Man UP... K20 or Turbo B

[kes_vtec]

i have seen you and your other driver, so if you do plan to stay on dex, if you can put a typeS K20 in your car for less that 30k (installed and running) do it, else go for 10-psi on a small turbo and you will have a very nice dex monster, plus u have a s300 already, just and boost.

and i think u know y i tell you type s and not type r

[X2]

do they even bring in type s motors here ?

[red_dragon]

things to consider with a

K20s vs R

No LSD ...
base figure close to you at present
eg. just to get a S to R is $$$10+

PSI will set you free

[Honda_Crew]

1,998 cc (1.998 L; 121.9 cu in), 185 PS (136 kW; 182 hp) @8000, 196 N·m (145 lb·ft) @7000:
2002-2004 Honda Integra Type-S (DC5)
1,998 cc (1.998 L; 121.9 cu in), 210 PS (150 kW; 210 hp) @7800, 191 N·m (141 lb·ft) @4000:
2005-2006 Honda Integra Type-S (DC5)

The S has alot of potential. Saw this with my own eyes with a fellow tuner's integra.
I myself went ahead to get a S after seeing what it can do...

[X2]

Guys... I do research eh... and have also driven type S and type R motors in dc5's so no need to sell me on any particular K series. If I go K, it will be down to budget and will be shooting for a K24 for my purposes.

The real challenge here is boost vs K.... I've been down the boost road before (over and over) and it is just addictive. K power is however very attractive, particularly on our short stretches of road.... but the limited power potential for the same price as forging and turboing a B just makes me bite my knuckles when pricing out a 'stock' K swap...

c'mon ! more relevant discussion... I'm more interested in discussing the intricacies of the options then just looking at figures and pictures (pics never hurt eh...)


ahem...

[kes_vtec]

u know how this convo goes...
use of the car drag or dex
type of person you really are at heart (NA or Boost)
do you like tried and true or you don't mixing it up a bit.
times you are looking to run or group placing you will like to be in
who is the person to want to beat. and how far is the gap between you two
are you going all out or just fun,

[X2]

I'm talking about intricacies of the work versus results.

I will race in any type of event and will be going into a taste rally at the first real opportunity.

We have no solid mospo available except rally, autocross and limited road race events such as the drag/time attacks of recent. The car will ALWAYS be on the card for drag racing whenever it becomes available. When I built the engine as it stands now, it was built for a daily driven car that was meant for nitrous on the weekends. I made some modifications to put it in the hatch and focused the car on drag events so it's not a problem to build an all rounder or even swap parts as necessary to suit my needs for the next event. There is no need in Trinidad for me to do a purpose-build as we have nothing to build for aside from autocross format events which... lets face it... I can do with anything down to a stock sohc motor.

We have no solid rules on circuit in place and I'm not building to meet scca or nhra rules since nothing close to that exists here anyway.... car may see action up the islands from time to time... but again... not purpose built. Next year... assume the car will be either EP or EP-R in solodex.

[High_Speed_Imports]

Boss if u have avg 35k U can build a monster K i say as a rule add a additional 5k for hidden stuff

[honda hoe]

X2 was d real purpose of this ched?

u know more than 99% of the ricers in here

i know u researched all possibilities and are fully aware of the pros and cons of each

and i figure u already have ur mind set on a particular set up

i don't think anyone in here can change ur mind

or give u any info that u don't already know

[kes_vtec]

^^^ lol... he looking for something else

[R. Mutt]

Boost the b18

^ Stick with tried and true...you know it and know it well. Plus with left over money you can address aesthetic issues....I love the clone but she need some TLC.

[dgobo]

^^ talk done

[bluesteel29]

was wondering wah chassis dat gonna sit dong een

[X2]

HSI... stop playin meng... you know it's going to take that much just to put a stock K into the bay...I ent even thinking about spending that kind of flow on building a K. It'd be more sense to do the turbo B balls out (which I won't be doing) than to actually build a K.

X2 was d real purpose of this ched?

u know more than 99% of the ricers in here

i know u researched all possibilities and are fully aware of the pros and cons of each

and i figure u already have ur mind set on a particular set up

i don't think anyone in here can change ur mind

or give u any info that u don't already know

Trying to promote discussion is all. You're correct on all counts... except one... changing my mind.

I haven't made a final decision yet. Want to see some good convo on the topic (IF POSSIBLE)... the Honda community can't stay in the rice age forever... I have faith that we too can progress. Plus... it's the 1% that will bring forth the best opinions (if they talk)... so talk nuh !

Any of the decisions listed will put a silly smirk on anyone's face, including mine... so decision 1,2 or 3 all are winners... discussion couldn't hurt.

And nooo... is not a chain up Kes... lol

Dgobo... this a freakin sick... freakin SiCK. A basic rotrex kit would definitely be the next step for a K... a long time from now

Hoe... what's your opinion on the stock K and power expectations ? Is the type R engine worth the ridiculous money ? If so... why ?

[Silvermike]

i've been loving the K series for a lil while now. coming from a strong boosted background over the last 6 yrs, I'd say the K is very fun. power is usable and tq comes quickly - over 6krpm of powerband.

