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Privy Council to go

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby Habit7 » April 26th, 2012, 11:27 am

Habit7 wrote:Image

Image

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby BrotherHood » April 26th, 2012, 2:16 pm

^^^ :wtf:

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby eliteauto » April 26th, 2012, 2:39 pm

never heard the saying, "the elephant in the room"? google it

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby BrotherHood » April 26th, 2012, 3:58 pm

yea got it :oops:
I rel late dey bai

kthnksbai

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby K74T » April 26th, 2012, 11:13 pm

Ex-CJ: Hanging appeals stay with Privy Council

Death-penalty appeals will still go before the Privy Council in London, not the Caribbean Court of Justice. Former Chief Justice Michael de la Bastide said yesterday that there could be a long way to go before hangings could be resumed. Capital cases, he pointed out, will still go before the Privy Council, because they are constitutional matters. “The issue of hanging is one that will not be adjudicated by the CCJ, as long as the CCJ is restricted to hearing criminal appeals,” de la Bastide explained. “When someone challenges an execution, that person does so on a constitutional motion as it is alleged that their constitutional rights are being infringed.”


De la Bastide retired last year as the first president of the CCJ. On Wednesday, Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar announced in Parliament that the London-based Privy Council would be abolished as the country’s highest court of appeal in criminal matters. Those matters will now be referred to the CCJ. The country is expected to save millions of dollars when criminal matters go before the CCJ, said de la Bastide. He said it was no longer necessary to pay attorneys from England, whose fees were normally very high. “It would definitely be much cheaper,” he said. “You are paying English lawyers in pounds and some of those lawyers who are silk charge very large fees.” Admitting there were local attorneys whose fees were very high, de la Bastide said they were “nothing” when compared to English attorneys.


“There are local attorneys who charge high fees, but they are definitely not the same,” he said. “In the civil appeals, you need English solicitors as well as English barristers, whereas you can use lawyers from the region before the CCJ.” De la Bastide noted that there would no longer be costs for litigants having to travel to England, and the cost of hotel and accommodation would also be saved. “In the Privy Council, even if you win a civil case and are awarded costs, that does not include the cost to recover hotel and accommodation expenses,” he said. He said he expected regional judges to be paid either in TT or EC currency. De la Bastide paid tribute to the judges and staff of the CCJ for their dedication and creating public confidence in the court.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby Habit7 » April 27th, 2012, 11:31 am

TT PM defends Privy Council
22 March, 2011 - Published 09:30 GMT

Trinidad and Tobago Prime Minister, Kamla Persad-Bissessar has defended her government's reluctance to break away from the London-based Privy Council and sign up to the Caribbean Court of Justice.

She told BBC Caribbean that she can't see why at this stage she should "fix" that which is not broken.

"I don't see that we are suffering as a result of having the Privy Council and therefore, why fix something that doesn't need fixing right now."

Even though Caricom states have signed up to the court to resolve trade disputes currently only Barbados, Guyana and Belize recognise the CCJ as their final court of Appeal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/sto ... bspm.shtml

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby The_Honourable » May 26th, 2022, 12:28 am

AG: Govt moving to make CCJ final appellate court

Government will be moving to make the Caribbean Court of Justice T&T’s final appellate court–and there are no reasons that could possibly present any obstacle to the Opposition leader supporting the requisite vote for this since, she’d spoken of abolishing appeals to the Privy Council in April 2012.

Attorney General Reginald Armour indicated the situationon Wednesday, indirectly putting the Opposition on notice for support towards the CCJ becoming T&T’s final appeal court.

Armour did so in Senate debate on a motion by Independent Senator Anthony Vieira, who’d called for the CCJ to be recognised as the final Court of Appeal for T&T and for the appropriate amendments to be made to alter T&T’s Constitution for this.

Armour paid tribute to Vieira, saying he supported and applauded his “very timely motion.”

Armour added: ”Within the first week of my assumption of office as Attorney General and Minister of Legal Affairs, Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley gave me his unequivocal support for making a main plank of my tenure in office, the completion of this country’s journey to fulfil its treaty obligations of acceding to the CCJ as our final court of appeal to replace the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.”

