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Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

this is how we do it.......

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Re: Anil say

Postby link » May 9th, 2012, 7:08 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:I think there is great misunderstanding and lack of information here.
Why don't you call TTASA and find out what they are doing?
Infact call TTRC, CARS, TTKA and ARA too!

you would be surprised at the amount of work that is done daily outside of having events. ALot of letters, meetings, lobbying etc etc with various Ministry heads in different ministries and state organisations.

DO NOT think that nothing is being done. I can say for a fact that ALOT is being done by ALL these associations - however the fact remains that without unity there will be no support form the Ministry of Sport.

The reasons are complex, however the simplest way I can explain the entire problem IMO is like this:
Unity depends on forming a General Council that has all the major motor sport clubs in T&T.

A General Council without the major players will not be supported by the Ministry of Sport.

The clubs who have not joined will only do so if the General Council is the NGB where they are equal to TTASA. They will not join if they must be below TTASA in the eyes of the Ministry. They don't mind however if TTASA retains the ASN status with FIA.

However TTASA will not yield since they are already the NGB. The NGB is the only body the Ministry will deal with (in theory).

These associations are busy 24/7, including TTASA and are doing ALOT to push their structure of motorsport - however it is not meshing at alot of levels and the Ministry will not support unless they do mesh.

--------------------------------------

If your grouse is with TTASA alone, then join the association and move up through the ranks to effect change by way of vote. I believe the TTASA AGM / elections is in July 2012.

some clarity here, Duane..
unity & the way forward is for the Motor Sport General Council to represent the RECOGNISED motor sport disciplines, not 'clubs', then those fledgling disciplines not internationally recognised but an important part of the local motor sport landscape.
ONLY WHEN THE MSGC HAS THIS OPERATIONAL OVERSIGHT CAN THE MOTOR RACING INDUSTRY POSITIVELY MOVE FORWARD (in any capacity).
rgds

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Re: Anil say

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 9th, 2012, 7:40 pm

^ my mistake

the general council should not have representatives from every single club. The general council should have representatives from every single discipline. i.e. it should not have 4 rally clubs sitting on the council, instead it should have a member/s sitting on the council representing rallying.

Correct me if I'm wrong Link, doesn't the current general council set up by TTASA have TTUNDRA, Horizon Motorsport, V8 club, TTNSA, Mini Club etc all sitting on the council?

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Re: Anil say

Postby sMASH » May 9th, 2012, 7:45 pm

would u mind putting up an org chart of ttasa right now and a potential org chart if other groups come together under your banner?

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Re: Anil say

Postby wagonrunner » May 9th, 2012, 8:11 pm

link wrote:the Motor Sport General Council to represent the RECOGNISED motor sport disciplines, not 'clubs',
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:the general council should not have representatives from every single club. The general council should have representatives from every single discipline. i.e. it should not have 4 rally clubs sitting on the council, instead it should have a member/s sitting on the council representing rallying.

Correct me if I'm wrong Link, doesn't the current general council set up by TTASA have TTUNDRA, Horizon Motorsport, V8 club, TTNSA, Mini Club etc all sitting on the council?[/b]

Pray tell what are the RECOGNISED motor sport disciplines represented by:.........

TTUNDRA
Horizon Motorsports
V8 Club
TTNSA
Miniclub
and perhaps the other ETC

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Re: Anil say

Postby link » May 9th, 2012, 11:21 pm

recognised disciplines represented by the various FIA sporting commissions

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/govern ... mms-wg.pdf

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Re: Anil say

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 10th, 2012, 12:52 am

^ I think what wagonrunner was asking for is an org chart of the current T&T Motorsport General Council

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Re: Anil say

Postby X2 » May 10th, 2012, 1:26 am

Ring of roses.... who decides what a recognised organisation is ? What if road racing became a viable sport in TnT... there may form a Road Race club so will this theorhetical new club now need to become part of the general council ?

