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Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

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X2
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Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby X2 » August 10th, 2011, 3:00 am

Alllllrightly then.

Let's keep this thread clean. Smack talk within reason and don't Jim Carey the shifT and talk out of your arse.

2011... it's going to be heaven.

2012... (well I don't have a rhyme for 12...)

But I do have a plan for 2012 and like a drunk indian once said... it's time for change. More power, more brakes and more suspension. For those of you in the know, my hatch, the Clone, runs a B18C1 and makes a mild 160whp. The car runs well and holds it's own on a drag strip as well as in autocross, but I'm one greedy SOB and I just like to make a grown man cry... so I want to address the power issue. The car will be used primarly for autocross/solodex and as a daily driver when my right foot needs exercise.

My options...

#1)
Stock CR B18c/c1, custom turbo kit, moderate boost, goal... under 300whp on pump gas.

pros: Turbo, lots of experience with turbo B's, already have 80% of the parts, did I mention Turbo ?
Cons: Lag, more parts to maintain, boost is just like good sex... you always want more.

#2)
K20 swap, N/A, stock internals, bolt ons, tuning

pros: Stock engine, stock reliability, better weight distribution, 6 speed tranny, good gas mileage, gobs of instant torque
Cons: Lots of fab work means I can't do the swap at home, N/A again ? :-/, poor $ per HP ratio

There's always another choice when I'm involved...

...the game changer:

#3)
Built SOHC, custom CR, custom turbo kit and sub 300whp power goal.

Pros: Stroke IYMC, torque=hp, weight savings, its a challenge, a sohc costs what ? A cookie ?
Cons: err...it's a challenge, Only 1 cam to play with, weaker tranny and axles, I can't find a D16y8 if my life depended on it.

Well, help a honda bro out.... advise, discuss, debate... I'm interested to hear what you think...

X2

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby red_dragon » August 10th, 2011, 8:50 am

surprised men not on this like ants on sugar


all the builds are fun ..

and K for the first time for you :twisted:

but coming down to $$ vs HP gain the B18 on PSI is the cheapest
and for comfort all prices allow you to keep AC and PS


18 on PSI = 300 = $4*+ since u already have the engine and management
that price caters for full forge and nothing external stock

k20 = 200 - 250 = price u get it for and $60+
installing and bolt on

D15 = <300 = $20+ but how long would it last unless u spend extra for internals
Stock engine and LSD for full forged ... add $10k

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby JDM_GUY » August 10th, 2011, 11:11 am

Boost the b18

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby bluesteel29 » August 10th, 2011, 3:11 pm

X2 wrote:The car will be used primarly for autocross/solodex and as a daily driver when my right foot needs exercise.


go with the K

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby r3iXmann » August 10th, 2011, 3:26 pm

K ftw. newer technology, way more reliable, 6fwd and better weight distribution as you said

plus..always good to be different :mrgreen:

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby turbochinee » August 10th, 2011, 3:37 pm

I don't know what your budget is but with mine, I would go with the D-Series boost. These little engines make some nice torque when boosted. Plus it will hurt more if i damage a K-series over a D-Series :|

But yes a d16y8 is like gold to get. Plus a LSD box

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby Kinday » August 10th, 2011, 5:07 pm

I would go K.
FD, effective cfm mods and it all good in the EG....you know that :wink:
Even without going heavy overboard, 260+whp daily isn't really a stretch considering the dynamics of that engine. That would be my target.....but that's just me....cause we got a serious boosted B in house already and I live for the desire to be creative.

Turbo is awesome no doubt, but you can let your frikking balls hang out the windows with real NA power.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby phaze » August 10th, 2011, 9:21 pm

both K and boosted B would be nice. but more power for $ would be the boosted B, plus he has some parts already and have done it before (local, i dont know).
in the long run the cost to boost that GSR would be much cheaper, and reliability all boils down to the tune. if that boosted B is tuned right and not beat on every day, it will last just as long as an NA engine, well maybe just as long. plus a GSR aint that hard to get if it doesnt work out.
lag isnt a major issue as im sure u already kno X.
BOOST THAT B!

