Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods
dnoah wrote:megadoc1 wrote:it is very true to say that if Jesus was created he is not God but Jesus is the logos (the word ) that existed with God from the beginning, begotten not made...... He then added humanity to himselfdnoah wrote:ok im just trying to understand this but im getting more confused
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(john 1:1)
after that this happonedmegadoc1 wrote:John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
can you agree about who Jesus really is now?
so acording to the bible: god transformed in to jesus or did he create jesus???
then if jesus was created that would mean he is not god or 1 out of 3 or part of god
can someone help me out here???
dspike also said
"The Son,
Eternally begotten of the Father,
Begotten, not made.
Of one in being with the Father
Through Him, all things were made..."
"The Holy Spirit,
proceeds from the Father and the Son..."
There is more that can (and should be) explained, but I will stop at this point for your feedback... and for certain others to lob their rotten fruit...
_________________
Big red rice-eater
Post subject: Re: The Religion Discussion
Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:07 am
but from what i understand and know,the word "Begotten" has been remove by most high ranking scholars of Christianity because they believe it was fabricated
for example u will not find that word in the following bibles: New International Version,New Living Translation,English Standard Version,International Standard Version and alot more
anyway the point im makeing is this,we all believe god has no beginning or end, so that would mean god was there before the beginning and if so, it is right to say that everything in and after the beginning was created or made which leads up to, if jesus was created that would mean he is not god or 1 out of 3 or part of god
i would like to know ya'll thoughts on this
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:AdamB which Islamic sect do you subscribe to?AdamB wrote:My Christian friends,
Can you identify which branch of christianity you subscribe to?
http://islamic-invitation.com/images/all-christian.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_sc ... d_branches
turbohead wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:AdamB which Islamic sect do you subscribe to?AdamB wrote:My Christian friends,
Can you identify which branch of christianity you subscribe to?
http://islamic-invitation.com/images/all-christian.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_sc ... d_branches
bro once yuh follow a imam of school of thought in islam you are a sunni, but dont be 2 or 3 at teh same time. follow one so that you would not confuse yourself, in trinidad majority follow the imam Hanafi school of thought.
the shia, kadiani, ahmadiyyah and all other are deviated sects and considered out the fold of islam...
wrt sufism it is the spiritual aspect of islam and whereby one cannot be a sufi and not be a sunni... it is a higher attained spiritual essence in islam through the controlled chain of order and permissions in spiritual aspects...
AdamB wrote:An analogy can be examined - how was the first man, Adam (not AdamB) created? GOD created and moulded him with HIS (GOD's) HANDS. How then did he, Adam, come to life? Was not a spirit (the soul) breathed (or however it was put) into him? Did this spirit emanate FROM GOD? If YES, then can we say that Adam is also the SON of GOD. If not, then the spirit came FROM GOD, belonging to HIM, but not a part of HIM. So, therefore Adam is also NOT GOD, just like Jesus!! Is MY logic making sense here?
sMASH wrote:i can't believe i did not hit the 'enter' button.
so far the person of the son, or the word is to god like a reflection is to an object. it does not exist without its originator. it is the 'love' of god embodied...
am i with u so far?
dnoah wrote:AdamB wrote:An analogy can be examined - how was the first man, Adam (not AdamB) created? GOD created and moulded him with HIS (GOD's) HANDS. How then did he, Adam, come to life? Was not a spirit (the soul) breathed (or however it was put) into him? Did this spirit emanate FROM GOD? If YES, then can we say that Adam is also the SON of GOD. If not, then the spirit came FROM GOD, belonging to HIM, but not a part of HIM. So, therefore Adam is also NOT GOD, just like Jesus!! Is MY logic making sense here?
watch nah,i never think of it this way and your logic making sense
ah wish ah could of add to it but u said it all and there is no one that can refute this
MG Man wrote:dnoah wrote:AdamB wrote:An analogy can be examined - how was the first man, Adam (not AdamB) created? GOD created and moulded him with HIS (GOD's) HANDS. How then did he, Adam, come to life? Was not a spirit (the soul) breathed (or however it was put) into him? Did this spirit emanate FROM GOD? If YES, then can we say that Adam is also the SON of GOD. If not, then the spirit came FROM GOD, belonging to HIM, but not a part of HIM. So, therefore Adam is also NOT GOD, just like Jesus!! Is MY logic making sense here?
watch nah,i never think of it this way and your logic making sense
ah wish ah could of add to it but u said it all and there is no one that can refute this
buh ent adamb say god have no form?
whey he get hads from to mold he lil mudman?