The idea of having things like V8 car club and mini club, etc as 'affiliates' is silly. Shows lack of direction and organisation. Trinidad motorsports honestly has failed to launch as far back as history takes us. The government itself is willing to concede power to those in better position to judge, so what is an NSO change in the scheme of things ? It may sound like a momentus task, but if you are to properly arrange the foundation of motorsport as a true, viable 'sport' for now and the long term, building on a failed model just does not make sense. NOW is the time to make the change. Our country, it's people, it's economy and it's money are once again passing us by (competitors and enthusiasts) while squabbling goes on.

If the kids won't stop fighting in the back seat... daddy should reach back and smack em shut. Change the order of things. Level out the playing field.

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Re: Anil say

Postby link » May 10th, 2012, 5:23 am

The idea of having things like V8 car club and mini club, etc as 'affiliates' is silly. Shows lack of direction and organisation.


Electric and New Energies Championships Commission
President Burkhard Goeschel
Secretary Carlos Funes – FIA
&
Historic Motor Sport Commission
President John Hughes - MSA
Secretary Frédéric Champlon - Geneva
&
Truck Racing Commission
President Manuel Vidal
Secretary Frédérique Trouvé - Geneva
etc, etc,etc
.
silly.
??
.
What if road racing became a viable sport in TnT... there may form a Road Race club so will this theorhetical new club now need to become part of the general council ?


have you looked at the sport of drifting lately ? It's becoming a 'VIABLE' sport..... :idea:
same thing 'happened' to these guys...:

Hill-Climb Commission
President Paul Gutjahr – Auto Sport Suisse
Secretary Frédéric Champlon - Geneva

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Re: Anil say

Postby SR » May 10th, 2012, 5:58 am

but yet you fail to answer the question link

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Re: Anil say

Postby wagonrunner » May 10th, 2012, 12:08 pm

Allyuh don't recognise the sidstep shuffle?

Image

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Re: Anil say

Postby sMASH » May 10th, 2012, 12:22 pm

we're not combative at this point. all we're asking for is that the the structure of ttasa, now and in the possible future, be shown and a brief description of how it is supposed to operate be shared.

if this body is the governing body to over see all motor sports in tnt, it is simply fair that it be explained to the masses who are interested in motorsports, as well as the stakeholders.

that does not seem too unreasonable.


* i find since i watched top gear in marathon succession, i speak like jeremy in my head*

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Re: Anil say

Postby X2 » May 10th, 2012, 1:58 pm

link wrote:
The idea of having things like V8 car club and mini club, etc as 'affiliates' is silly. Shows lack of direction and organisation.


Electric and New Energies Championships Commission
President Burkhard Goeschel
Secretary Carlos Funes – FIA
&
Historic Motor Sport Commission
President John Hughes - MSA
Secretary Frédéric Champlon - Geneva
&
Truck Racing Commission
President Manuel Vidal
Secretary Frédérique Trouvé - Geneva
etc, etc,etc

.
silly.
??


^^ I was trying not to call it 'stupid'... but if that's what you would prefer.

V8 club, Horizon (car club), Mini club.... versus Historic Motorsport and Truck racing... ... I fail to see the correlation.


link wrote:
What if road racing became a viable sport in TnT... there may form a Road Race club so will this theorhetical new club now need to become part of the general council ?


have you looked at the sport of drifting lately ? It's becoming a 'VIABLE' sport..... :idea:
same thing 'happened' to these guys...:


Not it is not my good fellow. Drifting very much still a demonstration, not viable as a sport as there is no set judgement criteria nor is there an established set of rules or method of scoring.

Hill-Climb Commission
President Paul Gutjahr – Auto Sport Suisse
Secretary Frédéric Champlon - Geneva


To compare a hill climb to drifting is like comparing a circus performance to proper gymnastics.

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Re: Anil say

Postby frustr8ed » May 10th, 2012, 3:17 pm

all yuh trying to get an org chart from TTASA?

TTASA does not even have a treasurer!
Look on their website http://www.ttasa.com/contact.html
Everybody except a treasurer.