That being said my supercharged b16a back in the day was great as well. but the beauty of it was the tq profile... basically looks like a larger displacement engine rather than a boost engine.

So my vote - stock k20, then comtech supercharge it.

[THOMAS]

I have driven a k20a NA for 3 years then went boost (7psi).
There was no turning back.

I like that feeling and have built the engine for more boost (12psi). For the last 4 months I have done some street tuning on weekends and it feels great.


I have never owned a turbo B, so I would have to say turbo K20 ivtec






.

[kes_vtec]

after really thinking about it K...
i planed to used these Drag and wind(ing) runs to bring out some of my honda cars, and show ppl, rice age is done...
right now i am running a stock b18 with a best time of 41.7xx, but will love to put a stock k in that baby...

x2... K for the win...

[dgobo]

^^ Kes for the next event come pick up the FD, and see what she can do, cause i am sure i'll be at work.

[X2]

Kes... ya'll did 41.7 or 51.7 ? B series GTR killer ? heheheh

I am looking to take a spin in a local K swap in an EG or EK to get my bearings straight. Last DC5 I drove really just seemed slower to rev than a stock B series.... although power and torque was better. Just really going through all the complication and sheer number of parts just to swap in a K series (PROPERLY and CLEAN)... it's involved... as involved IMO as doing the turbo kit on the B (don't even factor in the rebuild). If you see the parts list I have made for the K swap and I'm not even 100% done.

DOing the turbo B will require me to tailor the build for short course racing primarly and maybe have a different turbo and tune if actual drag racing ever makes it back home... quick spooling, medium boost on a properly sized turbo and I will Definintely have wheel spin issues in the low end... on the other hand... wheel spin makes me smile.

[kes_vtec]

^^ Kes for the next event come pick up the FD, and see what she can do, cause i am sure i'll be at work.

duh make that joke.....

yeah boy X2... lol...

[High_Speed_Imports]

I back in here again .

I doing this in fast mode pay attention to our i post

Timing is key to keeping budget low that being said, get the following:

1.RD5 motor 5000TTD
2.Tranny of choice based on gearing 8000-12000TTD
3. K pro! stock ECU wasting time*** price varies Sherwin should be selling 1***
4. Mount Kit 3500TTD
5. Harness and accessories ***Keezay*** for some reason he have alot of spares
6.Wire vehicle 1000***Keezay***

Yes i know some minor stuff missing it's just a draft and prices are realistic.

As for buying a ITR for the swap waste of money! not saying it don't perform just simply build motor if u have that money to spend.

Casting for block is same as RD5 and it has been confirmed not ole talk, This is a thread for over some beers eh cuz i could go on and on.

Tally of figures and take into consideration you will still have a GSR motor complete to sell back. Avg15k, If you don't do the swap i will and document stuff when i get bored next year and run the Boosted B

[red_dragon]

^ the build makes sense but the gains not

at $15k for 30whp ....

from $15k on the GSR with PSI he will more than double 30whp








BTW I had that same discussion with kezay months aback and it makes sense for someone who have nada and now coming in

because for a $30k RD5 stock with tuning at 190+

u not getting that from any stock B-series with tuning

[X2]

Well maybe we hadda have some beers...

... you have d beers... is shots for me...lol

There are advantages beyond the $$ and the HP. I'm considering the things like K performance is stronger in certain places regarding powerband and it's balance... both internally and regarding neutrality and weight distribution. *cough*especially as it's designed for a rhd car. Running a stock honda motor is about the best thing you can do for reliability too... 'that's a huge plus considering the abuse the motor will see.

The B series however, revs faster (even n/a imo) and is just more prevalent for parts, easier to replace and I'd say still overall cheaper..... Whereas the K swap would force me to invest in aftermarket axles, making the swap more expensive yet again.

[Silvermike]

^ i dont know why u say Bees rev faster than kays. you need to feel mine

[X2]

You have a K series ? Since when ?! lets go for a spin nuh

It's just the geometry of the engine... the K is more stable, but the B's do spin up faster all other things being equal.... ie... similar hp levels. It becomes really apparent when you get up to 4th and 5th gears. *covers mouth*

[High_Speed_Imports]

Well maybe we hadda have some beers...
Whereas the K swap would force me to invest in aftermarket axles, making the swap more expensive yet again.

This is not 2002 when only a selected few hard dig in these motors, You don't need axles a fellow tuner recently bought a Type S and motor is installed and mobile.

Additional parts he needed are as follows:
1. DC5 rad
2.Mount Kit
3.Fuel line

[Sky]

What about power steering?

[High_Speed_Imports]

What about power steering?

nothing needed to be done. Car is mobile

[X2]

Nothing need be done for Power steering ? You mean he have no power steering now... lol

HSI, I hear you but if I'm doing that swap there are certain things I won't be 'cheaping out' on... radiator, axles and a select few other parts including harness... ie... it won't be a base budget swap. Some of it will be upgrade vs replace, I gotta compare apples to apples... or rather dollar for dollar in my comparisons.

[Silvermike]

Just a few weeks now. Been tuning/ general maintenance etc. Working at 90% potential now.