Please download the latest Flash Player here

Thursday, September 9th, 2010




All times are UTC - 4 hours


Jump to:  


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
(...Rovin...)
 Post subject: Neodymium Magnets - how strong they really are ....
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:28 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR Power Seller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:30 pm
Posts: 4639
Location: Chaguanas...
warning :

http://magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magne ... dent.htm?1

well its not directly ICE but its d same stuff some speakers are made of .... 8-)

_________________
153.0 dbs with 1 15" on Iasca Meter 11\4\2010


[See my items for sale in the Car Audio Classifieds section : Decks \ Speakers \ Subs]


Top
 Profile  
 
Pirate
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:30 pm 
Offline
Chronic TriniTuner
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:12 pm
Posts: 655
Location: All bout d place...i probably lost!!!
some really interesting stuff!
:shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
viking1705
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:33 pm 
Offline
Chronic TriniTuner
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:12 pm
Posts: 548
holy crap..is 20inches the man say they :o


Top
 Profile  
 
X_Factor
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:55 pm 
Offline
punchin NOS
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:54 pm
Posts: 3114
Location: St. Augustine
but the size of those magnets used are crazy i doubt anyone will be in posesion of neo's that size and not secured to a speaker frame etc

if someone can convert the size used say if they were cpmpared to conventional magnets im sure it will be amazing...

_________________
..nothing in this world worth having comes easy...


Top
 Profile  
 
3stagevtec
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:05 pm 
Offline
3ne2nr Toppa Toppa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:57 pm
Posts: 5504
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
i have 2 neo magnets from a pair of audiopipe 6"s.. had stuck them together once and it took me an my bro about 10mins prying with screw drivers to get them apart! it was impossible to pull them apart with only your hands, even with a very good grip..

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:47 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
This is what a neo-magnet bass driver can look like:

Image

That's a new 10" Vifa. Madisound should be carrying the 12" version shortly.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id=8700

Hiding something like that a in a box would be such a shame...

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
FD3S
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:33 pm 
Offline
Street 2NR

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:58 pm
Posts: 72
Devious looking sub, deviously light too 2.24kg. How do you think these would perform in car?


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:45 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
FD3S wrote:
Devious looking sub, deviously light too 2.24kg. How do you think these would perform in car?


I don't think they were designed specifically for car audio use. Xmax is a bit low, but I love the low Qts - leaves lots of alignment options open (like a 6th order BP in plexiglass to show off that motor, for example :)).

Whether or not they can stand up to the elements is another matter. Dainty drivers don't stand a chance in a car audio environment - particularly in the tropics :).

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
riadb
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:51 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR Power Seller

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:39 am
Posts: 2358
Location: Freeport, Trinidad
it should be mentioned tho that once neo magnets get hot they start to loose their magnetic capabilities...

however these capabilities do not come back when the magnet cools..Ferrites on the other hand regain their magnetic strength.

_________________
Extreme Audio & Performance
Cerwin Vega Mobile, Orion, MTX, Quantum Audio
738-8547


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:03 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
riadb wrote:
it should be mentioned tho that once neo magnets get hot they start to loose their magnetic capabilities...

however these capabilities do not come back when the magnet cools..Ferrites on the other hand regain their magnetic strength.


...which would explain the heat sinks around the pro audio neo-magnet drivers like this one:

Image
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=290-590

One of the persons in the business did indicate to me that this was largely a non-issue (the fact that a lot of neo-magnet drivers are showing up in the pro audio world underlines this). Of course, it's possible he wasn't including very high-power drivers in this group...

I've been using two neo-magnet subs in my car for awhile (driven by 250Wrms x 2). I did a t/s param check after I broke them in. I'll repeat the check when I get a chance to see if BL shifted significantly.

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
riadb
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:08 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR Power Seller

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:39 am
Posts: 2358
Location: Freeport, Trinidad
yes most neo magnet drivers have extremely efficient cooling systems as indicated above.

I think there is a maximum tolerable temperature for the magnets before they start to degrade.

correct me if i am wrong.