So you have the NATIONAL governing body run my a man and his wife and a Link. NONE of them qualified in FIA anything yet they get a free piece of land and a timing system from the government and charging people to come see other people race. They charging the people to race too and charging them for a license they do not need.

This is the governing body that is recognised by the Ministry of Sport and they do not have a treasurer so NOBODY could say where the money going, how much money they have collected or who spending the money and on what. In fact they writing cheque and payment voucher from TTASA funds without a treasurer. Who signing them thing? The president and his wife?

Gov't land, govt timing system, gov't funding they want. Yet go and ask TTASA to see their books and they tell you that you are not a member of TTASA and that is private business. In fact not even affiliate people in TTUNDRA can ask to see TTASA books because we are not TTASA members.

Link, who is the treasurer of TTASA?

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Re: Anil say

Postby link » May 10th, 2012, 3:21 pm

To compare a hill climb to drifting is like comparing a circus performance to proper gymnastics.


but they GOT THERE FROM A START.........the same start u guys are apparently failing to recognise or give credit for.
.
NO LOCAL MOTOR SPORTING DISCIPLINE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND AS LONG AS IT CAN CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY
.
have a good day, 'gentlemen'.

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Re: Anil say

Postby QuietRiot » May 10th, 2012, 3:57 pm

Link you all just like the typical Politicians ,constantly Bullshitting the public,lies and more lies and just filling all yuh pockets...

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Re: Anil say

Postby sMASH » May 10th, 2012, 4:13 pm

sooo, no demonstration of the professionalism and readiness to manage motorsports for tnt?

u have a chance to show why your organization would be the best.

u are already established years ahead of any one else, why not step up and pull the discontented other groups to your fold??

if not pull them, at least demonstrate, provide proof that the accusations flung wildly, against ttasa are not true, and the protest by other orgs and persons are unfounded.



com'on man, step up. the big organization which is the NGB and the general council and the ASN, cannot be afraid to put some lil plebs in their place...





come, make us shut up.

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Re: Anil say

Postby gt4tified » May 10th, 2012, 4:40 pm

link wrote:
To compare a hill climb to drifting is like comparing a circus performance to proper gymnastics.


but they GOT THERE FROM A START.........the same start u guys are apparently failing to recognise or give credit for.
.
NO LOCAL MOTOR SPORTING DISCIPLINE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND AS LONG AS IT CAN CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY
.
have a good day, 'gentlemen'.


I'm trying to understand the context in which the above post was made. Am I wrong in interpreting it to mean that after 40 years in Motorsport, without any demonstrable plan, that we, who continue to be 'led' by TTASA (the NGB/NSO for Motorsport in T&T) are still in effect looking for a 'START'?

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Re: Anil say

Postby X2 » May 10th, 2012, 4:58 pm

link wrote:
To compare a hill climb to drifting is like comparing a circus performance to proper gymnastics.


but they GOT THERE FROM A START.........the same start u guys are apparently failing to recognise or give credit for.


WHAT start ? Be specific...

and keep in mind...many people reading 3ne2nr do not suffer from memory loss....

Link wrote:NO LOCAL MOTOR SPORTING DISCIPLINE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND AS LONG AS IT CAN CONTRIBUTE POSITIVELY


No one left behind ? So there is a plan and hence a goal or maybe even a direction that has been established ?

What is the NSO's long term goal ?
Short term ?
What is the plan for the development of Motorsport in TnT ?
What is the current state of motorsport in TnT ?

We need to understand what a 'minister without portfolio' means.

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Re: Anil say

Postby gt4tified » May 10th, 2012, 5:16 pm

X2 wrote:We need to understand what a 'minister without portfolio' means.


Eh? What name so? I of all people would love to know.

Anyway, I was pondering on this present state of affairs last night but was then too sleepy to post...

If in politics we follow the Westminster system where Leaders (Leader of the Opposition and also the Prime Minister) are so determined by virtue of being the persons who command the majority of support from their respective political benches, why then can't the NGB/NSO be the body that commands the support of the most Motorsport Disciplines?

