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T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

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supernedd
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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby supernedd » January 8th, 2019, 9:40 am

carluva wrote:... and all of this good discussion to what end? Instead of complaining about it on trinituner, can't the effort be spent to lobby towards better value for dollar and more competition?

Once there is competition, prices will be better. Before this govt changed the import requirements for RORO vehicles, I could remember when RORO was offering options to ppl and vehicle prices were competitive. The cars selling now for 200k and up could have been easily snapped up for 120k new, if one compares apples back then to what the apples are now.

Now you getting toots for 300k plus. All because the market is not competitive. New car dealers almost have a monopoly in some segments.

But as with everything else in this society we complain and whine and antagonise the wrong ppl instead of targeting what matters.

If van buyers decide that they not buying ranger, hilux or navarra, what will happen? Prices will fall.

If ppl stop running down the sportage and the tuscon, prices will fall. So instead of a possible 40% profit, dealers will settle for a 20% profit and everyone happy.

We just not competitive and it doh help that these tax structures are so aimed to benefit businesses and corporations, while screwing the working class.
I feel is more like 100% profit them making yes. Lol

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 9:44 am

i feel you right

These dealers will never say the engine of the CRV is smaller now so we will drop the price!

They will say the suckers bought the last shipment in record time so we can afford to raise the price again

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby cryotec » January 8th, 2019, 10:46 am

Updated breakdown to address incorrect tax rates and use a more reasonable shipment rate. Based on these calculations, every $1 increase in the cost of vehicle, or CIF for that matter, yields the increase of $1.4 to the final price.

Image

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby SLVR1 » January 8th, 2019, 10:49 am

Wow you have been busy.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 8th, 2019, 10:52 am

cryotec wrote:Updated breakdown to address incorrect tax rates and use a more reasonable shipment rate. Based on these calculations, every $1 increase in the cost of vehicle, or CIF for that matter, yields the increase of $1.4 to the final price.

Image


Interesting work but all those prices are for LHD vehicles that possibly also benefit from being built in North America and thus avoid certain taxes. Would be even more interesting if RHD vehicles are used from other markets like UK or even Japan. Thanks for the good work so far.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 8th, 2019, 10:54 am

SLVR1 wrote:Wow you have been busy.


But SLVR1, you should have been well aware of this. After all, you do work for or benefit from a dealership.

:wink: :P

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 8th, 2019, 10:55 am

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:
cryotec wrote:Updated breakdown to address incorrect tax rates and use a more reasonable shipment rate. Based on these calculations, every $1 increase in the cost of vehicle, or CIF for that matter, yields the increase of $1.4 to the final price.

Image


Interesting work but all those prices are for LHD vehicles that possibly also benefit from being built in North America and thus avoid certain taxes. Would be even more interesting if RHD vehicles are used from other markets like UK or even Japan. Thanks for the good work so far.


was gonna say the same thing....

Do the different costs represent different model specs? Cause I notice the local price remains constant at 310k...
Last edited by carluva on January 8th, 2019, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby SLVR1 » January 8th, 2019, 10:56 am

carluva wrote:
SLVR1 wrote:Wow you have been busy.


But SLVR1, you should have been well aware of this. After all, you do work for or benefit from a dealership.

:wink: :P


LOL. You go ahead.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby SLVR1 » January 8th, 2019, 10:59 am

carluva wrote:
Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:
cryotec wrote:Updated breakdown to address incorrect tax rates and use a more reasonable shipment rate. Based on these calculations, every $1 increase in the cost of vehicle, or CIF for that matter, yields the increase of $1.4 to the final price.

Image


Interesting work but all those prices are for LHD vehicles that possibly also benefit from being built in North America and thus avoid certain taxes. Would be even more interesting if RHD vehicles are used from other markets like UK or even Japan. Thanks for the good work so far.


was gonna say the same thing....

Do the different costs represent different model specs? Cause I notice the local price remains constant at 310k...


The base model here in TT is what he used that goes for $310000 to compare with.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby cryotec » January 8th, 2019, 11:19 am

Included UK and JP. Prices sourced from official Honda website for each respective country in the case of UK https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v/overview.html#configurator/hub/summary?isCarConfigurator=true&grade=S&engine=150-M6-2WD&colour=BKR-513&accessories=17-alloy-wheel and JP https://www.honda.co.jp/CR-V/webcatalog/type/gasoline/, from SLRV1 for US and telfer for Canada. Uk has a 5 year servicing offer for 600 pounds :O.

