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Loud Noise Upon Starting

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azlan
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Loud Noise Upon Starting

Postby azlan » October 29th, 2009, 9:38 am

Yo Tuners,

I just bought a PCK Toyota Fielder (2005/4 MODEL?) It seemed like a good buy and I was hearing a loud noise upon starting like a grating noise for about 1 sec and then it goes away. It only happens on mornings.

I carried it by the mechanic to realize that the oil was never changed and the milage was 50 000km. The engine had alot of slush in it. The mechanic said that the noise was due to the sludge and may be affecting the timing chain or belt or something so....

I changed the oil and was advised to change the oil every month and do a engine flush to get the sludge out.... Can you guys let me know your thoughts on this please.

I really appreciate any feedback....

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Postby GEAR_HEAD » October 29th, 2009, 9:58 am

hmmm..sounds like an engine flush may be best....

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Postby richie2428 » October 29th, 2009, 10:05 am

had a problem like that and it was the flex plate

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Postby Goolie » October 29th, 2009, 10:56 am

your oil lost all its viscosity... the sludge will prevent it from flowing freely to the various engine parts hence parts such as bearings piston rings will lack lubrication.. it's likely that the knock u hearing is the crankshaft bearings.. probably they scorched.. best thing is change your oil, maybe remove the oil crankcase, clean thoroughly and replace it.... hope u dint damage the engine though.. :wink:

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Re: Loud Noise Upon Starting

Postby VexXx Dogg » October 29th, 2009, 11:04 am

azlan wrote:Yo Tuners,

I just bought a PCK Toyota Fielder (2005/4 MODEL?) It seemed like a good buy and I was hearing a loud noise upon starting like a grating noise for about 1 sec and then it goes away. It only happens on mornings.

I carried it by the mechanic to realize that the oil was never changed and the milage was 50 000km. The engine had alot of slush in it. The mechanic said that the noise was due to the sludge and may be affecting the timing chain or belt or something so....

I changed the oil and was advised to change the oil every month and do a engine flush to get the sludge out.... Can you guys let me know your thoughts on this please.

I really appreciate any feedback....


i think you better off spending money ONCE to repair this properly.
Since this engine was in piss poor shape, a rebuild may be in order.
only when they open the motor then he can determine the extent of the damage.
It wont be cheap, but you will be able to sleep better and have a reliable engine without major maintenacne for the next 100,000 KM or so.

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Postby 3stagevtec » October 29th, 2009, 12:59 pm

i have seen this before.. a pardner from work had bought a hyundai accent for under $20k.. previous owners told him they hardly drove the car, so never bothered to change oil.. :shock:

when i pulled out the dip stick, the old oil looked like grease! and i was hearing all kinds of odd mechanical noises from the engine.. really sad..

azlan, you're certainly going to have damage on that engine...

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Re

Postby azlan » October 29th, 2009, 2:23 pm

Does anyone advise me to do the engine flush? My mechanic says that this is the way to go but I was researching it on the net and there are some cons. What are my othert options and what price will the work xost me?

I am really strapped for cash at the moment but this scene real bothering me. I spent all my money on the car and thought I was buying a reliable car with no headache.

Do you guys think that the engine will come back good soon?

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Postby azlan » October 29th, 2009, 2:27 pm

How to safely get the sludge out?

Flush? and change oil regularly?

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Postby 3stagevtec » October 29th, 2009, 2:55 pm

Oil Flush Info Here

see if the flush + new oil helps with the grating noise.. i'd suggest running the flush for the full recommended time because of the extent of sludge / slop you have..

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Postby Hook » October 29th, 2009, 2:59 pm

^^^ great link!

the only real con to doing an engine flush is if the engine's in REALLY REALLY poor shape and the sludge is what's holding it together and keeping it from leaking out the wazoo...the flush will get all that stuff out and THEN you'll start missing oil regularly (you'll find it on your driveway tho lol)
but really, once it's done properly, you've nothing to fear

just follow the instructions on the flush that you're using to a T...if it says idle for 5mins, DO NOT exceed that time or else you'll be doing more harm than good..remember the flush is stripping sludge and deposits as well as whatever oil coating your internals have..it's not discerning

And DO NOT rev the engine with the flush in there! just let it sit and idle for the alotted time.

For best results, add flush when the engine is at normal operating temperature. most flushes reccommend this anyway, so that the sludge is all warm and gooey and ready for flushing, and also so that the high idle on warm-up doesn't rev the engine (if your idle speed is say 800rpm at normal operating temperature, u REALLY don't want an 1100rpm cold idle interfering with the process)

When you're done, fill with the "flushing oil" and tumble a few times (DO NOT START THE ENGINE WITH THAT VERY THIN OIL IN THERE...remove the "Ignition" fuse to prevent this)
Then drain the flushing oil, put in a new filter and fill with your oil of choice and follow up with a quick change interval at say 500km.

I really hope the problem isn't as bad as they say..hopefully it's just a minor starvation problem to the head that a single flush will fix.

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Postby azlan » October 29th, 2009, 4:40 pm

Everyone thanks a million!!!!!

Hook and 3stagevtech..... Much respect is due to you guys for the constant help.

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Postby kidzz » October 29th, 2009, 6:10 pm

azlan wrote:How to safely get the sludge out?

Flush? and change oil regularly?


what you can do is get it cleaned and then try to you synthetic oil which should take care of the sludge while giving you great mileage and protection

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Postby cinco » October 29th, 2009, 10:33 pm

good luck I see you are covered
try not to drive the car until you get this done and if you do keep the revs low.

