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T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 7th, 2019, 10:29 pm

... and all of this good discussion to what end? Instead of complaining about it on trinituner, can't the effort be spent to lobby towards better value for dollar and more competition?

Once there is competition, prices will be better. Before this govt changed the import requirements for RORO vehicles, I could remember when RORO was offering options to ppl and vehicle prices were competitive. The cars selling now for 200k and up could have been easily snapped up for 120k new, if one compares apples back then to what the apples are now.

Now you getting toots for 300k plus. All because the market is not competitive. New car dealers almost have a monopoly in some segments.

But as with everything else in this society we complain and whine and antagonise the wrong ppl instead of targeting what matters.

If van buyers decide that they not buying ranger, hilux or navarra, what will happen? Prices will fall.

If ppl stop running down the sportage and the tuscon, prices will fall. So instead of a possible 40% profit, dealers will settle for a 20% profit and everyone happy.

We just not competitive and it doh help that these tax structures are so aimed to benefit businesses and corporations, while screwing the working class.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 7th, 2019, 10:35 pm

yep that change from 6 to 4 year old Roll on roll off was a big deal

this was done as soon as PNM came into power.

this was obviously done as repayment to big business for election support

Reality is it's only in Sweet TT where prices of new cars increase drastically every year

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby SLVR1 » January 7th, 2019, 11:27 pm

carluva wrote:... and all of this good discussion to what end? Instead of complaining about it on trinituner, can't the effort be spent to lobby towards better value for dollar and more competition?

Once there is competition, prices will be better. Before this govt changed the import requirements for RORO vehicles, I could remember when RORO was offering options to ppl and vehicle prices were competitive. The cars selling now for 200k and up could have been easily snapped up for 120k new, if one compares apples back then to what the apples are now.

Now you getting toots for 300k plus. All because the market is not competitive. New car dealers almost have a monopoly in some segments.

But as with everything else in this society we complain and whine and antagonise the wrong ppl instead of targeting what matters.

If van buyers decide that they not buying ranger, hilux or navarra, what will happen? Prices will fall.

If ppl stop running down the sportage and the tuscon, prices will fall. So instead of a possible 40% profit, dealers will settle for a 20% profit and everyone happy.

We just not competitive and it doh help that these tax structures are so aimed to benefit businesses and corporations, while screwing the working class.



I would say that the ease of getting finance has played a huge roll when it comes to pricing as persons are enticed easily into debt while projecting image. New and used car dealers know this and therefore, price with that in mind. Keep in mind that some of these new tax structures also hurt businesses and can push up prices since companies need to show certain profit margins not only to their investors but to their suppliers. The working class will always feel the pinch more since their incomes tend to remain stagnant especially in our country. Also, these businesses price for slow periods so when a decline in sales hit, they have a buffer. When you see a sale, the early adopters paid for your discount is many instances.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2019, 6:15 am

telfer wrote:
PariaMan wrote:the CAD you using is the price to the customer in Canada after dealer markup.

the profit is therefore much more than 50 percent
cryotec wrote:Using telfer's figures, assuming price is in CAD:

27000 (cost of car) + 3000 (shipping) = 30000 CAD or 155k TTD

MVT = 0 as CC < 1599
Custom = 155000 x 0.2 = 31000
VAT = (155000+31000) x 0.125 = 23250

Final price = $209,250. If we assume the 310k model here is equivalent to the one that telfer bought, the margin is ~50%. If we consider that the cost of the car and shipping is likely to be less, then it probably will be more.

Correct Ansa is already getting dealer price plus the shipping will be less because the amount being bought in one time .....no matter how yuh look at it they making a killing

:| Why are we comparing LHD and RHD prices where no consideration is being given to economies of scale on the ex-factory price with respect to the number of LHD models produced compared to the number of RHD models produced?