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby dok_tec » August 11th, 2011, 3:32 am

k option sounds pretty nice for the reliability and 6spd.

Is it worth considering a supercharged b series? you're gonna get great low end torque and pricing on a used jackson supercharger which you could push to 12psi with the right pulley would run you 10-12k
combined with a well honed block and forged pistons/rods would give a great daily.
I pushed when i had my 18c to supercharge simply because noone else/barely anyone i know runs this setup down here.Its something different right and you're gonna have great torque and power curves

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby phaze » August 11th, 2011, 7:56 am

supercharging is not a bad option but he will be limited too how much PSI he can ran, 10-12 max maybe, and will cost just as much as turbocharging. with a boosted option he can always upgrade if he decides/needs too. with stock internals that GSR on boost would be great, with upgraded internals even better.
BOOST THAT B!

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby High_Speed_Imports » August 11th, 2011, 3:24 pm

all depends on your budget pal gimme a figure and will try to list out cost factors

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby phaze » August 11th, 2011, 9:35 pm

i think he already knows the cost factors for any one of these "upgrades". just wants to see what ppl thoughts are on em.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby keving MCc » August 11th, 2011, 11:30 pm

i would go K.......................... it's newer technology, and besides.............................hearing a vtec kick in an all-motor is sooooo awsomeeeeee :)

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby SR » August 12th, 2011, 3:36 pm

sigh

misses my eg


k20

na stock

based on hp figures quoted above at less than 300hp traction will be better as well as mid range gearing will be more repsonsive rather than waiting for a turbo to spool


reliability
tunability newer technology

keep in mid is this going to be a daily driver and weekend warrior the k has my vote

if however its a weekend warrior/traloir queen then boos the sheit outa the b18

sadly there is no track and unless you plan on street racing you will never fully enjoy launching that option

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby honda hoe » August 12th, 2011, 8:46 pm

Let's keep this thread clean. Smack talk within reason


K series is for ballers

B series is for haters who secretly wanna be ballers

carry on

:lol:

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby X2 » August 13th, 2011, 4:22 pm

I'm a baller who secretly wants to be a hater... but then I'd have to hate on myself and that would suck.

Ok... we have no drag track and if we ever do, I will find myself down there with either the boost turned up or a bottle to nurse on, you can count on that. The car is really a weekend warrior, race-whore moreso that a daily driver.

Don't worry about costs, I have full spreadsheets done long time. Don't worry about what parts I have already as those can always be sold to fun the plan. Check my options, it's based on research and narrowed down to the best, most reasonable 3.

Honestly the K seems like a tempting option but the swap is very involved since I will likely opt to do alot of the detail work myself. I would likely stay all stock internals for a while... the damn swap, parts and engine alone will suck the budget dry..so I don't think I'd be all up in the 260whp range anytime soon. But I can soooo see myself getting bored of the civility of it.

Turbo B or even D can be made into a 3 day install if it's planned right...so less hassle. Price difference/spread between the 3 options is actually not major, but I will tell you that the K swap is the most expensive and the B and D series running a close 2nd and 3rd.
For turbo, assume both D and B options are going to at least have forged pistons/rods. I can choose a turbo to significantly eliminate boost lag so that's not a huge 'con', but it would be a pricier proposition since I can easily buy a more common turbo for half the money.

Jackson s/c... forget it... reliability of a used supercharger is not worth the money being paid... you will spend twice that rebuilding or upgrading the charger... unless I buy a brand new one which will eclipse $20k before it's even bolted on.

Where de ants boy ?

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby phaze » August 13th, 2011, 5:29 pm

exactly X. seems like u already planning on which way to go already.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby Hirotoshi » August 13th, 2011, 9:10 pm

seeing that you have considered a k20 swap,means you at least have $35k to kill. i would build the the b18c (it is a proven foundation,with a lot of aftermarket support) 300hp can be made easily, when properly done (9.0-10.0cr,forged rods,arp head studs,650cc injectors,engine management(ignition & fuel),maybe a custom grind stage 1 turbo cam,use the best quality parts you can afford, all the best with the build 8-) .