Armour said T&T had signed on to this and affirmed–but is in breach on the issue.

“We must move to accomplish the three-quarters vote in the other place (House of Representatives) and the two-thirds vote here (Senate),” he added.

In that regard, Armour noted the April 25, 2012 remarks by Opposition leader Kamla Persad-Bissessar, when, as prime minister, she had made a statement to Parliament signalling her government’s intention then to bring legislation to secure the limited abolition of appeals to the Privy Council .

He quoted her statement, including the intention of saying “goodbye to the Privy Council.”

Armour added, “I can think of no reason, not rational or otherwise, that could possibly now present any obstacle to the Opposition leader, therefore, lending her support to the requisite votes to accede T&T to the CCJ as our final court of appeal.”

He said T&T is uniquely positioned to take that final step as a member of the revised Treaty of Chaguaramas and signatory to establishing the CCJ.

“I embrace with enthusiasm and passion, therefore, the opportunity to participate in this final journey,” Armour added.

He noted Michael de la Bastide’s 2021 memoir had stated that a major disappointment of his CCJ presidency was T&T’s failure to make the CCJ its final appeal court.

Vieira, in his motion, had cited opinions on the issue by regional and international jurists, including de la Bastide, the former CCJ president. He said it was high time for T&T to complete the break from its colonial past and the “colonial umbilical cord should be cut.”

Vieira said in terms of access to justice, the CCJ beats the Privy Council “hands down” and noted the irony that despite it being based here, it’s not T&T’s final appeal court.

The UNC said yesterday it will not support the move.

Source: https://guardian.co.tt/news/ag-govt-mov ... 9a2dc54be7

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby agent007 » May 26th, 2022, 1:45 am

It’s about time.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby redmanjp » May 26th, 2022, 2:01 am

does CCJ support the death penalty? cuz the privy council doh like it

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby pugboy » May 26th, 2022, 5:25 am

i expect kamala to do the usual and go against regardless of if she and anand said they wanted ccj in the past

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby De Dragon » May 26th, 2022, 6:22 am

pugboy wrote:i expect kamala to do the usual and go against regardless of if she and anand said they wanted ccj in the past

The Privy Council has reversed some of the most egregious attempts by the LFD RFD PNM in particular. to run roughshod over people's rights and freedoms. Remember Sat radio License? Remember pretty much everything Arse Wari bring?
If the CCJ can exercise similar, then we're fine, but I have always felt that, the distance and nature of the PC, makes it an institution of which public confidence could be higher, as there is no perceived links, like our present CJ, to any party.
The fact that the CCJ is headquartered here, and our very small society means that there will be some rubbing of elbows, leaves the door open for persons to have doubts about the impartiality of the CCJ. I'm not impugning the CCJ, but public confidence has to be felt, and our local courts have failed miserably to provide that.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby hover11 » May 26th, 2022, 7:08 am

This will never happen due to the special majority needed, the opposition doesn't want the government to look good and the only thing they can agree on unanimously is increase in pensions and salaries....this decade long debate rears it ugly head again and will crawl back in the abyss until a new distraction appears
FB_IMG_1653563192591.jpg

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby De Dragon » May 26th, 2022, 7:22 am

hover11 wrote:This will never happen due to the special majority needed, the opposition doesn't want the government to look good and the only thing they can agree on unanimously is increase in pensions and salaries....this decade long debate rears it ugly head again and will crawl back in the abyss until a new distraction appearsFB_IMG_1653563192591.jpg

Lewwe see if the new AG go "Arse Wari" de play :roll:

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby pugboy » May 26th, 2022, 7:38 am

this new ag is a real lawyer and plenty brighter than all the lawyers in the red house put together so i doubt kamala and dem will give him any glory by voting for.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby agent007 » May 26th, 2022, 10:52 am

If the issue is that we don't trust the CCJ hence the PC then that same rhetoric should apply for judgements delivered at the High Court and Magistrates Court.

If that was the case then in good faith, we should not have allowed the CCJ to be based right here in POS. It should have been Barbados instead. One would have assumed that it would have been the reverse. "Little England" subscribing to the PC while we subscribe to the CCJ but it's the reverse.