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Postby 3stagevtec » October 29th, 2009, 10:37 pm

cinco wrote:good luck I see you are covered
try not to drive the car until you get this done and if you do keep the revs low.


safer to keep it at zero!

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Postby Goolie » October 30th, 2009, 12:11 am

3stagevtec wrote:
safer to keep it at zero!
:lol: hope u get through with this soon an u back up and running without damage

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Postby cinco » October 30th, 2009, 1:45 am

3stagevtec wrote:
cinco wrote:good luck I see you are covered
try not to drive the car until you get this done and if you do keep the revs low.


safer to keep it at zero!

true
start saving up for a rebuild it sounds inevitable

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Re

Postby azlan » October 30th, 2009, 2:52 pm

Thanks alot peeps,

So far all was done was the old oil was drained and changed to synthetic oil. The noise is still there sometimes but this morning when I started I did not hear the noise. But I heard it at lunch time.........

I am going to use the amsoil engine flush and going to try to do it myself. The mechanic told me to wait unitl the end of November and come to do it since I just changed the oil but I not feeling to wait so long.

I try to keep the revs low. I will keep you guys posted for sure.

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Postby cinco » October 30th, 2009, 6:47 pm

let your mechanic drop your oil pan and see the condition of it the oil pump may have sludge around it clean out the oil pan and see if it helps
like i said prepare for the worst and start saving for a rebuild

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Postby brams112 » October 30th, 2009, 9:40 pm

bearings,,,,,,,,,,,,sounds like,,lesson 101 when lookig for a good car start it frist,then after switching off pull dip stick and check condition of oil,check suspension,under car inspection and so on,,,plenty con men out here these days :idea:

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Re

Postby azlan » October 30th, 2009, 11:57 pm

Yo peeps,

Thanx 4 all d support. Allyuh real know allyuh stuff!!!!

I did alot of reading about engine flushes and there is some risk involved. I kinda scared to take any risks right now as I wont have money for any major works if a line gets clogged or something.

I getting a mechanic called Tony from Cunupia to remove the tappit cover, crank case and strainer and clean them thouroughly.

Do you think that would sove the problem of sludge and avoid me from having to flush the engine?

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Postby Hook » October 31st, 2009, 2:27 am

naw meng....sludge can form anywhere the oil goes....anywhere!

do the flush and then have the mechanic do his thing with the sump pan and strainer etc. (preferably one right after the other) and see where u go from there

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Postby cinco » October 31st, 2009, 4:22 am

clean as much as you can but sludge is a terminal issue on an engine
once oil loses its viscosity you are looking at destroyed main bearings, especially when it breaks down to sludge

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Postby azlan » November 5th, 2009, 12:16 pm

Yo Tuners,

The Mechanic took out the tappit cover, removed the crakcase and strainer and cleaned it. He said I am sludge free now!!!!! Yeah!!!!!!

He said it had sludge that was clogging a line and he removed it so that I should have good oil pressue and flow now.

The loud noise started to fade. I dont really hear it any more only on occassions. I hope it goes away soon.....

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Postby Goolie » November 5th, 2009, 3:37 pm

make sure u change your oil on time now :mrgreen: .. even give it an earlier change to remove any remaining sludge in the system.

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Postby 3stagevtec » November 5th, 2009, 5:26 pm

azlan wrote:Yo Tuners,

The Mechanic took out the tappit cover, removed the crakcase and strainer and cleaned it. He said I am sludge free now!!!!! Yeah!!!!!!

He said it had sludge that was clogging a line and he removed it so that I should have good oil pressue and flow now.

The loud noise started to fade. I dont really hear it any more only on occassions. I hope it goes away soon.....


i'd still recommend doing the flush to get out sludge your mechanic couldn't reach from deep inside your engine.. since all the heavy stuff is out, you can run the flush for less than the recommended time, to help ease your worries..

also, what grade oil are you using?

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Postby cinco » November 5th, 2009, 6:40 pm

sounds good man
still suggest the flush as said above. the little line he cleaned was most probably the oil pump lines

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azlan
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Re

Postby azlan » November 6th, 2009, 12:10 pm

Thanks again....

I bought GASTROL GTX I think it was 10W-30? I am going to change my oil and filter in about 3000kms.

The noise still kinda there but not as bad or often. You think it will go away eventually as the engine should be properly lubricated now as most of the sludge has been removed?

That noise worries me still..... lol.....

The mechanic said he did not hear the noise since he did the job but it only happens on mornings when I first start and sometimes if I start again like lunch time I will hear it too. But not as loud!!!!

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Postby Swifted » November 6th, 2009, 12:47 pm

after a good night of sitting unused, it is going to make the noise loudest on cold start-up. that for sure is bearings :(

and, because you've got some excess clearance now, your oil is going to need oil changes more frequently! nurse it till you can rebuild.

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azlan
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Re:

Postby azlan » November 6th, 2009, 2:47 pm

Yo Yo,

So what exactly do you mean when the bearings causing this noise? Is this a major problem or nothing to really worry about? The mechaninc said it may be the timing chain was not being lubricated properly but he said now that the sludge is out it should be fine?

The noise has eased alot.... but is still there. Can you guys explain how to detect what it is properly???

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Postby Swifted » November 6th, 2009, 6:16 pm

have the oil pressure checked at idle and at 4000rpm, compare your results with what is recommended in the Service Manual. use a proper mechanical type pressure gauge that is known to be accurate.

Noise associated with engine bearings is best described as; excess clearance (worn babbitt) allowing the crank/rods to 'rattle' when the engine is first started right before the oil can get in and fill the clearance.

great info: Engine Knock? Low Oil Pressure? How To Diagnose Needed Repairs

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