yuh pssy
stop talkin in parables and say wot yuh want tuh say

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Peugeot 206SW for sale
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=479201

ok. once the rules are keeping the competition fair and balanced.

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but wasn't this rule part of the rules years now

we always allowed it kevin, it was an allowable mod.

only adjustable shocks (tokico iluminas) and coilovers last year attracted 3 points

this year, we split it and separated lowering springs and coilovers as coilovers give greater advantages than lowering springs and should not include the same penalty

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Understeer: You hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: You hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower: How fast you hit the wall.
Torque: How far you take the wall with you.

ok cool
none ah this affects me anyways cuz I cya even get parts for my car
and well the mini is CVT so no amounta mods u pelt at it will make it competitive in ESP...

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Peugeot 206SW for sale
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=479201

further more rudy changed to gas shocks 2 years now lol

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Understeer: You hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: You hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower: How fast you hit the wall.
Torque: How far you take the wall with you.

swap to manual gearbox is a mod

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Understeer: You hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: You hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower: How fast you hit the wall.
Torque: How far you take the wall with you.

not worth the expense

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Peugeot 206SW for sale
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=479201

how many points is that? or is the difference not seen on the dyno?

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that mod will not attract a penalty as we would catch the power gained on teh dyno and hence the new P/W

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Understeer: You hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: You hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower: How fast you hit the wall.
Torque: How far you take the wall with you.

is a phantom grip considered to be an LSD?

yes

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Understeer: You hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: You hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower: How fast you hit the wall.
Torque: How far you take the wall with you.

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Diamonds are for girls. Wise men follow the stars.

Question...

if two cars of same model, but different trim, making the same power are in the same class.... one model may have a feature like a sway bar coming as stock, whereas the lower trim car gets a penalty point for putting even an oem bar on the car... I don't see this as a fair assessment. I would say that a car be rated as 'oem' if the suspension modification duplicates the parts of the highest trim level of available model.

ie... stock sway bar is 17mm.... then adding a 17mm sway to a lower model should not attract a penalty.

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I'm not a Guru... I just know more than you.

The easiest way to win an argument with a woman... is to stop talking.

when and where is next solodex ?

Query-

Ok, the dyno readouts and p/w numbers are supposed to qualify engine mods. Fair enough.

However Vtec and boost controller attract a point since they can alter power delivery characteristics, but then so do almost anything you change on a turbo car. New manifold, downpipes, wastegates may not only add more power, but can affect drivability.

Question is... should these items even be a point after using p/w ?

Should the cars also be classed by the weight of the vehicle & driver ? I dunno about ya'll but I'm nowhere near 150lbs.

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I'm not a Guru... I just know more than you.

The easiest way to win an argument with a woman... is to stop talking.

The intercooler for example can alter the power delivery to a point, but we all know an intercooler can only help so much on a dyno. when u drive at dex the air flowing through it is greater and will add to the power a car is putting down.

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Understeer: You hit the wall with the front of the car.
Oversteer: You hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower: How fast you hit the wall.
Torque: How far you take the wall with you.

X2, your pt about the weight of the vehicle should be car and driver is very valid.....other race clubs weigh the cars/karts immediately after a race....we dont have the manpower or scales to do this.....until we do , it will have to remain as is....incentive to lose some weight

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www.devinath.com

Just do like me and leave your car stock.

Valid argument though. Suppose someone has say, a civic hatch that came without the sway bar, changes everything to SIR suspension, engine etc. Does it attract the penalty of the sway bar?

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Devi, no need to weigh at each event, but the driver's actual weight should be taken into account, not an average weight.... it's not like we are changing drivers throughout the year.

Intercoolers don't show results on a dyno but do on the street ? Ok... follow that reasoning and I guarantee you that running a car with OPEN HOOD on a dyno will result in better power numbers than the car gets on the street with the hood closed and heat from the asphalt affecting ambient temps. The logic is flawed.

Even vtec controllers typically result in power loss when vtec crossover is altered on lightly modified vehicles.

Upgraded wastegates and downpipes, exhaust manifolds ALL can drastically affect power delivery on or off the dyno. If the rules say that dyno figures will account for all power modifications, then why are exceptions being made ? The p/w ratio method of preliminary classification has too wide of a range to be 'tweaked' for specific modifications.