I included other prices for USA/Canada for a quick view on how different prices will affect the final outcome, hence, I did not change the retail price of 310k.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 11:59 am

you seen to be using the on road price in other countries which will include vat and other taxes .

you are then adding our taxes

you should be using the manufacturers price to the dealers which is not know to us

your calculations will be way off

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2019, 12:41 pm

cryotec wrote:Included UK and JP. Prices sourced from official Honda website for each respective country in the case of UK https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v/overview.html#configurator/hub/summary?isCarConfigurator=true&grade=S&engine=150-M6-2WD&colour=BKR-513&accessories=17-alloy-wheel and JP https://www.honda.co.jp/CR-V/webcatalog/type/gasoline/, from SLRV1 for US and telfer for Canada. Uk has a 5 year servicing offer for 600 pounds :O.

I included other prices for USA/Canada for a quick view on how different prices will affect the final outcome, hence, I did not change the retail price of 310k.

Image

What you are calling "profit margin" is actually "overhead and profit margin".

What proportion of that amount is profit and what is overhead?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby slacker_83 » January 9th, 2019, 9:05 pm

Rell price dicussion here.... New 2WD Leather CRV could cost the dealership north of 23000. So do allyuh maths (MVT,Duties, then VAT on that total) and you could calculate the mark up. That mark up then would include overheads and profit. I could give the exact figure of the mark up but then the discussion would stop lol... ohh and the 1% might shut down my account :/

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 9th, 2019, 9:13 pm

slacker_83 wrote:Rell price dicussion here.... New 2WD Leather CRV could cost the dealership north of 23000. So do allyuh maths (MVT,Duties, then VAT on that total) and you could calculate the mark up. That mark up then would include overheads and profit. I could give the exact figure of the mark up but then the discussion would stop lol... ohh and the 1% might shut down my account :/


No one knows who you are. If you have info post up. No one gonna shut down your account. Trinidad is not a real place.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby agent007 » January 10th, 2019, 8:31 am

Hey guys, it appears I clearly missed out a lot in the recent discussions in here. May I with respect point out that it is clear most of you all dont have a clue on how local dealerships operate and with good reason because many of their pricing practices and strategies are not public knowledge.
There are 6 authorized dealership groups in TT and all I can tell you guys without ruffling any feathers is this: there is a crossover vehicle that was mentioned here quite recently where whether you want to believe it or not, because frankly I am not asking you to believe me and I dont care if you do or dont, but coming back to this crossover vehicle, the dealer makes approximately $100k in profit per sale. There is another dealership that sells a 4x4 SUV and the markup is approx. $300k. Take it for what it's worth.
I would suggest going forward though, instead of trying to discuss information that you have no idea about and populating this thread with typical trini banter, how many of you all actually purchased a new vehicle and tried sharing constructive information for those who actually rely on forums like this to make a wise purchasing decision?
Clearly most of you all in here are in the upper echelons of society so please, Im asking kindly to really share your purchasing stories with fellow users, tell us how was your experience, the discounts you got, what led you to the vehicle and perhaps share some of your parts and service costs with us. I have done so a few times on different vehicles and I challenge you all to do same. Let's stop trying to one-up each other (I surely get it, you all are rich, informed and connected) and really help each other and leave the trolls to disappear.
Thanks tuners.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby h@+eR » January 10th, 2019, 12:53 pm

Gd day can anyone tell me if they have information about the 2019 Honda city and if we will be getting it in Trinidad and when.... Plz.... Much appreciated.....