Food 4 thought.

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Re: Anil say

Postby Dragist » May 10th, 2012, 7:34 pm

Just saw on the News ticker tape thingy that TTASA is looking at Sangre Grande for home for Motorsport's .

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Minister of Sport just got put on BLAST from TTASA President

Postby Sinister_Audio » May 10th, 2012, 7:42 pm

Minister of Sport just got put on BLAST from TTASA President

on an interview tonight, Mr Ali, President of TTASA stated clearly that the Minister of Sport has his facts wrong about motorsporting in Trinidad not getting their act together. Together with Dr Rupert Griffith, talks about land in East, Valencia to be the home for motorsport in Trinidad.

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Re: Minister of Sport just got put on BLAST from TTASA Presi

Postby pugboy » May 10th, 2012, 7:46 pm

"the minister has his facts wrong, everybody is on board with ttasa except ttrc(rally)"

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Re: Anil say

Postby X2 » May 10th, 2012, 7:54 pm

The minister without portfolio in my reference is TTASA.


gt4tified wrote:If in politics we follow the Westminster system where Leaders (Leader of the Opposition and also the Prime Minister) are so determined by virtue of being the persons who command the majority of support from their respective political benches, why then can't the NGB/NSO be the body that commands the support of the most Motorsport Disciplines?

Food 4 thought.



Because then it is simply a popularity contest rather than deciding what is best for the racers and country. I can then start a racing organisation and gain support of many and claim my right as the NSO. Racing is at the hearts of many enthusiasts, tuners, racers and the common man alike. But most of all... Racing is also a business.

If you run a business like you run a government... you will soon be out of business.

Bringing politics so harshly into light will only reveal the absolute truth of the situation... and that is that money and ability to generate income is of greatest importance. An organisation with no focus will go nowhere and as far as I can see, there is no focus in our motorsport NSO. Even when you vote for your choice of political party... they at least have the decency to tell you what they planning to do for your vote. If they didn't and you 'vote for change'... then you really only voting for a verb.

But they getting land in Grande ? Awesome. They going to build a racing complex or they going to build a hut ?

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby SR » May 10th, 2012, 8:44 pm

"the minister has his facts wrong, everybody is on board with ttasa except ttrc(rally)"
TTASA President is the one who has his facts wrong. AutoSport with D&W, CARS with solodex, TTKA with karting, TTRC with rally, TTORC with offroad and TORMATT with motocross are the ones who have been having proper championship racing events YEARS now and they are not "on board" with TTASA. Not even one of them.

On the other hand not one single "affiliate" club who is "on board" with TTASA has ever had a single racing event themselves.

TTASA claim they have a drag racing championship but they only had two championship events so far between November 2011 and May 2012 and it took months for competitors to get their point standings from the first event and probably months to wait again for results from the 2nd event.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby pugboy » May 10th, 2012, 9:30 pm

at least the man can be quoted on tv as saying so with a straight face, lol

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Re: Anil say

Postby gt4tified » May 10th, 2012, 11:25 pm

X2 wrote:
Because then it is simply a popularity contest rather than deciding what is best for the racers and country. I can then start a racing organisation and gain support of many and claim my right as the NSO. Racing is at the hearts of many enthusiasts, tuners, racers and the common man alike. But most of all... Racing is also a business.

If you run a business like you run a government... you will soon be out of business


No it isn't so much a popularity contest as it is an avenue for change, which is how I see it. What else would you do if you were unsatisfied with an NSO that was unwilling to yield leadership, and where the State refuses to intervene? And by support in my previous post I don't mean that of each and every individual but the executive arm of the various Clubs that represent the respective Motorsport disciplines.... i.e. those who were elected to represent the many enthusiasts, tuners, racers and the common man as you put it. And if at the end of the day its the onus of the Ministry of Sport to grant such status, it not simply claiming a right....a proper case etc would have to be made out.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby frustr8ed » May 10th, 2012, 11:42 pm

So let us get some facts straight. Pulling all of the comments made in the last two weeks.