Using the figures from http://www.batfa.com for a RHD 2WD CRV from Japan, assuming that the multiplication factors are correct in cryotec's calculations, the following are the costs involved in importing your own CRV new from Japan:

http://www.batfa.com/new_car_honda_cr_v.htm

CIF to Trinidad = US$40,320 TT$274,147.80
MVT = TT$0.00
Duties = TT$54,829.56
VAT = TT$41,122.17
Total = TT$370,099.50

How does that compare to the local dealer's price given that batfa's price is inclusive of profit?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby telfer » January 8th, 2019, 6:53 am

This makes no sense using Batfa ....ansa doesn’t buy from Batfa ......ansa gets dealer prices
But it seems like some people intent is to make excuses for everything in this country
Let’s take a simple simple simple example....my kid wanted a unicorn thing she saw in toymart- price in trini $1300
Toymart in Canada 70ca x 5.4tt —-$378tt

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T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 8th, 2019, 7:00 am

Telfer, i for one dont disagree with you on anything you have said. The basic message is clear - in Trinidad items are way overpriced with no regard for being competitive.

And yes ppl in this banana republic make more noise than anything else but dont do anything to drive a change.

Basically, we like it so and will continue to pay champagne price for mauby. So let Raj be Raj with his Hilux, the cost of which could really be that of a benz and let John Family feel like the ultimate Dad driving he toots CRV when he could be driving a BMW in reality. It will always have a Raj and John Family because the need for the vehicle outweighs the need to seek better prices.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 7:12 am

That Batfa price will include all Japanese taxes ad well as dealer markup no way ANSA will be paying close to that price

How you think ANSA could afford to have sale on some vehicles sometimes with 20% discount ?

The rest of time is real dig out eye taking place

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2019, 7:26 am

telfer wrote:This makes no sense using Batfa ....ansa doesn’t buy from Batfa ......ansa gets dealer prices
But it seems like some people intent is to make excuses for everything in this country
Let’s take a simple simple simple example....my kid wanted a unicorn thing she saw in toymart- price in trini $1300
Toymart in Canada 70ca x 5.4tt —-$378tt

I just used that as an example. But people in this thread comparing LHD prices to RHD prices which, from basic economics considering economies of scale, make absolutely no sense.

So unless we know what CIF prices the local dealers get their models at, the only thing we could say is that it appears that the local dealers have a somewhat higher than normal markup for overhead and profit.

From Honda UK's website, a 4WD RHD 5 seater CRV on the road in the UK costs approximately TT$320,170.05 (my calculation for a similar model out of Japan being imported to T&T by an individual is around TT$389,000 on the road). What is the local cost of the equivalent model? You all need to remember VAT and Duty charges do not go to the dealer, those charges go back to the government. So what really is the dealer's markup on the vehicle to cover his overhead and profit?

How many of you all here actually know how to calculate overhead charges in a company? Profit is usually dictated by what the market is willing to pay. Overhead charges are easy to calculate from company to company once your financial records are in order.

Anyone has hard figures, or are we just, as usual, talking out of our asses?
Last edited by Rory Phoulorie on January 8th, 2019, 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 8th, 2019, 7:28 am

^^^ this.

Exactly. Real farting happening here that being passed off as logic and examples

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 7:41 am

just checked the internet the lowest priced CRV in the UK is 216000 tt most expensive 7 seater is 302000

Real gas lighting taking place here

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2019, 7:54 am

PariaMan wrote:just checked the internet the lowest priced CRV in the UK is 216000 tt most expensive 7 seater is 302000

Real gas lighting taking place here

I just took the on the road price (and not the total price payable) from this website.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v/o ... nance.html

Again, I ask, do we have any definite figures of what the local dealers pay CIF?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 7:57 am

i used this site

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v/s ... tions.html

this is the official on road price in the UK
Rory Phoulorie wrote:
PariaMan wrote:just checked the internet the lowest priced CRV in the UK is 216000 tt most expensive 7 seater is 302000

Real gas lighting taking place here

I just took the on the road price (and not the total price payable) from this website.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v/o ... nance.html

Again, I ask, do we have any definite figures of what the local dealers pay CIF?

