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Mic
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Postby Mic » April 21st, 2018, 9:09 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 21st, 2018, 10:54 pm

Mic wrote:Hey guys, thanks for taking the time to help me. So the story starts about 3 weeks ago:

I have a CS2 lancer singapore foreign used import. Car is at about 208,000 KM. About 3 weeks ago the car started hestiating and misfiring one day when the gas tank was about less than 1/5 , took it to the mechanic, said it was coil pack. Changed both coil packs and spark plugs and serviced throttle body with spray. Car started running a little better.. But when you accelerate from stop its sluggish and hestitating/misfiring. When it picks up speed it works good but then starts to surge and buck randomly. So did some research and online said it could be the fuel pump.

So today I changed the fuel pump, took off negative pole from battery, replaced the fuel pump with an aftermarket one, and put it back in. Put on the negative pole. Tried to start the car, it started, idled for like 10 seconds (RPM when to 1000) then it started dropping and cut off. The entire time you can hear the fuel pump running. When the car idles for those 10 secs, if u mash the gas pedal, the car cuts off.

Checking the front of the car, you getting gas to the intake line to the fuel rail, injectors pulsing, and you getting spark. But the car cuts off after 10 seconds of idling. Another thing I noticed, when you turn the key to the on position, the fuel pump doesnt prime and send out fuel. Only time it sends out fuel is when the engine is cranking or car is idling for those 10 seconds.

Any advice is much appreciated. Tried another Camshaft sensor but same problem. Mechanic tried diagnostic tool and no errors showing up. Or if anyone is a mechanic and could come home by me and take the job to fix this without killing me with price, inbox me

Thanks Fellas..


what after market pump did you use ?? was the pump installed correctly - wired up correctly ??
did you install an after market pressure regulator to ensure the system receives the correct psi pressure of fuel ??

Mic
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Postby Mic » April 21st, 2018, 11:05 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 21st, 2018, 11:21 pm

Mic wrote:
skylinechild wrote:
Mic wrote:Hey guys, thanks for taking the time to help me. So the story starts about 3 weeks ago:

I have a CS2 lancer singapore foreign used import. Car is at about 208,000 KM. About 3 weeks ago the car started hestiating and misfiring one day when the gas tank was about less than 1/5 , took it to the mechanic, said it was coil pack. Changed both coil packs and spark plugs and serviced throttle body with spray. Car started running a little better.. But when you accelerate from stop its sluggish and hestitating/misfiring. When it picks up speed it works good but then starts to surge and buck randomly. So did some research and online said it could be the fuel pump.

So today I changed the fuel pump, took off negative pole from battery, replaced the fuel pump with an aftermarket one, and put it back in. Put on the negative pole. Tried to start the car, it started, idled for like 10 seconds (RPM when to 1000) then it started dropping and cut off. The entire time you can hear the fuel pump running. When the car idles for those 10 secs, if u mash the gas pedal, the car cuts off.

Checking the front of the car, you getting gas to the intake line to the fuel rail, injectors pulsing, and you getting spark. But the car cuts off after 10 seconds of idling. Another thing I noticed, when you turn the key to the on position, the fuel pump doesnt prime and send out fuel. Only time it sends out fuel is when the engine is cranking or car is idling for those 10 seconds.

Any advice is much appreciated. Tried another Camshaft sensor but same problem. Mechanic tried diagnostic tool and no errors showing up. Or if anyone is a mechanic and could come home by me and take the job to fix this without killing me with price, inbox me

Thanks Fellas..


what after market pump did you use ?? was the pump installed correctly - wired up correctly ??
did you install an after market pressure regulator to ensure the system receives the correct psi pressure of fuel ??


Pump works correctly, was a japan brand. But even when I put back the old pump on (Drove the car to go buy the new pump) it doesn't work. Even tried a subaru legacy original pump and same thing.

I think the problem has to do with a relay? Because when I turn the ignition on the pump doesnt turn on to prime, only when im cranking the pump turns on, the car idle for 10 seconds and the pump will supply gas to the fuel rail then the car will drop RPM from 1000 and stall out (happens instant if I mash the gas pedal). There will be no fuel in the return line back to the pump.

From what I reading there are 2 relays that control the fuel pump?

Could it be that something mess up when I take off the negative terminal to install the new pump?


firstly you said its a CS2 lancer...... why are you trying a subaru pump on it ?
secondly - why would there be two relays to control ONE pump ???

do simple check first
if you suspect an electrical issue - check fuel pump fuse and relay once you getting power though the circuit its good.

i still believe its a fuel delivery / fuel pump psi issue as the pump is supposed to prime the system and then stop - which its not doing.

is the fuel pump supplying enough fuel pressure to the system ??

i would think install an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and work from there....

Mic
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Postby Mic » April 21st, 2018, 11:56 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 22nd, 2018, 12:20 am

Mic wrote:

This is the pump I bought from Chuna's:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 81512.html

I used the subaru pump (non turbo) to test if the new pump i had bought was defective but it was not. So i know the pump is good. Also I the fuse is good but I will check the relay in the morning. I believe the mechanic had checked it and said it was also good. He had also clamp the return line from the Fuel pressure regulator and it had the same problem of stalling. So does that mean that the one I have now gone thru?

Doing some research online says that some signs of a bad FPR is stalling when mashing the gas pedal so you could be right.


its a normal looking fuel pump. what you need to understand is that factory fuel pumps are mae to work with factory fuel pressure regulators.

factory fuel pressure regulators (FPR) are not adjustable and are set / built like that from factory.
they already take into account the factory pump psi pressure as well as injector spray (cc)

so if you replace the pump with an aftermarket one you may not get it to run correctly.
what your mechanic did by clamping off / restricting the return line was to increase the fuel pressure of the rail and injectors to get it to run.

find out what the correct fuel pressure is for your car - get an aftermarket FPR install and work from there.

carb cars Fuel pressure is from 4psi to 15 psi
EFI cars fuel pressure is from 15- 60 psi
GDi cars fuel pressure is anywhere from 100 psi to 2900psi.

