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sharadu2 wrote:That milage for a vezel has to be highway runs only, more specifically no traffic, wishful thinking. I have a vezel about 18months now and city use in and around San Fernando I get 500 Kms on a tank of gas. Highway runs I did 3 times for the week San Fernando to trincity early morning no traffic I got 630 kms. As per recall on issues my chassis number wasn’t on any recall lists and anyone considering buying one should verify using chassis number. Overall it’s a very good vehicle. Very powerful and responsive.very spacious compared to other suv in same category, Tucson,vitara or cx5. Seat folding options in the rear makes it unique for carrying load.
OPERATORJOE wrote:I'm doing some research presently between the Vezel and the suzuki vitara based on them being within the 195,000 to 225,000 (lower spec model) price band ... These are my findings on THE HONDA VEZEL so far;
*The RU1 2wd and RU2 4wd models are the non hybrid models. which are fitted with a regular CVT transmission.
*The RU3-2wd and RU4-4wd models are the hybrid models which come in the 1.6 and 1.8 variants which are fitted with a dual clutch DCT transmission.
*The ru1 and 2 models are those sold in the US and UK markets models.. The ru3 and 4 models are primarily sold mostly in Japan, Sri Lanka etc.
*The HRV RU1 is what is currently being sold at Ansa/diamond motors.
*the VEZEL RU3 2WD is the hybrid model being sold used and new by RORO dealers locally.
ISSUES WITH VEZEL
*There have been numerous recalls of the RU3 HONDA VEZEL due to transmission failure more so in the 2014 to 2016 model years. this issue is due to these models being outfitted with a 7 speed dual clutch DCT transmission similar to those in the Honda FIT hybrids, and is due to a software issue coupled with the apparent harsh effects
of the hot weather climates on the operations of the (dry clutch) system which resulted in transmission error codes showing on dash and sluggishness and seizing of transmissions. Honda had stopped production and eventually resumed.. however they still have not confirmed officially or otherwise if this issue in the newer VEZELS have been rectified.
*The most up to date dealer in the hybrid VEZEL is P&V marketing as I've called them and spoke to the guys there who were able to engage me quite accurately in terms of knowledge of the various models, spec, servicing, etc, however in terms of the issue with the dual clutch transmission, they were only able to say that they 'believe' that the issue was resolved in the 2017 and 2018 models which they currently sell and service as they haven't had any issues with any that were sold yet (however it may be too early to tell on a 2017 purchased vehicle unless the owner is quite an aggressive driver) Also P&V offers a very good warranty on the new hybrid vehicles they sell 3yrs/100km on the vehicle and 5yrs on battery and service is 1200.00 per interval inclusive of average parts and labour
In terms of fuel economy the hybrid VEZEL averages between 780km to 800km on a tank of fuel. Surprisingly however the suzuki vitara which is fitted with a regular 1.6 naturally aspirated engine mated to a 6 speed transmission competes with the hybrid Vezel and gets in the range of 680 to 800 km per tank of super (verified by local vitara owners) which to me is quite surprising/ interesting.
*The battery materials in the newer model VEZEL have been changed ftom nickel based to li-ion resulting in greater efficiency and output and an increase in resistance to the degrading effects of hot weather on the lifespan of a battery.
Besides these issues the VEZEL remains a very appealing vehicle in terms of design, space and interior comfort and practicality however it should be ascertained whether the transmission issue in the newer 2017 /2018 hybrid models have been resolved.
*The availability of parts for the Vezel seems to be plentyful even with the added bonus of sourcing parts from the US, UK etc as Honda enjoys a worldwide presence.. Only issue would be parts specifically intended for use in the conventional model vs hybrid model per export region i.e body parts vs engine parts per specified model. (suzuki pulled out of the US, and there are few to none online suzuki parts dealers you have to depend on the dealer for parts).
*How these issues affect resale value I'm not sure... There are both new and RORO Vezels available as well as new HRV's which is the same vehicle just not a hybrid so it's hard to say. Other guys on the forum may know better. What impact would having a RORO model of the same vehicle have on the resale value on a new model of that vehicle in the local market.
*The current RORO vezels 2014 to 2016 (possibly subject to the DCT DUAL CLUTCH PROBLEM) range between 145 000 to 170,000 depending on model
* BRAND NEW fully loaded Vezels - RU3 2017/ 2018 available at some RORO dealers like Achievor and P&V for example range between 199,000 to 250,000 low to high spec.
*Brand new HRV - RU1 (non hybrid) are available at ANSA/Diamond motors for around 249,000 (base model) upwards to 280,000 full spec.
I however continue my reading as I'm doing comparative research before deciding to take the plunge between the two.
