Effect of upgrading oil cooler on CVT - installed with pics!

nismotrinidappa · Postby **nismotrinidappa** » January 21st, 2007, 1:01 am

so where in trtinidad u gettin the cooler...what stores....i want one.

bamboo?

Alpha_2nr · Postby **Alpha_2nr** » January 21st, 2007, 11:34 am

Why do this in the first place? If a CVT is driven properly (as in not aggressively), then you won't have problems with it. One of our vehicles is a CVT, drives great, no problems etc etc. Just be sure to use the OEM CVT fluid, and change at recommended intervals.

Now MMC's CVT trannies (1st gen ones) tend to be a bit...well...ok..they're not known for their longevity....

so from readin.. its might help the situation ah bit.. and the tranny and oil can live longer!

Unless you really plan to drive aggressively/race, then a tranny oil cooler really isn't necessary. And if you want to drive aggressively, then a CVT is not for you. Simple. The temperature of the oil will be the lest of your problems, as the belts/bands/cones will go much more quickly......due to "flat out" driving.

nismotrinidappa · Postby **nismotrinidappa** » January 21st, 2007, 11:37 pm

nismotrinidappa wrote:so where in trtinidad u gettin the cooler...what stores....i want one.

bamboo?

wagonrunner · Postby **wagonrunner** » January 21st, 2007, 11:43 pm

wagonrunner wrote:according to dave.
FU coolers can he bad fro $200-$400 max. that was a while ago though. when i was still tranny.

"FU" in this case meant foreign used. so yes, d bamboo, and other foreign used parts dealers.

Postby **Dave** » January 22nd, 2007, 10:34 am

one of the ideas even b4 performance is taken into consideration is to remove the absorbed heat from the radiator to the tranny cooler and is esp the case when the rad is changed from alumium to brass
there is also the chance of the oil or water containments units rupturing and contamination the other and possibly damaging the engine or transmission

venum · Postby **venum** » January 22nd, 2007, 5:43 pm

^^^
i was thinking about installing the aftermarket\secondary oil cooler together with the stock\radiator one

what are your thoughts on this?

Knight1, I am not really considering this as a performance option, but mainly as a measure to extend the life of the CVT

and to be fair to the CVT, it put out at high speeds, not great on the low-end torque, but gives good mid-range and high-end torque.

a CVT is not for roughing-up for the very reasons that you have described, well at least not a non-sport CVT like that in my car

Alpha_2nr · Postby **Alpha_2nr** » January 22nd, 2007, 9:25 pm

Knight1, I am not really considering this as a performance option, but mainly as a measure to extend the life of the CVT

Cool. Well in that case, I don't see how installing an oil cooler will extend the life of the CVT...as in many cases, failures may be more related to electronics before anything else. In terms of preventing mechanical failure, I still don't see how an oil cooler is gonna help. At the end of the day, you tranny was designed to run w/o an oil cooler. If you drive "forgivingly" and responsibly with you CVT, then you won't really have to worry about problems. Most of the failures (mechanical) are associated with dumb drivers who accelerate hard, or who go into "tiptronic" mode and rev too hard befroe shifting. That kind of driving puts stress on the tranny......as you would well know. Avoid that, and you should be ok.

In addition, oil coolers are mainly found in racing apps, and honestly, for a daily driven car, I don't see the need for it.

and to be fair to the CVT, it put out at high speeds, not great on the low-end torque, but gives good mid-range and high-end torque.

actually, I will give CVT it's kudos......CVT optimises the power band better than any normal auto/manual tranny. So in theory, if you lined up an auto car, and a CVT version (identical engine etc), the CVT could techincally outrun it. However, the CVT's aren't known to be "very strong" either.

Postby **Dave** » January 23rd, 2007, 7:41 am

don't install the stock in series with the aftermkt, u would be defeating the purpose of the aftermkt unit

if the cvt is gonna be abused and thus its life would greatly reduced, the cooler would extent in that respect, other than that, just an insurance measure really

venum · Postby **venum** » March 2nd, 2007, 6:59 pm

Dave wrote:don't install the stock in series with the aftermkt, u would be defeating the purpose of the aftermkt unit

what do you suggest, bypass the stock completely?