It is also highly unfair to class say a Civic Type R making 170whp with a DX base model EK with a engine swap making 170whp and then serve up penatly points to the DX for bolting up a strut bar and sway bar just so it could be competitive with a car in it's own class. If this were drag racing, the two cars would be more or less the same, but it's not.

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I'm not a Guru... I just know more than you.

The easiest way to win an argument with a woman... is to stop talking.

^^^^^^^^^^^^yeh..... u doh return calls

Yup... a Type-r will be in ESP... but if you take a 100hp non-SiR car, and bolt on SiR suspension parts and a vtec controller you will find your arse fighting up in SS

Not really fair methinks... fair would be penalizing the cars whether-or-not it came from the factory... that way the Type-r will be in SS as well (where it belongs)

This would be less complicated if these factory racers like the type-r were not readily available in TnT... perhaps those rules work for the US... but we shouldn't take everything wholesale from them since the cars we can get a hold of are VERY different

Your current point system also discourages the "poor-men" from entering the sport... why would i try to modify my lil ole-car, make it safer/faster/better if you are going to penalize me for it?

At the same time now, a "rich-boy" who could have afforded to buy a type-r will be laughing as i try to modify my car to be competitive and get put into a higher class while all those parts came stock on his vehicle

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awwwwwwwww... don't listen to ingalook

Daz all because Hondas are nogood anyway. Yuh doh see that problem with de Mazda.
Instead ah throwin away money behind the honda, just do like MG Man and invest yuh cash in buying driver skill instead. Although in his case tons of cash only bought marginal self improvement. But is still better value for money than fixin ah honda.

But seriously if yuh "modify ah lil ole-car, make it safer/faster/better" then it isnt the same ole-car again, is it. Its in reality a much safer, faster and better car and it will not be fair to run it against stock cars.

Bottom line, self improvement 80%, car mods 20% (fixin hondas 1% or vurtually impossible)

I did not pay cash for my driver skil eh
a few dozen julie mango and a trained ferret were part of the transaction...

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Peugeot 206SW for sale
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=479201

I know a modified car should not run with unmodified cars... but my point is a FACTORY RACER should not run with stock cars either

Lemme edumacate yuh... additions to a Type-R not found on any other "regular" Hondas:

Seam welded Cassis
Re-enforcerced Rear subframe
Rear lower and upper tie bars
Helical LSD
Lower gear ratio
Weight reduction
Lower/stiffer springs
22mm rear sway bar (SiR is 13mm... other civics have none)
Bigger throttle body
End-weights balanced from the factory
Different ECU tuning
Faster steering ratio
About 25 more hp than an SiR
etc etc etc...

How much points you will add if you put all that on a car yourself?

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awwwwwwwww... don't listen to ingalook

Ingalook, ah hear what yuh sayin but, what is dex really about, isnt it about driver skill development primarily. The rules for the cars will keep getting refined over time but there will always be exceptions weather it be high cost Type R or the low self image yellow accented swift. That said, if you bought a type R it would not help yuh in ESP. The sound beatin that we got from Larry's tricked out yellow frankmonster only reinforces the point as Devi beat his time and his car with driver skill and an underpowered oxy

^^^ Nah... dem Zuki have obea in it

Zuki should get automatic class bump!

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awwwwwwwww... don't listen to ingalook

From that all I see is
Lower Gear Ratio - 3 points
Rear Sway Bar - 2 points
Added OEM LSD - 2 points
Apart from those, if it's lighter and has more power it may be in a higher class but as it stands that's 7 additional points so would be in one higher class.

The question I have is, if a car installed these things and was penalised, shouldn't a car that came with them ALSO be penalised? Same with all the other modifications that incur penalties. Each of the "modifications" enhance the way the car drives. Don't they also enhance the cars that come with them stock?

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^^I want to know the same thing, from what ingalook say how a type R civic would be in ESP thats just insane :s, he sure bout dat ? I agree with what pete says

Previously the EK9 was put in SS class.

With a weight of roughly 2550lbs incl diver and 182 hp tho.. it has a P/W ratio of 14 and would be in ESP.

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What's the treadwear rule? 140 or 180???