Mic
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Postby Mic » April 22nd, 2018, 5:39 am

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 22nd, 2018, 3:51 pm

Mic wrote: Or besides that it could also mean the the FPR I have right now completely gone thru. Since when I open the pump assembly the old pump I took out looked aftermarket aswell which means that the people I buy the car from before also had changed the pump and used back the same FPR.

Now the FPR gone thru so it not holding any pressure at all. If I can remember correctly I think I did see some fluid leaking from the exhaust pipe the day before when I cleaned the throttle body and when I first start the car after installing the pump a cloud of black smoke from the muffler. So ill start first by changing the FPR



what fluid did you see leaking form the tail pipe ???
also black smoke is a indicator of a bad FPR leaking fuel from the tail pipe as well as running rich (excessive fuel) leading to carbon buildup....

lets hope you didnt flood the cylinders with fuel and end up wall washing the cylinder.

you can remove the spark plugs and using a light and a magnifying glass take a look inside the combustion chamber and see if theres any fuel sitting in there - seeing as how its EFI i doubt it but you can check nonetheless.

if you do see fuel you can leave the car with the plugs off overnight to allow the fuel to evaporate....

drain and refil fresh oil if necessary as if fuel made its way past the oil control rings and gets mixed in with the oil it will thin it out and then youre in some trouble..

replace fuel pressure regulator ...set the correct pressure and work from there.

Mic
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Postby Mic » April 22nd, 2018, 6:20 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 22nd, 2018, 6:29 pm

Mic wrote: I saw either fuel or throttle body spray leaking from the exhaust the day before all of this happen when i cleaned the throttle body. So I doubt the cylinder flooded because it was leaking before the fuel pump was changed and when car was working. So they leads me to think that its the FPR.

Someone also said the same thing and said it could maybe be a leaky injector or is that not possible since all injectors are pulsing. I think the option I have is to try and get the FPR foreign used or buy the whole rail with injectors and FPR.


a foreign used OEM FPR may not work anymore as it cannot be adjusted.
a factory FPR already has a preset valving that would bleed off a certain amount of pressure.
the pressure is given by the factory fuel pump.

since you changed fuel pump the pressure coming from the pump will NOT be the same as the factory pump.
. it will be either too hi or too low.

so you will have to get an aftermarket adjustable fuel pressure regulator ....and install it.
easier way to fix the issue - plus you can dial up the pressure if its too low or reduce it if its too high.

you just need to know whats the factory fuel pressure - pis- from the factory pump.

i never understood the sense in buying an entire rail and injectors etc just to get one part.

Mic
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Postby Mic » April 22nd, 2018, 7:46 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 22nd, 2018, 8:09 pm

Mic wrote:
Thanks for being patient with me.. From the research I find, it says the Stock fuel pressure is about 3 Bars = 38-43PSI which sounds about right a for a 1.5L engine. You have any idea how much for a cheap aftermarket FPR so I would know if I getting robbed or just to buy it online... Thanks again

EDIT: https://turkish.alibaba.com/product-det ... 87549.html

That is the aftermarket pump I bought and the specs say it is 3BAR PSI which means that the Stock FPR should work not so? Will see whichever one is easiest to get if thats the case.


3 bars sounds about right....3 bar is actually 43 psi...
from your research it seems that they will work together.
go ahead of you want to try a f used FPR ... weigh out the cost of a f used over a new fully adjustable FPR.

dunno about pricing on a new adjustable FPR.
you'd have to check around the performance shops like tuner imports or garvins performance or blue coral racing or peak performance or teknet performance ( run a google / facebook search)

they will be better able to assist you in choosing a regulator and supply the necessary fittings in order to install it.

Mic
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Postby Mic » April 22nd, 2018, 8:34 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 26th, 2018, 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 22nd, 2018, 9:00 pm

Mic wrote:
Yeah only reason I would go with the Foreign used is cuz I seeing men calling 1050$ for a Aeromotive FPR lol so I assuming the price will be ridiculous.. When I hear a fuel rail with injectors and FPR is $600 in the bamboo lol.. Which check around tmrw tho and see if anywhere have universal ones for decent price. Will post back with results.


$1050 is a good price for a genuine fully adjustable FPR.

try to stay away from the knock off Chinese no name units these do more damage than good.

aim for a solid quality unit...HKS, Sard, Tomei, Aeromotive, Turbosmart & AEM are all good quality brands.
ensure it comes with the necessary bracket and gauge too

Mic
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Joined: February 3rd, 2012, 6:58 pm

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Postby Mic » April 27th, 2018, 11:08 pm

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Last edited by Mic on September 27th, 2018, 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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skylinechild
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Re: 4G18 - Stall upon start

Postby skylinechild » April 27th, 2018, 11:52 pm

Mic wrote:SOLVED - Problem turned out to be a low fuel pressure caused by a crack/leak in the Fuel pump housing.. Changed the housing and problem fixed. Slight missfire still existed which was caused by a small crack in the spark plug wire/ missing rubber from the coil pack boots which goes over the spark plug.


Glad you got thru..... we were both right.... you were loosing fuel pressure.... just not where we thought it was.....

a fuel pressure test would have been a dead give away.

cause if he had simply tested the fuel pressure from the rail and seen it was low.... then it would have been the pump..

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