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby supernedd » January 10th, 2019, 9:11 pm

We could go back n forth bout dealership robbery prices .. and all u still going to buy it .. I've been scrolling thru threads as far back as 2009 .. I've seen people comment.. yea this new van too expensive.. i not buying. 1year later.. everyone buy n complaining.. then a upgrade out n more expensive. They buy again.. one day ..we really have to come together n make a stand .. bet all them businessmen bawl n beg

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 10th, 2019, 9:13 pm

supernedd wrote:We could go back n forth bout dealership robbery prices .. and all u still going to buy it .. I've been scrolling thru threads as far back as 2009 .. I've seen people comment.. yea this new van too expensive.. i not buying. 1year later.. everyone buy n complaining.. then a upgrade out n more expensive. They buy again.. one day ..we really have to come together n make a stand .. bet all them businessmen bawl n beg


I did my part. Brought in used vehicle. 423k for a Miata? Crazy.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby supernedd » January 10th, 2019, 9:13 pm

agent007 wrote:Hey guys, it appears I clearly missed out a lot in the recent discussions in here. May I with respect point out that it is clear most of you all dont have a clue on how local dealerships operate and with good reason because many of their pricing practices and strategies are not public knowledge.
There are 6 authorized dealership groups in TT and all I can tell you guys without ruffling any feathers is this: there is a crossover vehicle that was mentioned here quite recently where whether you want to believe it or not, because frankly I am not asking you to believe me and I dont care if you do or dont, but coming back to this crossover vehicle, the dealer makes approximately $100k in profit per sale. There is another dealership that sells a 4x4 SUV and the markup is approx. $300k. Take it for what it's worth.
I would suggest going forward though, instead of trying to discuss information that you have no idea about and populating this thread with typical trini banter, how many of you all actually purchased a new vehicle and tried sharing constructive information for those who actually rely on forums like this to make a wise purchasing decision?
Clearly most of you all in here are in the upper echelons of society so please, Im asking kindly to really share your purchasing stories with fellow users, tell us how was your experience, the discounts you got, what led you to the vehicle and perhaps share some of your parts and service costs with us. I have done so a few times on different vehicles and I challenge you all to do same. Let's stop trying to one-up each other (I surely get it, you all are rich, informed and connected) and really help each other and leave the trolls to disappear.
Thanks tuners.
Well said ... p.s. .. if all u know all u vehicle have fault n giving headache.. warn us right away... don't wait for us to buy one n ask

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby supernedd » January 10th, 2019, 9:15 pm

Allergic2BunnyEars wrote:
supernedd wrote:We could go back n forth bout dealership robbery prices .. and all u still going to buy it .. I've been scrolling thru threads as far back as 2009 .. I've seen people comment.. yea this new van too expensive.. i not buying. 1year later.. everyone buy n complaining.. then a upgrade out n more expensive. They buy again.. one day ..we really have to come together n make a stand .. bet all them businessmen bawl n beg


I did my part. Brought in used vehicle. 423k for a Miata? Crazy.
U see when the vehicle start costing more.than land... i better find a suitcase of money...to pay for it... lol

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 10th, 2019, 9:48 pm

agent007 wrote:Hey guys, it appears I clearly missed out a lot in the recent discussions in here. May I with respect point out that it is clear most of you all dont have a clue on how local dealerships operate and with good reason because many of their pricing practices and strategies are not public knowledge.
There are 6 authorized dealership groups in TT and all I can tell you guys without ruffling any feathers is this: there is a crossover vehicle that was mentioned here quite recently where whether you want to believe it or not, because frankly I am not asking you to believe me and I dont care if you do or dont, but coming back to this crossover vehicle, the dealer makes approximately $100k in profit per sale. There is another dealership that sells a 4x4 SUV and the markup is approx. $300k. Take it for what it's worth.
I would suggest going forward though, instead of trying to discuss information that you have no idea about and populating this thread with typical trini banter, how many of you all actually purchased a new vehicle and tried sharing constructive information for those who actually rely on forums like this to make a wise purchasing decision?
Clearly most of you all in here are in the upper echelons of society so please, Im asking kindly to really share your purchasing stories with fellow users, tell us how was your experience, the discounts you got, what led you to the vehicle and perhaps share some of your parts and service costs with us. I have done so a few times on different vehicles and I challenge you all to do same. Let's stop trying to one-up each other (I surely get it, you all are rich, informed and connected) and really help each other and leave the trolls to disappear.
Thanks tuners.