_________________
Extreme Audio & Performance
Cerwin Vega Mobile, Orion, MTX, Quantum Audio
738-8547


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:21 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
riadb wrote:
yes most neo magnet drivers have extremely efficient cooling systems as indicated above.

I think there is a maximum tolerable temperature for the magnets before they start to degrade.

correct me if i am wrong.


You're correct, but that temperature varies, depending on the neodymium alloy. The higher temperature alloys are unfortunately more expensive, but the max temperature starts from around 300 degrees C, which is pretty hot. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
infinite_RPM
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:15 pm 
Offline
Sweet on this forum

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:31 pm
Posts: 370
Brian Steele wrote:
One of the persons in the business did indicate to me that this was largely a non-issue (the fact that a lot of neo-magnet drivers are showing up in the pro audio world underlines this). Of course, it's possible he wasn't including very high-power drivers in this group...

I've been using two neo-magnet subs in my car for awhile (driven by 250Wrms x 2). I did a t/s param check after I broke them in. I'll repeat the check when I get a chance to see if BL shifted significantly.


i doubt you'll see a change...but still interested to see the results...do post them when you get a chance

_________________
slacker_jack wrote:
I have a wall outside, I can rent you it to bang your head against, $500.00 per hour.


Top
 Profile  
 
DJ Q
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:10 pm 
Offline
12 pounds of Boost
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:09 am
Posts: 2247
Location: 137.9 dB
infinite_RPM wrote:
Brian Steele wrote:
One of the persons in the business did indicate to me that this was largely a non-issue (the fact that a lot of neo-magnet drivers are showing up in the pro audio world underlines this). Of course, it's possible he wasn't including very high-power drivers in this group...

I've been using two neo-magnet subs in my car for awhile (driven by 250Wrms x 2). I did a t/s param check after I broke them in. I'll repeat the check when I get a chance to see if BL shifted significantly.


i doubt you'll see a change...but still interested to see the results...do post them when you get a chance


Actually you probably will. Remember that as power goes up, the other results aren't linear.


Top
 Profile  
 
SR
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:20 pm 
Offline
Chief Cook & Instigator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:11 pm
Posts: 7332
does anyoen make an SPl orioented sub with neo magnets?


why?
why not?

discuss

_________________
Mon-Sat
7am-7pm
http://www.dls.se/en/car/index.html
http://www.iasca.com/

DLS Trinidad and IASCA Caribbean


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:42 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
DJ Q wrote:
Actually you probably will. Remember that as power goes up, the other results aren't linear.


Shouldn't make a difference if the testing procedure remains the same. I'll be using the same WT3 to do the testing that I used to initially test the drivers.

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
southside connections
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:47 pm 
Offline
18 pounds of Boost

Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:18 am
Posts: 2450
hmm, good point,could be because of the excessive heat production due to excessive amounts of power being used

alo there are a few subs i know that have neyo/ned/n45 based magnets-

ddz,9500z and z95
critcal mass ul line

and a few more, i can't remember them at this time



another thing, when a speaker is broken out, the parameters change and usually "blueprint" specs are often off, as each speaker is made completly different

_________________
CrEePeRs !!! : Southside


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:49 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
SR wrote:
does anyoen make an SPl orioented sub with neo magnets?


why?
why not?

discuss


Define "SPL oriented sub"... :)

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
SR
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:52 pm 
Offline
Chief Cook & Instigator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:11 pm
Posts: 7332
no defination needed
competition SPL not the street bass stuff

_________________
Mon-Sat
7am-7pm
http://www.dls.se/en/car/index.html
http://www.iasca.com/

DLS Trinidad and IASCA Caribbean


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:58 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
southside connections wrote:
hmm, good point,could be because of the excessive heat production due to excessive amounts of power being used


A Google search on "subwoofer neo magnet high power" actually turned up quite a few hits - but almost all in the pro-audio world as expected, where the power rating is according to AES standards, not what some car audio marketing company dreamed up :).