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby New Breed » August 14th, 2011, 8:54 pm


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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby speedfreak44 » August 15th, 2011, 12:15 am

Hirotoshi wrote:seeing that you have considered a k20 swap,means you at least have $35k to kill. i would build the the b18c (it is a proven foundation,with a lot of aftermarket support) 300hp can be made easily, when properly done (9.0-10.0cr,forged rods,arp head studs,650cc injectors,engine management(ignition & fuel),maybe a custom grind stage 1 turbo cam,use the best quality parts you can afford, all the best with the build 8-) .


x2

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby TK! » August 15th, 2011, 1:02 am

walks in... sees discussion...

buss a steups and say ... "buy a stock EVO"

cause 300 on FWD < 300 hp on four wheels.

*ducks

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby High_Speed_Imports » August 15th, 2011, 2:56 pm

i trying not to say anything. But plenty men just ole talking no facts steups.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby ek4ever » August 15th, 2011, 4:27 pm

Boosted B ... talk done. Far more tuning potential and not require all the fab work you say the K will require. B series good reliability too but I would still spend some $$ on beefing up the internals.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby supermario » August 16th, 2011, 9:55 am

Just my thoughts on the topic...check this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeJod5TxVag

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby No Fear at all!!! » August 16th, 2011, 12:07 pm

AhhhhhhBoy!!! is about time!!!! BOOST 'D' DAMN 18!!!! turbo lag is not an issue just change the back end of it. Oh and by d way when it boosted doh let 'short man wes' drive it he may want to carry it home!!! LOL!!!! :evilbat:

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby halfdef » August 16th, 2011, 6:47 pm

Boosted B18c should do you well

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby Sky » August 17th, 2011, 10:56 pm

For X2....

B - Been there.
D - Done that.

Go with the K.
Newer and more technology to play with. Add the other pros and we have a winner.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby X2 » August 19th, 2011, 1:12 am

Newbreed wrote:i wanna c u do this..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfGZyB4Dl-k


The car in that video is old hat and ridiculously fast... I believe it is fully built and I don't feel like spending $80,000... we don't have enough Firebirds to hunt.

TK! wrote:walks in... sees discussion...

buss a steups and say ... "buy a stock EVO"

cause 300 on FWD < 300 hp on four wheels.

*ducks


Don't duck... keep looking... don't bother with the above options...I can beat a stock EVO now... with $1.00 of premium, a coke and a smile.

HSI... talk nah... what is your input on the subject ?

To control costs, it's looks like this.. a stock block, forged internal B, stock sleeve and bore, stock cams and my own select mix of parts otherwise. I prefer to build an engine that can race on weekends or go to work every day.

Taking forever to finalize turbo selection but I have already narrowed to 3 options and this would be the deciding factor. Believe it or not, the turbo D will utilize the same options as the B would... (don't ask... I ent telling).

The K is just really tempting as the technology is good, a square engine just seems like a great building block... but that's all it will be for a while.... a building block.... but what a nasty block it would be. Bolt on 10hp here, tune in 20hp there... Honda really is the power of dreams... lol

Now here's the K20 porn.... I'll be actually looking at a straight K24a2. 200hp/160+ tq with a ITR transmission. Basic bolt ons, management and a 50 shot of nitrous on a stock longblock will put the car into the territory of a sub 300whp B series.

But nitrous doesn't fall out mango trees....

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby civic2nv » August 20th, 2011, 4:27 pm

Farah boost the B. you have 2 very good examples of GSR on boost built right. If that is the power level u wanna reach. forget the D not reliable without breaking the bank. Look for longevity know to save $ in the future. K if u plan to stay NA.

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Re: Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

Postby supermario » August 27th, 2011, 4:58 pm

Boost the B and long term go for a k series.

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