Hope I've been of some help
psychokid wrote:OPERATORJOE wrote:I'm doing some research presently between the Vezel and the suzuki vitara based on them being within the 195,000 to 225,000 (lower spec model) price band ... These are my findings on THE HONDA VEZEL so far;
*The RU1 2wd and RU2 4wd models are the non hybrid models. which are fitted with a regular CVT transmission.
*The RU3-2wd and RU4-4wd models are the hybrid models which come in the 1.6 and 1.8 variants which are fitted with a dual clutch DCT transmission.
*The ru1 and 2 models are those sold in the US and UK markets models.. The ru3 and 4 models are primarily sold mostly in Japan, Sri Lanka etc.
*The HRV RU1 is what is currently being sold at Ansa/diamond motors.
*the VEZEL RU3 2WD is the hybrid model being sold used and new by RORO dealers locally.
ISSUES WITH VEZEL
*There have been numerous recalls of the RU3 HONDA VEZEL due to transmission failure more so in the 2014 to 2016 model years. this issue is due to these models being outfitted with a 7 speed dual clutch DCT transmission similar to those in the Honda FIT hybrids, and is due to a software issue coupled with the apparent harsh effects
of the hot weather climates on the operations of the (dry clutch) system which resulted in transmission error codes showing on dash and sluggishness and seizing of transmissions. Honda had stopped production and eventually resumed.. however they still have not confirmed officially or otherwise if this issue in the newer VEZELS have been rectified.
*The most up to date dealer in the hybrid VEZEL is P&V marketing as I've called them and spoke to the guys there who were able to engage me quite accurately in terms of knowledge of the various models, spec, servicing, etc, however in terms of the issue with the dual clutch transmission, they were only able to say that they 'believe' that the issue was resolved in the 2017 and 2018 models which they currently sell and service as they haven't had any issues with any that were sold yet (however it may be too early to tell on a 2017 purchased vehicle unless the owner is quite an aggressive driver) Also P&V offers a very good warranty on the new hybrid vehicles they sell 3yrs/100km on the vehicle and 5yrs on battery and service is 1200.00 per interval inclusive of average parts and labour
In terms of fuel economy the hybrid VEZEL averages between 780km to 800km on a tank of fuel. Surprisingly however the suzuki vitara which is fitted with a regular 1.6 naturally aspirated engine mated to a 6 speed transmission competes with the hybrid Vezel and gets in the range of 680 to 800 km per tank of super (verified by local vitara owners) which to me is quite surprising/ interesting.
*The battery materials in the newer model VEZEL have been changed ftom nickel based to li-ion resulting in greater efficiency and output and an increase in resistance to the degrading effects of hot weather on the lifespan of a battery.
Besides these issues the VEZEL remains a very appealing vehicle in terms of design, space and interior comfort and practicality however it should be ascertained whether the transmission issue in the newer 2017 /2018 hybrid models have been resolved.
*The availability of parts for the Vezel seems to be plentyful even with the added bonus of sourcing parts from the US, UK etc as Honda enjoys a worldwide presence.. Only issue would be parts specifically intended for use in the conventional model vs hybrid model per export region i.e body parts vs engine parts per specified model. (suzuki pulled out of the US, and there are few to none online suzuki parts dealers you have to depend on the dealer for parts).
*How these issues affect resale value I'm not sure... There are both new and RORO Vezels available as well as new HRV's which is the same vehicle just not a hybrid so it's hard to say. Other guys on the forum may know better. What impact would having a RORO model of the same vehicle have on the resale value on a new model of that vehicle in the local market.
*The current RORO vezels 2014 to 2016 (possibly subject to the DCT DUAL CLUTCH PROBLEM) range between 145 000 to 170,000 depending on model
* BRAND NEW fully loaded Vezels - RU3 2017/ 2018 available at some RORO dealers like Achievor and P&V for example range between 199,000 to 250,000 low to high spec.
*Brand new HRV - RU1 (non hybrid) are available at ANSA/Diamond motors for around 249,000 (base model) upwards to 280,000 full spec.
I however continue my reading as I'm doing comparative research before deciding to take the plunge between the two.
Hope I've been of some help
And the vitara?
agent007 wrote:Hey guys, I wanted to post up our newest addition to the family but did not get the time to do so until now. Will post more pics soon!