I was planning to put the aftermarket in series with the stock, fluid would have entered the aftermarket after the stock.

open to suggestions

planning on doing this install next week

CVT fluid need to change, so I plan to drop in the aftermarket tranny cooler one time

expecting bout 1/2 -1 quart fluid extra

Postby **Dave** » March 5th, 2007, 8:16 am

yes, bypass altogether
it would be getting transferred heat from the rad and also sometimes when they fail, the rad water contaminates the tranny and vise versa

fras · Postby **fras** » March 5th, 2007, 10:03 am

venum Where u got the tranny cooler and at what price? You have any specs on it?

venum · Postby **venum** » March 5th, 2007, 9:18 pm

^^^ my mech said he had one that I could use

I haven't seen it and dunno the price yet

venum · Postby **venum** » April 10th, 2007, 6:02 pm

for ronsin1

Marct · Postby **Marct** » April 10th, 2007, 6:28 pm

did you install it? what benefits so far?

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » April 10th, 2007, 10:57 pm

venum is there a pump in the CVT to push the fluid through the cooler?? and if possible, do you have a pic of your stock tranny cooler?

do the Honda CVTs have a fluid cooler? anyone? i'm interested in this upgrade.

thanks

ronsin1 · Postby **ronsin1** » April 11th, 2007, 6:04 am

Thanks Venum will update when I install the cooler

Postby **Dave** » April 11th, 2007, 8:09 am

all trannys have a pump to circulate fluid through the tranny
and yes all trannys have a cooler built in the rad or an independant unit

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » April 11th, 2007, 3:35 pm

Dave wrote:all trannys have a pump to circulate fluid through the tranny
and yes all trannys have a cooler built in the rad or an independant unit

never knew that.. thanks

venum · Postby **venum** » April 11th, 2007, 5:42 pm

Marct wrote:did you install it? what benefits so far?

not yet

the car going tommorow

will post pics

cinco · Postby **cinco** » April 11th, 2007, 8:43 pm

if you look on the bottom of your stock radiator in most cars there are two hard steel lines that run to your tranny its really inefficient though an external cooler always helps

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » April 13th, 2007, 2:19 pm

after installing the transmission cooler (as in the pic below), would there be a need to add a fan for additional cooling during extremely hot conditions? e.g. mid day sun in heavy slow moving traffic.. and could that fan be wired to come on at a certain temperature, such as 70degC. (like how the temperature switch for the radiator fan works)

today i noticed that my tranny was making a quick loudish creeking sound when pulling off from a stop. i had just changed the fluid. i'm thinking it's the high ambient temp, mixed with slow driving in traffic causing this and it doesn't happen when the tranny is cool...

venum · Postby **venum** » April 13th, 2007, 8:55 pm

Here are the pictures as promised:

BEFORE:

AFTER:

I know you all will ask about the dented fins - I plan to straighten them out this weekend.

it got those during the installation. The fins are very easily bent and easily straightened.

CO$T:

Oil Cooler: $500.00

Installation: $200.00

Easy to install in the CS Lancer because the grill is attached to the bonnet and is not in the way during installation

I changed my transmission oil today one time - 5 3/4 quarts of fluid in total.

without the oil cooler teh car takes ~ 5 1/4 quarts

Fluid used Mitsubishi SPIII Transmission fluid - $65.00 per quart

the stock oil cooler was abandoned, but left in the original position (under teh radiator)

I have to seal off the tubes from this cooler so that dust and dirt don't get in there

any suggestion for this?

krack korn · Postby **krack korn** » April 14th, 2007, 8:01 am

To seal off the old cooler tubes u can use the caps that come on some amplifiers (and other audio equipment) to protect the female RCA jacks. A similar cap is used on ST fibre optic connectors at well.

If u don't have that just use electrical tape.

Another trick is to use a cut piece of hose and fill one end with a bit of silicone and put the other end over the pipe.

That cooler can be got for $400 - $350 new with hose, and mounting hardware in Debe by Kaimraj but other ppl have it too for about the same.

For $200 there is no excuse for denting your fins, I see he used tyraps to mount the cooler to ur condenser, the mounting kit comes with some nice metal brackets, it could have been mounted to the radiator pannel a lot more professionally using the existing bolts by the headlight, bonnet lock etc.

When mounted like that there is supposed to be some foam pads between the cooler and the condensed to prevent chaffing, or else eventually it will rub trough your condensor cores and pfsst no more AC, did he install it as such I can't see that detail from the pic.