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
SR
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:00 pm 
Offline
Chief Cook & Instigator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:11 pm
Posts: 7332
roflmao at car audio marketing

you wont belive some of the bull that gets spinned to market some subs

and the thing is

it works based on the figures from some of the companies

bling is in

_________________
Mon-Sat
7am-7pm
http://www.dls.se/en/car/index.html
http://www.iasca.com/

DLS Trinidad and IASCA Caribbean


Top
 Profile  
 
SR
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:02 pm 
Offline
Chief Cook & Instigator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:11 pm
Posts: 7332
however you cant say too much here as some peoples toes will get stepped on

as they sell some of the products and have bought hook line and sinker into the marketing and havent a clue as to the technology used

_________________
Mon-Sat
7am-7pm
http://www.dls.se/en/car/index.html
http://www.iasca.com/

DLS Trinidad and IASCA Caribbean


Top
 Profile  
 
infinite_RPM
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:05 pm 
Offline
Sweet on this forum

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:31 pm
Posts: 370
DDAUDIO wrote:
it is quite difficult to attain 500 degree plus working coil temperatures in a Z Motor.


That Z95 motor has some awesome cooling!!! Im sure that dd made sure that the mag can handle over 500 degrees...without damaging the mag.. Cuz dats something important that u wud need to take into consideration when building the sub isnt that so?????....

anybody have a link to a graph of neo mag strength vs temp?? i wana see something

_________________
slacker_jack wrote:
I have a wall outside, I can rent you it to bang your head against, $500.00 per hour.


Top
 Profile  
 
(...Rovin...)
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:33 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR Power Seller
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:30 pm
Posts: 4639
Location: Chaguanas...
but in a pure SPL sub which only needs 3 seconds of burp\sine wave : will the temp shoot up that hot in such a short space of time to cause any harmful effect to the neo magnet ? .... :?

_________________
153.0 dbs with 1 15" on Iasca Meter 11\4\2010


[See my items for sale in the Car Audio Classifieds section : Decks \ Speakers \ Subs]


Top
 Profile  
 
riadb
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:09 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR Power Seller

Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:39 am
Posts: 2358
Location: Freeport, Trinidad
i think the temperature in the coil does reach a very high point during SPL bursts as power levels are wayyy beyond the recommended ratings for continuous power handling..

think of it like turning on a light bulb for 5 seconds.

_________________
Extreme Audio & Performance
Cerwin Vega Mobile, Orion, MTX, Quantum Audio
738-8547


Top
 Profile  
 
infinite_RPM
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:47 pm 
Offline
Sweet on this forum

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:31 pm
Posts: 370
dats one time where you would want to follow manufacturers specs....

_________________
slacker_jack wrote:
I have a wall outside, I can rent you it to bang your head against, $500.00 per hour.


Top
 Profile  
 
kurpal_v2
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:14 pm 
Offline
Shifting into 6th
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:17 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: 3 8'' of terror
Add shocker neo to your list...

_________________
Don't compete, never intended to - but... DAMN I LOVE CAR AUDIO


Top
 Profile  
 
Soundstream_626
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:08 pm 
Offline
I LUV THIS PLACE
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:01 pm
Posts: 981
Location: san juan
another neo mag spl sub... incriminator audio warden

Image

shocker brazil is also trying it

Image

_________________
RE named it XXX for a reason ... cus it`s AURAL SEX


Top
 Profile  
 
X_Factor
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:30 pm 
Offline
punchin NOS
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:54 pm
Posts: 3114
Location: St. Augustine
but dont u all think neo mags in spl subs might not make sense in that the main advantage of neos is the weight, and spl built cars dont really care about weight

its making a dent in pro-audio probably because it now makes it easier to transport and lift and handle enclosures with neo speakers compare to normal mags.

_________________
..nothing in this world worth having comes easy...


Top
 Profile  
 
Brian Steele
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:39 pm 
Offline
3NE 2NR for life
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 184
Soundstream_626 wrote:
another neo mag spl sub... incriminator audio warden

Image

shocker brazil is also trying it

Image


The first one looks like a normal motor modified to use neo magnets. The second sub however looks like someone grafted a Aura/Seismic 1808 motor onto it. That's a serious neo mag motor...

_________________
www.diysubwoofers.org


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ask Jeeves [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
3NE-2NR