Oh well...as they say with bodi prices. Carry on...

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby hover11 » May 26th, 2022, 10:56 am

Look how long slavery done but we still sticking up under the white man as our highest court, you feel England like to hear our cases. Then we have to re evaluate are we truly independent or just another banana republic aspiring to be a first world country?

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby death365 » May 27th, 2022, 4:08 am

This just shows how we, as a people, are still stuck with the colonial mindset.

We free but not smart enough, hav 2 run bac 2 masa to see if we decision was right.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby pugboy » May 27th, 2022, 8:05 am

the pc is part of the political football culture landscape, it aint gonna change so easily

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby Kickstart » May 27th, 2022, 8:39 am

death365 wrote:This just shows how we, as a people, are still stuck with the colonial mindset.

We free but not smart enough, hav 2 run bac 2 masa to see if we decision was right.
There is a distrust for the CCJ where political matters are concerned

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby hover11 » May 27th, 2022, 8:57 am

Kickstart wrote:
death365 wrote:This just shows how we, as a people, are still stuck with the colonial mindset.

We free but not smart enough, hav 2 run bac 2 masa to see if we decision was right.
There is a distrust for the CCJ where political matters are concerned
If this is the case why is the CCJ here, imagine we paying for something with our tax dollars and not utilizing it this is why I will always say treasury could never be empty

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby The_Honourable » May 27th, 2022, 9:40 am

hover11 wrote:
Kickstart wrote:
death365 wrote:This just shows how we, as a people, are still stuck with the colonial mindset.

We free but not smart enough, hav 2 run bac 2 masa to see if we decision was right.
There is a distrust for the CCJ where political matters are concerned
If this is the case why is the CCJ here, imagine we paying for something with our tax dollars and not utilizing it this is why I will always say treasury could never be empty


The Privy Council is seen by the population as the most independent and trustworthy as they are not influenced by local and Caribbean politicians who for the most part are in the law profession and well connected. When a ruling is made by the Lord Justices at the Privy Council, it is accepted. Unlike the High and Appeal courts, you don't have to discussion questioning if the Justices are Afro, or Indo, or UNC or PNM or Hindu or Christian, or sympathetic towards a race, class or culture.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby hover11 » May 27th, 2022, 9:43 am

The_Honourable wrote:
hover11 wrote:
Kickstart wrote:
death365 wrote:This just shows how we, as a people, are still stuck with the colonial mindset.

We free but not smart enough, hav 2 run bac 2 masa to see if we decision was right.
There is a distrust for the CCJ where political matters are concerned
If this is the case why is the CCJ here, imagine we paying for something with our tax dollars and not utilizing it this is why I will always say treasury could never be empty


The Privy Council is seen by the population as the most independent and trustworthy as they are not influenced by local and Caribbean politicians who for the most part are in the law profession and well connected. When a ruling is made by the Lord Justices at the Privy Council, it is accepted. Unlike the High and Appeal courts, you don't have to discussion questioning if the Justices are Afro, or Indo, or UNC or PNM or Hindu or Christian, or sympathetic towards a race, class or culture.
I understand this point however England is going to say enough is enough , I thought yall were independent why you can't handle your own affairs and also the cost for us as taxpayers to fight an appeal in the privy council is burdensome

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby Mmoney607 » May 27th, 2022, 9:43 am

hover11 wrote:Look how long slavery done but we still sticking up under the white man as our highest court, you feel England like to hear our cases. Then we have to re evaluate are we truly independent or just another banana republic aspiring to be a first world country?


Slavery would have never worked without other Africans helping the Europeans. The descendants of those house slaves are now the ones in charge of the ccj. So you have black face carrying out the work of the slave masters. This is the new slavery.

The privy council is the only thread that Trinidad still hanging on by.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby timelapse » May 27th, 2022, 9:48 am

The only colour that matters now is green $$

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby De Dragon » May 28th, 2022, 9:04 am

agent007 wrote:If the issue is that we don't trust the CCJ hence the PC then that same rhetoric should apply for judgements delivered at the High Court and Magistrates Court.