AdamB wrote:sMASH wrote:i can't believe i did not hit the 'enter' button.
so far the person of the son, or the word is to god like a reflection is to an object. it does not exist without its originator. it is the 'love' of god embodied...
am i with u so far?
Who created the mirror that has the power to duplicate GOD and where does this sequence of "assumptions" come from? I have asked dspike but no answers as yet! Ah talking 'bout source of knowledge nah cause it surely ain't logical! Spikey, the name/s of the relevant Christian scholar/s and link to their works / documents / website. If I try to do it myself, I may select the wrong interpretation, but as Duane put it the burden of proof is on the one making the claim!
Why not is the mirror also a god?
crossdrilled wrote:
So it is safe to say that Allah touched Adam's penis and rolled up his nuts..... does that make him gay? Jussayin....
AdamB wrote:Please point out where I said that Allah had no form.
AdamB wrote:turbohead wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:AdamB which Islamic sect do you subscribe to?AdamB wrote:My Christian friends,
Can you identify which branch of christianity you subscribe to?
http://islamic-invitation.com/images/all-christian.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_sc ... d_branches
bro once yuh follow a imam of school of thought in islam you are a sunni, but dont be 2 or 3 at teh same time. follow one so that you would not confuse yourself, in trinidad majority follow the imam Hanafi school of thought.
the shia, kadiani, ahmadiyyah and all other are deviated sects and considered out the fold of islam...
wrt sufism it is the spiritual aspect of islam and whereby one cannot be a sufi and not be a sunni... it is a higher attained spiritual essence in islam through the controlled chain of order and permissions in spiritual aspects...
My dear brother in Islam,
I call upon you to educate yourself concerning the truth and reality of Sufism, that it is not from the Sunnah of the messenger of Allah, neither is it from his companions. If it was, they would have been the foremost to practise it and establish it in the deen. However, this is certainly not the case. May Allah, the Most High, guide you to see the truth of this matter with clarity, that it is a Bid'ah, an innovation in Islam.
Please check out the following as well as the links to documents / books written on this important subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... OHmw2GqrFc
Sufism is not from Islam
Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan (hafithahuAllah)
Translated by Rasheed ibn Estes ibn Estes Barbee
Presented to you by Markaz Tawheed was-Sunnah in Durham, NC
http://mtws.posterous.com
Questioner:
What is the ruling in Islam concerning Sufism?
Shaykh Fawzan:
Sufism, there is no Sufism in Islam, this is an innovation. Sufism is an innovation, it is not from Islam.
Thus it is upon those who have fallen into Sufism to repent to Allah the Exalted.
And it is upon them to return to the Sunnah.
And it is upon them to return to that which the pious predecessors were upon from uprightness and firmness upon the Deen of Allah and following the Messenger, peace and blessings of Allah are upon him, and following the rightly guided successors.
This is the pure unadulterated methodology.
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings are upon him said:
This nation will divide into seventy three sects all of them will be in the fire except one. They said: Who are they oh Messenger of Allah? He replied: Those who are upon what I and my companions are upon.
Thus there is no safety and security except by following the Minhaj of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings are upon, him and his companions.
And Sufism is not from the Minhaj of the Messenger, peace and blessings of Allah are upon him, and it is not from the Minhaj of his companions, and it is not from the Minhaj of the virtuous generations; rather it is something newly invented in Islam.
And it (Sufism) contains a great deal of deviations; some of which contains grave worship and shirk with Allah the Exalted and belief in the dead.
