sure alot of waiters/managers are not aware of the service charge being optional, what are we supposed to do when they say it is compulsory?

[AllTrac]

interesting...

[Sivic Distributors]

i need more information on the legality of this, wrt not paying the service charges because if we have the right to refuse to pay the service charge I for one as a consumer will exercise that right.

Same here, but at the same time how does one not pay service charge ?

Just short the bill, minus the service charge from total and walk out?
Should i bring it to their attention that you are not paying service charge?
I'm sure alot of waiters/managers are not aware of the service charge being optional, what are we supposed to do when they say it is compulsory?

When you asking for your bill tell them you are not paying service charge. That is what i do.
The first time they had already brought the bill so i told them i wasn't paying service charge at which point they went back inside, adjusted the bill and returned it to me, but the better practice is to tell them you are not paying service charge when you ask for the bill because believe it or not they charge you vat on the service charge as well.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

What this means is that there is no law imposing this charge but there is also no law regulating or prohibiting this charge. As such it is discretionary for both the proprietors to impose the charges and the customers to pay it.

I'm concerned about this part because what I'm thinking is once you are presented with the bill after consuming the service, however poor, the price on the bill is what you must pay. It would be no different then from getting a bill for a steak at $400 and claiming you are not paying it because the size of steak you got costs only $84 in the supermarket. That steak at that restaurant costs $400, complain how much you want, that is what you owe them. Your argument so far is that the service was not worth the amount stated on the service charge, however you still need to pay it.

WRT to double tipping, tips are not mandatory. So while I think you still have to pay the service charge, you are well within your right not to tip.

[Sivic Distributors]

What this means is that there is no law imposing this charge but there is also no law regulating or prohibiting this charge. As such it is discretionary for both the proprietors to impose the charges and the customers to pay it.

I'm concerned about this part because what I'm thinking is once you are presented with the bill after consuming the service, however poor, the price on the bill is what you must pay. It would be no different then from getting a bill for a steak at $400 and claiming you are not paying it because the size of steak you got costs only $84 in the supermarket. That steak at that restaurant costs $400, complain how much you want, that is what you owe them. Your argument so far is that the service was not worth the amount stated on the service charge, however you still need to pay it.

WRT to double tipping, tips are not mandatory. So while I think you still have to pay the service charge, you are well within your right not to tip.

Duane i have spoken to numerous establishment owners and managers (all at movietowne and Mr. Chin himself) and they all have acknowledged that no customer is required to pay the service charge. Also please bear in mind it's not the cost of the food or whatever you have consumed that you are refusing to pay but the service charge as outline in the bill....

[ruff neck chicken]

^^^ But isnt service charge for the service not the product? Regardless of how good or bad the product is if you get that same $84 steak with really great service would you not pay the service charge even tho the restaurant charge is $400?

I'm pretty sure chaud does not pay $400 for a steak but their service is pretty good imho.

[TRAE]

i wanna know why i need to pay service fees when the bill has it incorporated

[Stephon.]

I agree with bareback, sometimes the customers attitudes can reflect on the service you get.

One time I was in KFC (yes I stepped in the jungle) and the cashier seemed pissed off at life and just annoyed at everything, when I went up to her, I made a few jokes with her and I got an extra piece of chicken :p

Left the jungle safely. Gangsta for life.

[Sivic Distributors]

I agree with bareback, sometimes the customers attitudes can reflect on the service you get.

One time I was in KFC (yes I stepped in the jungle) and the cashier seemed pissed off at life and just annoyed at everything, when I went up to her, I made a few jokes with her and I got an extra piece of chicken :p

Left the jungle safely. Gangsta for life.

Lamo....well done mayne

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

What this means is that there is no law imposing this charge but there is also no law regulating or prohibiting this charge. As such it is discretionary for both the proprietors to impose the charges and the customers to pay it.

I'm concerned about this part because what I'm thinking is once you are presented with the bill after consuming the service, however poor, the price on the bill is what you must pay. It would be no different then from getting a bill for a steak at $400 and claiming you are not paying it because the size of steak you got costs only $84 in the supermarket. That steak at that restaurant costs $400, complain how much you want, that is what you owe them. Your argument so far is that the service was not worth the amount stated on the service charge, however you still need to pay it.

WRT to double tipping, tips are not mandatory. So while I think you still have to pay the service charge, you are well within your right not to tip.

Duane i have spoken to numerous establishment owners and managers (all at movietowne and Mr. Chin himself) and they all have acknowledged that no customer is required to pay the service charge. Also please bear in mind it's not the cost of the food or whatever you have consumed that you are refusing to pay but the service charge as outline in the bill....

I didnt' say you are refusing to pay for the food, I was drawing an analogy from the example with the steak.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you posted this - good looking out!

I'm not discounting your noble research and what these people say. I'm saying that if there are no definitive guidelines or laws, then it is, as you said, at the discretion of the establishment to charge you whatever service charge they want and so it will remain an argument/complaint/inconvenience each time you have a bill to pay if you wish to hold up your beliefs. Unless of course you plan to take this to another level and have the Consumer Affairs Division of the Ministry of Legal Affairs make it law. Until then I prefer not to have a planned argument with the manager of each restaurant every time I take my wife out for dinner!

I'm just saying...

[Stephon.]

I dunno though, I'd be too scared to tell them I'm not paying the service charge, I'd just not leave a tip, or I'd try that tipping a dollar method

[AllTrac]

take me to dinner Duane and you can argue all you want.