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Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B2

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Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B2

Postby Tired Accord » September 20th, 2011, 8:01 am

I haven't been on this forum in a loonnnng lonnng time. I went over to nissan for the past few years, but I still own the CD4. It only has some minor upgrades: Injen CAI, powerslot slotted front rotors and Tokico illumina springs and shocks kit sitting on 16" Enkei 5+ wheels (really old sh!t). The suspension is still in great condition. The engine works fairly well. But the transmission seems to be kinda fo*ked up. The gears don't go in smoothly, and there is some kind of wobble coming out of - likely - the cups on the transmission.

That said, I am contemplating doing a swap to maybe an H22 or even something newer, but keep it automatic. Sometimes I loan the car to visiting family - so I don't want to stress them with manual, but the transmission must be able to hold up to limited extra power.
Also - if I go down that route - I would like to upgrade the rear drums to discs and even ABS if possible.
Whatever different engine I go with, I would like to have minimal interface issues with the car's original electrical and gauges.

What do you guys advise on that? I have no idea of costs associated with engines, transmission and brakes. I just want to have an idea of what I can get for what. Budget - no clue, but say under 10 grand.

I have no horsepower goal or anything like that. Just want it to be a lil more reliable and solid with some extra zip in it.
Thanks guys.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CIVIC30 » September 20th, 2011, 10:18 am

h22 imo

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby Tired Accord » September 20th, 2011, 1:25 pm

I just did a wikipedia read of the H22 - of which there are SEVERAL variants. How do you distinguish them, aside from red/black covers?

I would like to know how you could tell if the year of assembly is more recent than another. Although - I know an older engine could be in better shape than a newer engine.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby adriano7910 » September 20th, 2011, 10:41 pm

f20b dohc blue top with the tiptronic transmission will be a better performance option than h22 on auto. the f20 engine losses less power through the tranny than h22 and is lighter revs higher and is stronger

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby Tired Accord » September 21st, 2011, 12:17 pm

where I getting that breads? and price?

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby adriano7910 » September 21st, 2011, 12:35 pm

civic30 in this thread might be able to help you find one i believe. this uses f series mounts and is odb2 axles everything was made for accords as the engine came with a accord

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » September 21st, 2011, 1:08 pm

Well well....
I guess I am the man to help you on this...

You have multiple options with this accord really so lets start at engine:

1. F20B2 is a super reliable motor. It may be a bit down on power due to its SOHC, non-vtec and low revving design, but it responds REALLY REALLY well to head porting and forced induction .. ie. turbo.
The automatic transmissions on these have held up to turbocharging before, but I wouldnt do that if it was going to be a daily driver.. Most turbo setups definitely go the manual route

2. If you do not want to turbo, you really only have two worthwhile engine options for this vehicle..
H22 as was mentioned before and F20B twin cam (bluetop)... Both put out roughly similar figures with the F20 being a slightly higher revving and higher compression motor to make up for the difference in displacement..
I would start looking around bamboo and doing some comparative pricing... H22 is easier to source parts from in the US if you ever need to though..

Both of these motors come with automatic if you can find it and the transmission is designed to take abuse.. You will lose about 20 hp on each engine when choosing the auto instead of manual though. so around 180hp instead of 200.. Also, if you are on the stock exhaust, I dont think those will take too nicely to it so you may be looking at an upgrade (to go along with the CAI you already have)


About the suspension setup you have.. Looks very promising. All it will need are some good tyres and possibly one of the energy suspension or prothane polyurethane bushing kits..

About the rear drum to disc.. I am currently in the process of amassing parts to get mine done..
If the vehicle didn't come with ABS, its unlikely you will ever really be able to go that route as its a real nightmare...
Basically this is the cost of converting the rear..

Rear disc conversion hardware is about $1000 in the bamboo,
i bought new brembo sport slotted rotors for the rear.. about $140 US
used 40/40 proportioning valve to make the rear brakes do some work , about $40 US
You will most likely need new brake lines as well because the people im bamboo tend to cut them, so I bought a set of goodridge stainless steel lines for about $150 US

Overall everyone who has done the rear disc swap has loved it, but they all agree that you NEED the 40/40 proportioning valve to make it worthwhile..
Some tend to upgrade the master cylinder from 15/16" to 1" but I don't think its really necessary..

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby Tired Accord » September 21st, 2011, 1:30 pm

CD4 Thanks alot for the great advice! I was concerned about parts for the blue top F20B- although it seems that chances are that would be a "newer" engine than the H22. I can get parts from the US generally easily. But would parts for the blue top be "difficult" to get?

The current exhaust has some leaks (due to age and rust) so that is expected to change. But I don't want to change to the same size just yet if I'm contemplating doing a swap. I had it in mind to upgrade the exhaust any ways.

I also agree that the SOHC f20b is a solid performer. It does rev nicely, and I can't tell that there is anything wrong with the engine. Although I hardly ever drive the car anymore. I've kinda handed it down to a young cousin.

I was reading on Honda-tech that I could potentially change the entire rear to one that has discs. That should come with all the necessary lines -except the hard piping? I also have an ABS "proportionator" thingy (from a nose cut that had abs). Would that work? I imagine to have full ABS - I would need to install sensors and an ABS ECU? I probably won't go down that route though.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » September 21st, 2011, 2:13 pm

exactly that.. You would need ABS wheel speed sensors and the accompanying ecu etc.. I dont know many who have tried to convert the car to ABS.. Not worth it in this case if you know how to drive it..