Well said OP, but not to derail and since this thread is also to discuss prices, to your knowledge is there anything that can be done to reduce this ridiculous profit and make vehicle prices more competitive and affordable?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 10th, 2019, 9:49 pm

carluva wrote:
agent007 wrote:Hey guys, it appears I clearly missed out a lot in the recent discussions in here. May I with respect point out that it is clear most of you all dont have a clue on how local dealerships operate and with good reason because many of their pricing practices and strategies are not public knowledge.
There are 6 authorized dealership groups in TT and all I can tell you guys without ruffling any feathers is this: there is a crossover vehicle that was mentioned here quite recently where whether you want to believe it or not, because frankly I am not asking you to believe me and I dont care if you do or dont, but coming back to this crossover vehicle, the dealer makes approximately $100k in profit per sale. There is another dealership that sells a 4x4 SUV and the markup is approx. $300k. Take it for what it's worth.
I would suggest going forward though, instead of trying to discuss information that you have no idea about and populating this thread with typical trini banter, how many of you all actually purchased a new vehicle and tried sharing constructive information for those who actually rely on forums like this to make a wise purchasing decision?
Clearly most of you all in here are in the upper echelons of society so please, Im asking kindly to really share your purchasing stories with fellow users, tell us how was your experience, the discounts you got, what led you to the vehicle and perhaps share some of your parts and service costs with us. I have done so a few times on different vehicles and I challenge you all to do same. Let's stop trying to one-up each other (I surely get it, you all are rich, informed and connected) and really help each other and leave the trolls to disappear.
Thanks tuners.


Well said OP, but not to derail and since this thread is also to discuss prices, to your knowledge is there anything that can be done to reduce this ridiculous profit and make vehicle prices more competitive and affordable?


Yeah. Don’t buy.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 10th, 2019, 9:58 pm

Aside from that cause we all know that you didnt and i wont, but as supernedd said, others will.

No regulations or laws that can work in consumers' favour?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 10th, 2019, 10:00 pm

carluva wrote:Aside from that cause we all know that you didnt and i wont, but as supernedd said, others will.

No regulations or laws that can work in consumers' favour?


Anti capitalist laws? The dealers not doing anything wrong. If people willing to buy let them.

We could do with lemon laws and warranty laws in favor of the consumer.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 10th, 2019, 10:02 pm

A good investigative journalist report could go a long way

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby agent007 » January 11th, 2019, 2:13 am

Each of the 6 dealership groups in this country make healthy profit margins on the sales of their vehicles. Is it attributed solely on market forces or something more strategic than that?

Let's take a look at an example:
A local dealership (Co. D) sells vehicles from an automobile manufacturer known as (Co. A). Co. A has an agreement with Co. D where a minimum of X amount of vehicles are to be sold in a fiscal year. Anything beyond that would allow Co. D to receive further incentives from Co. A to exceed its targets.

The above thus gives rise to incentives by Co. D to price their vehicles effectively so that there would be sufficient demand to deplete inventory. Co. D also would like to do better in the new fiscal year because they promised their shareholders through forecasting that shareholder value would increase. The Co. D can in this scenario meet revenue targets and subsequent profit targets after expenses are deducted. Profit is therefore attributed to the shareholders and the balance reinvested into Co. D.

Market forces suggest that once there is a demand, there would be supply. When supply is short but demand remains, the price of product increases. If supply remains but demand slows, then prices are reduced. But is this being practiced at all times? Consider the below:

The reality is, dealers like Co. D would like year over year growth like any company because its a business not a charity. Why go through the hassle to create and sustain marketing strategies which incurs a cost to Co. D and simply adds to overheads when you can renegotiate with the auto manufacturer ie. Co. A to reduce supply but yet make your growth targets forecasted to shareholders through the board of directors when you can sell 100 compact crossovers for an approximate transaction price of $350k per unit to derive $35M in revenue for this particular crossover thus giving rise to a profit of $10M (at 28.6%) to Co. D. The $25M went into CIF, Duty, MVT, VAT, sales commission, insurance, registration, fuel, plates, wash boy cost and general PDI costs etc.

As opposed to selling 200 of those same crossovers which requires more forex at an avg transaction price of $300k per unit (because Co. D feeling sorry for the population and they want to make the vehicle more affordable) thus as a result, creating $60M in revenue but to drive a profit of $10M (at 16.7%) to Co. D. It means $50M went into the areas as identified above which Co. D doesnt care about.

Is the above example market forces?