So far the 190hp turbo engine is pulling ok, the CVT is very silent and smooth, the AC is working fine and blows very cold air even in the hot mid-day sun. The suspension is not RAV4 soft but more on the firm and sporty side (like Mazda). Handling is very reassuring and confident for a SUV thanks in part to those very grippy Toyo 235 series tyres wrapped on 18” octopus styled rims. The fit and finish is amazing for this class and the features are awesome in particular the Honda Lane Watch, Driver Attention Monitor and Honda Agility Assist. The 8 speaker stereo is surprisingly good with nice tonal range and the leather feels premium. It has smart phone integration and a massive instrument cluster screen in full digital which can be customized. Finally those front LEDs are very bright, the distance the light itself travels and the wide range it captures - no unlit back road at night would be intimidating again. The remote start comes in handy to warm up the vehicle before driving off on a morning and you are able to close the windows and panoramic sunroof (a CRV first) with the remote as well. What we don’t like is that it doesn’t come with a sub or amp, door scuff/sill plates, rear cargo cover, paddle shifters, wireless cell phone charging, knee airbag, front camera, puddle lights, ventilated seats, lit vanity mirrors, Auto dimming rear view mirror and a roof rack. Given the price and overall features etc, It was worth it. For the accessories we did not get with the vehicle, luckily since the CRV is a global crossover and offered almost as the same spec as the NA version, a trip to Amazon took care of many items as opposed to ordering directly through Classic Motors which may prove to be a more expensive route. We shall update more as miles are racked up on it. So far so good in terms of the sale and customer service as well. We would be filling with premium despite the sales person mentioning that super is fine. The model we got is the 5-seater RVSi 2WD. The AWD model will arrive after Christmas and I am not sure if that version will have the extra seats to make it a 7-seater (similar to the Xtrail).
EvoTarmac wrote:agent007 wrote:Hey guys, I wanted to post up our newest addition to the family but did not get the time to do so until now. Will post more pics soon!
So far the 190hp turbo engine is pulling ok, the CVT is very silent and smooth, the AC is working fine and blows very cold air even in the hot mid-day sun. The suspension is not RAV4 soft but more on the firm and sporty side (like Mazda). Handling is very reassuring and confident for a SUV thanks in part to those very grippy Toyo 235 series tyres wrapped on 18” octopus styled rims. The fit and finish is amazing for this class and the features are awesome in particular the Honda Lane Watch, Driver Attention Monitor and Honda Agility Assist. The 8 speaker stereo is surprisingly good with nice tonal range and the leather feels premium. It has smart phone integration and a massive instrument cluster screen in full digital which can be customized. Finally those front LEDs are very bright, the distance the light itself travels and the wide range it captures - no unlit back road at night would be intimidating again. The remote start comes in handy to warm up the vehicle before driving off on a morning and you are able to close the windows and panoramic sunroof (a CRV first) with the remote as well. What we don’t like is that it doesn’t come with a sub or amp, door scuff/sill plates, rear cargo cover, paddle shifters, wireless cell phone charging, knee airbag, front camera, puddle lights, ventilated seats, lit vanity mirrors, Auto dimming rear view mirror and a roof rack. Given the price and overall features etc, It was worth it. For the accessories we did not get with the vehicle, luckily since the CRV is a global crossover and offered almost as the same spec as the NA version, a trip to Amazon took care of many items as opposed to ordering directly through Classic Motors which may prove to be a more expensive route. We shall update more as miles are racked up on it. So far so good in terms of the sale and customer service as well. We would be filling with premium despite the sales person mentioning that super is fine. The model we got is the 5-seater RVSi 2WD. The AWD model will arrive after Christmas and I am not sure if that version will have the extra seats to make it a 7-seater (similar to the Xtrail).
Hello, any further reviews on the CR-V? I am interested in getting one.
Congrats 007, looks like you didn't cop the chevy equinox after allagent007 wrote:No problems to report. 11,000kms+ later and its still as good as new! The intro price from 359k went up to 379k and it is expected to increase yet again after the budget so act now. The 4WD version is $410-415k and that is also subject to increase. The basic is $310k which is a steal of a deal considering what you're getting however at that price the Mazda CX-5 is better despite being down on power. Goodluck pal.
EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
sharadu2 wrote:That milage for a vezel has to be highway runs only, more specifically no traffic, wishful thinking. I have a vezel about 18months now and city use in and around San Fernando I get 500 Kms on a tank of gas. Highway runs I did 3 times for the week San Fernando to trincity early morning no traffic I got 630 kms. As per recall on issues my chassis number wasn’t on any recall lists and anyone considering buying one should verify using chassis number. Overall it’s a very good vehicle. Very powerful and responsive.very spacious compared to other suv in same category, Tucson,vitara or cx5. Seat folding options in the rear makes it unique for carrying load.
agent007 wrote:No problems to report. 11,000kms+ later and its still as good as new! The intro price from 359k went up to 379k and it is expected to increase yet again after the budget so act now. The 4WD version is $410-415k and that is also subject to increase. The basic is $310k which is a steal of a deal considering what you're getting however at that price the Mazda CX-5 is better despite being down on power. Goodluck pal.
SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
Honda is expensive to maintain, usually when you have to replace parts. Parts places also charge more for Honda parts or want to sell you the more expensive aftermarket options.SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
What oil is recommended for that vehicle... 5w20... Cause that wouldn't be such a problem if it had a higher viscosity oil.drchaos wrote:SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
A fellow tuner did point out to me that there is a class action law suit starting up in the states against Honda for the 1.5 Turbo.
Oil dilution seems to be the issue, which can shorten the life of the engine. So far cold climates seem worst affected but there is little information.
kamakazi wrote:What oil is recommended for that vehicle... 5w20... Cause that wouldn't be such a problem if it had a higher viscosity oil.drchaos wrote:SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
A fellow tuner did point out to me that there is a class action law suit starting up in the states against Honda for the 1.5 Turbo.
Oil dilution seems to be the issue, which can shorten the life of the engine. So far cold climates seem worst affected but there is little information.
drchaos wrote:SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
A fellow tuner did point out to me that there is a class action law suit starting up in the states against Honda for the 1.5 Turbo.
Oil dilution seems to be the issue, which can shorten the life of the engine. So far cold climates seem worst affected but there is little information.
kamakazi wrote:Honda is expensive to maintain, usually when you have to replace parts. Parts places also charge more for Honda parts or want to sell you the more expensive aftermarket options.SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
kamakazi wrote:Not always as easy as it sounds especially if your car isn't a model that sold worldwide or has unique features.
But that is probably changing now.
So about the aftermarket parts I talked about earlier...I just want people to understand that aftermarket makes quality parts as well. As far as I know...Honda doesn't make or manufacture fluids, sparkplugs, belts, shocks, bulbs, brakes, etc.
(Just using Honda as the example here)
Regarding new vehicles:
Manufacturers want you to buy their vehicles so they advertise how long their vehicle can go without having certain services done like oil changes or say things like lifetime fluid all to market a lower total cost of ownership
Dealers or service stations want you to come back as often as possible to have items serviced so they can charge you as much times as possible to have unnecessary services done and sell you whatever parts they have to sell
You have to understand this to make an informed decision.
quattro wrote:drchaos wrote:SLVR1 wrote:EvoTarmac wrote:Thanks for the good advice guys. I actually did a test drive already and it's one of the better SUV's I have test drove. Very comfortable, spacious and the engine responded quite remarkable. Actually, it was the basic I drove and it's not very basic if you ask me. I would like to test drive the CX5 but SS servicing issues in the past have me thinking twice. I have never owned a Honda vehicle before, but with your reviews and my own interpretation, I think this might be the one.
Once you change your fluids at the regular intervals (I use only Honda Genuine) you should have no issues. I have family and friends that say how expensive Honda are to repair, the cost to service etc. but having owned one for 10 years from new I can attest that they are solid and reliable and do not cost much to service especially if you do the fluid changes for yourself (after the warranty period). Of course some question the reliability of these new turbo engines vs the NA ones but knowing Honda, they would ensure a solid product not to mentioned since you are buying from the firm, any recalls will be applied so that is peace of mind. As I said, my CR-V will come in around Nov./Dec. but the showroom was full of PDT ones waiting to be collected (about 6) so as Agent007 said, act now. Consider though, the basic ones only have front airbags vs the RVSi with its full complement.
A fellow tuner did point out to me that there is a class action law suit starting up in the states against Honda for the 1.5 Turbo.
Oil dilution seems to be the issue, which can shorten the life of the engine. So far cold climates seem worst affected but there is little information.
Doesn’t seem like it would be a significant issue in our climate. From what I read, the problem is that short trips in cold climates don’t allow the engine to warm up enough to evaporate the uncombusted gas collected in the oil pan. Would likely smell the gas in the cabin if it’s happening
noobie wrote:https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/rav4/2019/2019-toyota-rav4-first-look-review/
So apparently the new Toyota RAV4s are just coming with 2.5 litre engines, petrol. The fact that it also comes in hybrid trim doesn't matter since the hybrid tax benefit was revoked for 2.0+ engines.
As the markets continue to change and 2.0+ engines become more efficient, will countries like Trinidad get priced out of the market for the top cars?
So far things worked to our benefit as manufacturers produced lower cc engines and paired them with Turbos to meet efficiency targets. If this trend changes, will an SUV or a Pickup truck be the equivalent of an S Class Benz in our market?
How much would a 2.5 Litre RAV4 be if a 1.5litre CRV starts at $310,000??
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