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » April 14th, 2007, 10:04 am

krack korn wrote:I see he used tyraps to mount the cooler to ur condenser, the mounting kit comes with some nice metal brackets, it could have been mounted to the radiator pannel a lot more professionally using the existing bolts by the headlight, bonnet lock etc.

When mounted like that there is supposed to be some foam pads between the cooler and the condensed to prevent chaffing, or else eventually it will rub trough your condensor cores and pfsst no more AC, did he install it as such I can't see that detail from the pic.

good point there... you should get that checked venum.

my only concern with this upgrade is that, how can we be sure that it is more effective that the stock cooling system? because the stock system was fan cooled versus this which isn't...

a transmission temperature gauge would have really came in handy in this mod...

teichou · Postby **teichou** » April 14th, 2007, 12:15 pm

how does it work and where did you buy your CVT fluid

krack korn · Postby **krack korn** » April 14th, 2007, 2:43 pm

because the stock system was fan cooled versus this which isn't...

The air flow would be thru this new cooler thru the condenser thru the radiator and out the back of the fan, when the fan is running.

So its still fan cooled.

What u have to look out for is if there is air flow when driving at moderate to high speeds when the fan wouldn't ordinarily come on.

U have to look at placement of this item carefully in terms of your grilles or where there are air dams in ur bumpers to get air flow over as much area as possible, looking at the pics it would seem the bumper is obstructing about 50% of the cooler area but there is a grille down below and due to the angle of the pic I may be mistaken.

ronsin1 · Postby **ronsin1** » April 14th, 2007, 7:16 pm

Another trick is to use a cut piece of hose and fill one end with a bit of silicone and put the other end over the pipe.

why not cut the hose long enough and connect it to the two ends of the stock cooler!

By the way I had the privilage of seeing it today it was a neat install.

When mounted like that there is supposed to be some foam pads between the cooler and the condensed to prevent chaffing, or else eventually it will rub trough your condensor cores and pfsst no more AC, did he install it as such I can't see that detail from the pic.

good point here did not realize that.

Will be doing my install next staurday.

Venum When I have it install I pass for you to see it and I post the pics for the other Tuners!

venum · Postby **venum** » April 14th, 2007, 7:49 pm

krack korn wrote:A similar cap is used on ST fibre optic connectors at well.

I had the same thought earlier today. I have those things thrown all over the place. Need to find a couple.

krack korn wrote:That cooler can be got for $400 - $350 new with hose, and mounting hardware in Debe by Kaimraj but other ppl have it too for about the same.

The extra price paid is not a problem to me, since lately I have no time to go hunting for anything. The extra convenience of getting it was worth teh extra $$$

krack korn wrote:For $200 there is no excuse for denting your fins, I see he used tyraps to mount the cooler to ur condenser, the mounting kit comes with some nice metal brackets, it could have been mounted to the radiator pannel a lot more professionally using the existing bolts by the headlight, bonnet lock etc.

not really a problem, I do not think that this cooler came with much mounting parts. But your points are noted

krack korn wrote:When mounted like that there is supposed to be some foam pads between the cooler and the condensed to prevent chaffing, or else eventually it will rub trough your condensor cores and pfsst no more AC, did he install it as such I can't see that detail from the pic.

I will check on this

krack korn wrote: U have to look at placement of this item carefully in terms of your grilles or where there are air dams in ur bumpers to get air flow over as much area as possible, looking at the pics it would seem the bumper is obstructing about 50% of the cooler area but there is a grille down below and due to the angle of the pic I may be mistaken.

nah,

there is a lot of air flow around the oil cooler, the grill above and below the bumper provide for this. the bumper doesn't block out that much of the airflow, that is why he mounted it that way

ronsin1 wrote:why not cut the hose long enough and connect it to the two ends of the stock cooler!

thaz a good idea :!:

yeah, bring the CS2 when yuh get it installed

it's a small world

ronsin1 · Postby **ronsin1** » April 15th, 2007, 7:58 am

The pics really do not do justice to the install and the dents are not that bad.

Venum you remember I told you that there is a tool to strighten the fins what I was thinking is that the fins are not that damaged and may be a medium teeth come could help. Just a thought!

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » April 15th, 2007, 9:09 am

ronsin1 wrote:
Another trick is to use a cut piece of hose and fill one end with a bit of silicone and put the other end over the pipe.

why not cut the hose long enough and connect it to the two ends of the stock cooler!

i laugh when i read that yes.. good idea

i guess i'll be the next to try this mod... great thread!