Former Minister Boynes got the Waterloo lands in 2007, now under the control of the Ministry of Sport. Nothing done with this to date. TTASA has been fighting to get their hands on this land, up to the beginning of May, complaining that they wrote the Minister of Sport and he never even acknowledged their letters. The Minister in turn came out with his much publicised statement – “Until all the major players come together he not signing off on any lands.”

Almost at the same time the Tourism Minister jump up and talk about developing a Motor Racing facility in the East. And now we are even hearing Ali talking about lands in Valencia. Is this the same place a certain individual took a few motor sport people to show them some abandoned quarry lands a few years ago?

Today there is this certain individual who at times is described as the PR man on TTASA. And a certain individual who also is a member of the Tourisim Dev. Company. So is this the reason the Tourism Minister can now come out with his statement re Lands in the East?

So Ali talking about Waterloo, and almost at the same time he talking about lands in the east.

But it gets better, this week Minister Karim also makes reference to the government providing lands for motor racing at Waterloo with all sorts of other developments at this same location.

So within the space of one week, two Government Ministers talking about two different locations for developing a motor racing facility.

And the Minister of Sport talking about NOT signing off on any lands until the major players come together.

Major players? But Ali keeps talking about “is only Rallying not on board”. But he supposed to have another Rally Association as an affiliate. Remember they are going to put on a big NACAM International Rally! And of course with all of his other affiliates, everyone looking to see what events these affiliates that represent ALL of the other disciplines have staged.

So to hell with CARS who already staged several events for 2012.
Same thing for the Karting Association.
Same thing for AutoSport with their very popular D&Wine events. Wait a minute. All of these run in a Car Park, so they cannot count. So Mr. Ali did not even mention them.

But if you run at Camden and have FOUR cars in one night run off the track, that counts.

If you have the TTASA / FIA / NACAM gurus who put SAFETY uppermost in everybody’s face, and they allow cars to run on an obviously unsafe track, that counts.

And also say is OK, to have lighting towers on both sides of the track like lamp posts waiting for any wayward car to come close, that counts.

And even better when one said lighting tower gets in the way of one car, that does not count. Interesting to see if the affiliates or drag racers have to pool together to cover the cost of repairs on this one. Who paying for the damage done to the BMW or the driver? Retaining walls and railings on the side of a proper track are built for safety. Lighting towers however are not very safe to crash in to.

is the Ministry of Sport reading any of this?

Link also side stepping the questions. Link, who is the treasurer of TTASA?

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby crazybalhead » May 11th, 2012, 7:27 am

SR wrote:
"the minister has his facts wrong, everybody is on board with ttasa except ttrc(rally)"
TTASA President is the one who has his facts wrong. AutoSport with D&W, CARS with solodex, TTKA with karting, TTRC with rally, TTORC with offroad and TORMATT with motocross are the ones who have been having proper championship racing events YEARS now and they are not "on board" with TTASA. Not even one of them.

On the other hand not one single "affiliate" club who is "on board" with TTASA has ever had a single racing event themselves.

TTASA claim they have a drag racing championship but they only had two championship events so far between November 2011 and May 2012 and it took months for competitors to get their point standings from the first event and probably months to wait again for results from the 2nd event.


This is correct.

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Re: Anil say

Postby RIPEBREDFRUIT » May 11th, 2012, 7:31 am

bushwakka wrote:steups.....make ttasa an offer they can't refuse


YUP- retire NOW or face an Extremely embarassing and hurtful suitation.

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Re: Anil say

Postby crazybalhead » May 11th, 2012, 7:34 am

RIPEBREDFRUIT wrote:
bushwakka wrote:steups.....make ttasa an offer they can't refuse


YUP- retire NOW or face an Extremely embarassing and hurtful suitation.


Embarassing? Thais like pelting water on a dasheen leaf.

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