All that fighting up and marketing and sourcing of forex to sell 200 of the same vehicle at a lower margin thus making it more affordable only to make the same profit by simply selling half the amount and yet meet shareholders fiscal expectations? Also, if any auto dealership whose executive management presents strategic planning for growth and does so by sticking 16.7% margins on new vehicle sales in a ppt slide and expect to make it onto the next slide without a halt then everyone from the management end would be highly mistaken.

There are some permutations and combinations of strategies used which is too much to discuss here but I just wanted to share one example so that you may see a POV from a certain angle.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 11th, 2019, 11:11 am

agent007 wrote:
The reality is, dealers like Co. D would like year over year growth like any company because its a business not a charity. Why go through the hassle to create and sustain marketing strategies which incurs a cost to Co. D and simply adds to overheads when you can renegotiate with the auto manufacturer ie. Co. A to reduce supply but yet make your growth targets forecasted to shareholders through the board of directors when you can sell 100 compact crossovers for an approximate transaction price of $350k per unit to derive $35M in revenue for this particular crossover thus giving rise to a profit of $10M (at 28.6%) to Co. D. The $25M went into CIF, Duty, MVT, VAT, sales commission, insurance, registration, fuel, plates, wash boy cost and general PDI costs etc.

As opposed to selling 200 of those same crossovers which requires more forex at an avg transaction price of $300k per unit (because Co. D feeling sorry for the population and they want to make the vehicle more affordable) thus as a result, creating $60M in revenue but to drive a profit of $10M (at 16.7%) to Co. D. It means $50M went into the areas as identified above which Co. D doesnt care about.

Is the above example market forces?



OP, your example essentially summarises how business essentially drives the market as opposed to the market driving the business. And your example essentially summarises one type of business strategy which is to generate as much profit from the smallest revenue stream. So yes, that example can be considered "market forces' broadly speaking. But this is primarily based on businesses knowing that the "mentality" of the purchasing public is to buy the product at whatever price is thrown at them.

If the public decides that we will not buy your product at the price you are quoting, then businesses will be forced to restrategise because now, the market is "forcing" the business to revisit their pricing mechanism, which can go all the way up the corporate ladder to effect a change in targets and prices.

So, from my perspective, and as I have stated already, John Public will continue to be at the mercy of price gouging by car dealers (who of course will state otherwise as obviously, John Public has no evidence to support the claim).

Simple example: Years ago, I was purchasing a new vehicle. Note that at that time the RORO market was in full swing. My options were a Nissan Tiida, Toyota Corolla, Suzuki Liana and a Ford Focus as all were within the same market segment, price bracket and within my budget. I visited all the dealers (N&M represented Nissan and Suzuki back then) and each salesperson I spoke to was aware that I was looking for another vehicle from another dealer. Believe me when I say, for a couple of weeks, salespersons were nagging me to get the sale. It finally ended up being between the Tiida and the Corolla and in the end I went with the Tiida. Why? because N&M realised that I was not BS-ing and I would go to Toyota with my money. I got a good discount (for that time) and ended up paying about 130 something for a fully loaded Tiida (the model with the sunroof) that was going for over 150 something. Now N&M no doubt made a healthy profit but the discount received was acceptable to me. I doubt very much that this strategy will apply nowadays because simply put, I won't get a discount because why give me the discount when someone else will come along the next day and buy for the non-discounted price.

My layman experience shows, to me, that as a consumer, one can cause a change. However, the market is different now, and the only way that consumers can effect this change is to do it collectively. Alas, this is not the case, because there will always be a member of John Public who will rebel and buy the car.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 11th, 2019, 11:17 am

On a completely different note. Can anyone share experiences on the Toyota 1GD engine in the new Hilux?

I'm not looking to buy but was comparing this engine to the 1KD engine with some colleagues.

Also, is it true that the new diesel engines from TTTL do not come with an EGR system as it has been blanked or omitted based on our diesel quality and lack of emissions requlations, compared to those from the other new Hilux dealers whose vehicles may or may not come with the EGR system (according to the country of purchase)?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » January 11th, 2019, 1:57 pm

Actually the market is in a slump atm so you guys preaching that you can't get discounts probably need to brush up on your negotiating skills.

Perfect time to buy vehicles ... is when our economy is in the toilet and that seems to be right about now.

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