If that was the case then in good faith, we should not have allowed the CCJ to be based right here in POS. It should have been Barbados instead. One would have assumed that it would have been the reverse. "Little England" subscribing to the PC while we subscribe to the CCJ but it's the reverse.

Oh well...as they say with bodi prices. Carry on...

Nigel Henry poll says 12% of the population trusts the judiciary.
How many times has the PC reversed judgments by our local courts?
I humbly submit that the Dominican AG focus on that rather than trying to get rid of the one thing we still can trust for impartiality

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby agent007 » May 28th, 2022, 10:23 am

I know there is one decision that the great PC messed up for us and that is with Abu Bakr and the 1990 coup, where they initially held up the amnesty as a legally binding negotiation document for the insurrectionists release.

Perhaps we should investigate to what extent does the CCJ uphold or contradict judgements for its membership countries?

Either way, if we in T&T want to aspire to be a first world nation, sooner or later, moving away from the PC to the CCJ is inevitable.

Australia has the High Court of Australia
New Zealand has the The Court of New Zealand
South Africa has the Supreme Court of Appeal
Canada has the Supreme Court of Canada
USA has the Supreme Court of the United States

The above examples show that these are all former British colonies and all mentioned above are Commonwealth except the US.

Fellow third world Commonwealth countries like us eg. Bahamas, India, Pakistan, Botswana, Mauritius and Papua New Guinea etc all have their own highest appellate court.

CCJ has been known to have some really extraordinary Judges like Sir Dennis Byron and Justice Rolston Nelson to the current Justice Peter Jamadar and Justice Denys Barrow etc. Notice all of them are not Trinbagonian including Justice Saunders, the current President of the CCJ.

I think they can provide the impartiality we are looking for to keep the High Court in the Hall of Justice in check.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby Rovin » May 28th, 2022, 11:01 am

The_Honourable wrote:
hover11 wrote:
Kickstart wrote:
death365 wrote:This just shows how we, as a people, are still stuck with the colonial mindset.

We free but not smart enough, hav 2 run bac 2 masa to see if we decision was right.
There is a distrust for the CCJ where political matters are concerned
If this is the case why is the CCJ here, imagine we paying for something with our tax dollars and not utilizing it this is why I will always say treasury could never be empty


The Privy Council is seen by the population as the most independent and trustworthy as they are not influenced by local and Caribbean politicians who for the most part are in the law profession and well connected. When a ruling is made by the Lord Justices at the Privy Council, it is accepted. Unlike the High and Appeal courts, you don't have to discussion questioning if the Justices are Afro, or Indo, or UNC or PNM or Hindu or Christian, or sympathetic towards a race, class or culture.


i agree with this point

locals & regional decision makers too easily influenced\corrupted ... :|

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby Numb3r4 » May 28th, 2022, 9:01 pm

Everyone is making the point of the CCJ being "local" and that we don't need "massa" to make decisions for us but in light of what a great job we've done of managing our natural resources can we manage our own affairs?

I mean the multinational companies seem to do a better job of extracting and profiting of our resources than our local efforts, and we've tried. All out local efforts just seem marred by waste and inefficiency, even the existing justice system.

It is interesting that the debate for the CCJ vs. Privy Counsel comes at the same time that a foreign buyer might be found for the Petrotrin Refinery.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby De Dragon » May 29th, 2022, 9:34 am

Numb3r4 wrote:Everyone is making the point of the CCJ being "local" and that we don't need "massa" to make decisions for us but in light of what a great job we've done of managing our natural resources can we manage our own affairs?

I mean the multinational companies seem to do a better job of extracting and profiting of our resources than our local efforts, and we've tried. All out local efforts just seem marred by waste and inefficiency, even the existing justice system.

It is interesting that the debate for the CCJ vs. Privy Counsel comes at the same time that a foreign buyer might be found for the Petrotrin Refinery.

Nah, ent dey making real profits post AV? :roll:
Trinis too dotish. Every single thing that was deemed a waste and inefficient like Tringen, ISCOTT, Methanol was successfully turned around because there was no LFD RFD PNM input.

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Re: Privy Council to go

Postby sMASH » May 29th, 2022, 9:50 am

Pnm does usually lose at pc... Hence why
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