Thus Sufism also contains polytheism.
http://abdurrahman.org/innovation/meean ... ufism.html
http://abdurrahman.org/innovation/Sufis ... opment.pdf
http://abdurrahman.org/innovation/there ... sufism.pdf
dnoah wrote:AdamB wrote:An analogy can be examined - how was the first man, Adam (not AdamB) created? GOD created and moulded him with HIS (GOD's) HANDS. How then did he, Adam, come to life? Was not a spirit (the soul) breathed (or however it was put) into him? Did this spirit emanate FROM GOD? If YES, then can we say that Adam is also the SON of GOD. If not, then the spirit came FROM GOD, belonging to HIM, but not a part of HIM. So, therefore Adam is also NOT GOD, just like Jesus!! Is MY logic making sense here?
watch nah,i never think of it this way and your logic making sense
ah wish ah could of add to it but u said it all and there is no one that can refute this
crossdrilled wrote:buh ent adamb say god have no form?
whey he get hads from to mold he lil mudman?
sMASH wrote:i can't believe i did not hit the 'enter' button.
so far the person of the son, or the word is to god like a reflection is to an object. it does not exist without its originator.
am i with u so far?
AdamB wrote:Who created the mirror that has the power to duplicate GOD
AdamB wrote:Why not is the mirror also a god?
AdamB wrote:and where does this sequence of "assumptions" come from?
AdamB wrote:I have asked dspike but no answers as yet! Ah talking 'bout source of knowledge nah cause it surely ain't logical!
AdamB wrote:Spikey, the name/s of the relevant Christian scholar/s and link to their works / documents / website.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:^ just trying to understand what you posted... why do you think God wants us to repent?
Red Fraction wrote:man + logic / God = fail
Man + faith * God = pass
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
Jussaying
MG Man wrote:dnoah wrote:AdamB wrote:An analogy can be examined - how was the first man, Adam (not AdamB) created? GOD created and moulded him with HIS (GOD's) HANDS. How then did he, Adam, come to life? Was not a spirit (the soul) breathed (or however it was put) into him? Did this spirit emanate FROM GOD? If YES, then can we say that Adam is also the SON of GOD. If not, then the spirit came FROM GOD, belonging to HIM, but not a part of HIM. So, therefore Adam is also NOT GOD, just like Jesus!! Is MY logic making sense here?
watch nah,i never think of it this way and your logic making sense
ah wish ah could of add to it but u said it all and there is no one that can refute this
buh ent adamb say god have no form?
whey he get hads from to mold he lil mudman?
Red Fraction wrote:The intention of GOD was to make man a people who would commit sins, so that by seeking GOD's forgiveness and asking for HIM to accept our repentance
Adamb......... That extract above from your post is most misleading and is an attack on Gods character. How can you say God intent was to make man who would commit sin??
That's like saying God destroys and kills smh.
I really wish you would desist from making God out to be a selfish tyrant who revels in seeing humans suffer.
d spike wrote:sMASH wrote:i can't believe i did not hit the 'enter' button.
so far the person of the son, or the word is to god like a reflection is to an object. it does not exist without its originator.
am i with u so far?
Yes, quite right.
Just remember, that the image is perfect itself, so it is no mere "reflection".AdamB wrote:Who created the mirror that has the power to duplicate GODAdamB wrote:Why not is the mirror also a god?
I explained it was but an analogy. Do you have no idea what "idea" or "concept" means?
The "image" is a way of explaining the self-concept of God.AdamB wrote:and where does this sequence of "assumptions" come from?
It's called 'Theology', my dear uneducated friend. Perhaps if you would care to attempt looking it up in ANY encyclopaedia, or even "google" it, you would easily get an answer.AdamB wrote:I have asked dspike but no answers as yet! Ah talking 'bout source of knowledge nah cause it surely ain't logical!
Be wary in exposing your ignorance in public. It will only lead to embarrassment. This "sequence of assumptions" is older than Islam, and has been accepted by scholars for centuries. Use your brain. This obviously means you just need to peruse the writings of theologians who lived before 600 A.D., and discussed the Trinity.
If you are not even capable of recognizing or researching with this extremely narrowed field, then I doubt you will be capable of discussing this matter at the level these goodly gentlemen did.
AdamB wrote:Spikey, the name/s of the relevant Christian scholar/s and link to their works / documents / website.
For more than a thousand years these gentlemen and their writings were well-respected, even revered, in the educated world.
It is not my fault that you don't know of them, or that you might wrongly interpret their essays - which have been understood and debated by learned folk for hundreds of years...
If you don't care for Bach or Beethoven's music, it just means you never educated your taste... not that their music is old-fashioned.