I don't think f20b parts are impossible, but many preludes in the US came factory with the h22 so it makes it much easier to get parts... Also might work better as an automatic seeing as you won't have to rev it quite as high to get power...

I personally began building up my f20b2 but in a way I wish I hadnt comitted to it.. I didnt realise how cheaply a H22 could be purchased (pre tsusami) and it would have probably been worth my while to just buy the swap.. That said, i'll stick with my single cam for now and make the most of it..
---

The exhaust upgrade is a must but of course dont get carried away on piping size.. Decide what engine you want first and then work it from there...
---

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby Tired Accord » September 21st, 2011, 3:04 pm

I didnt realise how cheaply a H22 could be purchased (pre tsusami)


^^And how cheaply was that? Transmission included?

Agree on the ABS story.

As you say - I will have to do some looking around for the H22 or blue top.

I wonder if the H22 would be a direct swap regarding mounts? I imagine the blue F20 would.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » September 21st, 2011, 8:49 pm

The F20B bluetop is actually closer to the H22 than it is to the SOHC F20B2, which is actually much closer in build to the F22B2 sold in the US.

About the swap, check out honda-tech.com there is no shortage of writeups or info on doing h22 swaps there..

If I remember prices, I saw complete h22 swaps for as low as $8000tt up to about $20000 tt depending over the last year or so..
Just ask around and see what you can get an idea for

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CIVIC30 » September 22nd, 2011, 9:16 am

i dont have any experience with the h22 but i have an f20b dohc in my euro accord and i just installed a cai system ,ohhhhhhhhh! sheit! when vtec kick in pep like that, now regarding parts ,Autonation , Allison Garage in sea lots, Steetwise on the forum and a few other places but set aside plenty time to search if you know what i mean, however i agree H22 parts might be a bit easier to source locally

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby Tired Accord » September 22nd, 2011, 9:42 am

i have an f20b dohc in my euro accord


Sweet! Any chance I could see that set up? I am in tong everyday up St. Clair side (live in Chaguanas).

CD4 20 grand you say ???!! WDMC! Well I will have to look around.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CIVIC30 » September 22nd, 2011, 10:12 am

no problem i am in St James everyday 325-4975

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » September 22nd, 2011, 11:21 pm

I did say UP TO 20 grand.. Dont expect that to be the normal.. Id say more in the region of 10,000 usually...

I am an F series lover because i feel like h22 has been overplayed up in the US (where i lived for a few years) but in terms of practicality.. I would do the H22 anyday.. No shortage of replacement and aftermarket parts for it, the f20 dohc you will have to look quite a bit deeper..

can you give me some more info on "Allison Garage in sea lots"... Never heard of this one, where exactly is it located?

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby chindian88 » October 8th, 2011, 12:50 am

any update on "Allison Garage is Sea Lots"?

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CIVIC30 » October 8th, 2011, 5:40 am

Allison Hamilton Garage -enter sea lots from bagwansingh side when you go around the sharp corner check the second/third building on the right ,but its the one that has the z-bart/straightening garage #10A Production Ave, when you enter the compound go straight and make a left ,its the last place on the right, or if i lost you just call them at 627-8455

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby ray d saint » October 11th, 2011, 3:55 pm

great advise in here guys.... i am also looking to swap out my f20b.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » October 11th, 2011, 11:24 pm

Why everyone ditching the F20B2 so? What about the boost option?

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby chindian88 » October 14th, 2011, 5:25 pm

i have a F18b :(

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » October 14th, 2011, 10:23 pm

Nothing wrong with the F18B, its fairly torquey for its size..

I just love F series Honda... Its so bulletproof!

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CIVIC30 » October 15th, 2011, 6:36 pm

I just love F series Honda... Its so bulletproof!
X2 FOR SURE

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby chindian88 » October 18th, 2011, 9:05 am

where can i get a cai for it?

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby chindian88 » October 18th, 2011, 9:06 am

also want to get on of these bumpers

Image

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » October 18th, 2011, 10:31 am

I usually order all my performance parts online so I'm not sure where to suggest you look for a cai...

Why not attempt one of the DIY jobs like that featured on Honda-Tech?
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1869022

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby Advil » October 19th, 2011, 8:01 pm

boosted F20 ftw, there's a silver Euro Accord rolling around under boost.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby chindian88 » October 21st, 2011, 7:06 pm

yeah i've seen it before, looks and sounds pretty good.

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CIVIC30 » October 21st, 2011, 8:01 pm

yeah and the work was done by Toney from Maloney, its a silver Torneo Accord, boosted f20b single cam

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby CD4Accord » October 21st, 2011, 10:47 pm

I wonder what sort of numbers he is pushing with that boost? I could expect around 200 to be a relatively easily attainable goal..

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Re: Need advice - what engine upgrade for CD4 Accord w/ F20B

Postby anoojra » December 18th, 2013, 10:37 pm

Reviving this thread... :)

I want some advise on what gearbox to get for my car, got a CD4 Accord with a SOHC F20B engine and a tranny that has seen better days.

thinking of converting to manual and boosting the engine and then maybe later dropping in a H22 that would work with what ever gearbox that i'm putting in.

I have no knowledge of what box can work with what engine so thats where you guys come in.

BTW i dont minds getting a box with a close ratio since i may use the car mainly for solodex


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