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 8:08 am

There is an old saying never give a sucker an even break

we are suckers and the 1 % is aware of this

Instead of challenging them we are trying to explain away their action

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2019, 8:15 am

PariaMan wrote:There is an old saying never give a sucker an even break

we are suckers and the 1 % is aware of this

Instead of challenging them we are trying to explain away their action

The only way we could "challenge" them is to not buy from them. They are under no legal obligation to justify their prices to the buyers. But how many people in T&T are going to do that? People are still buying vehicles in these hard economic times like if is hops bread they buying.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2019, 8:20 am

PariaMan wrote:i used this site

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/cr-v/s ... tions.html

this is the official on road price in the UK

I not nitpicking eh! But you should check back what transmission you are choosing as your comparison when quoting prices. The most expensive CRV (7 seater, AWD, CVT) from your link is is around TT$321,816.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 8th, 2019, 8:23 am

Rory Phoulorie wrote:
PariaMan wrote:There is an old saying never give a sucker an even break

we are suckers and the 1 % is aware of this

Instead of challenging them we are trying to explain away their action

The only way we could "challenge" them is to not buy from them. They are under no legal obligation to justify their prices to the buyers. But how many people in T&T are going to do that? People are still buying vehicles in these hard economic times like if is hops bread they buying.
Exactly

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby adnj » January 8th, 2019, 8:32 am

The "average markup" for a dealer in the UK and the USA is about the same: about 8%. That's before any taxes are added on top of the vehicle price.

There are also "dealer holdbacks" that are additional payments made to dealers that meet sales targets, special incentives such as rebates paid to the buyer, and manufacturer discounts that are paid to the dealer.

Some vehicles are sold at margins of about 1% while other popular models are sold at 15% to 30% or more.

Here's a link from a UK forum discussing pricing:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/119020/all---main-dealer

As said before, it's worth what others are willing to pay. Vote with your dollar.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 8:39 am

you are nitpicking you did not see the cheapest in UK is 216k while the cheapest in Sweet TT is 350000tt you missed that ,lol

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby sweeks » January 8th, 2019, 8:46 am

FYI

1. Those UK prices consist of a 20% VAT. Should VAT be charged on vehicles being exported out of the UK? I could be wrong but I don't think so.

2. Dealerships doesn't necessarily make a lot of money from vehicles sales. Their real profits comes from parts and service. Any idea how expensive it is to run a dealership and invest in training, new technologies etc. Why hasn't more dealership invested in hybrids? Besides the 1% pushing CNG, hybrid technology and training is a big investment for any dealership.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 8:56 am

sweeks wrote:FYI

1. Those UK prices consist of a 20% VAT. Should VAT be charged on vehicles being exported out of the UK? I could be wrong but I don't think so.

2. Dealerships doesn't necessarily make a lot of money from vehicles sales. Their real profits comes from parts and service. Any idea how expensive it is to run a dealership and invest in training, new technologies etc. Why hasn't more dealership invested in hybrids? Besides the 1% pushing CNG, hybrid technology and training is a big investment for any dealership.
why are you saying that dealers do not make money on new vehicles?

if the cheapest on the road in the UK is 216tt and the cheapest on the road it tt is 350000tt?

How come every year there is a big jump in prices when internationally the price hardly changes?

We will never be allowed to know the real prices that ANSA pays because that will remove the blindfolds

And suckers are best when they cannot see

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby SLVR1 » January 8th, 2019, 9:14 am

FYI these are the current rates i.e. MVT etc.
Image

A 1496 cc x $5.00 is MVT TT$7,480.00 (non hybrid)

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby telfer » January 8th, 2019, 9:15 am

And a crv is 1.5 Turbo

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 9:29 am

telfer wrote:And a crv is 1.5 Turbo
And our vat is 12 % compared to 20 % (re sweeks )

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby telfer » January 8th, 2019, 9:39 am

Lessons learnt
1.Dealerships hit us for six with their markups
2.SLVR1 works for or benefit from these said dealerships
3. My CRV still cost less with much more features and it wasn’t the highest spec

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby supernedd » January 8th, 2019, 9:40 am

carluva wrote:... and all of this good discussion to what end? Instead of complaining about it on trinituner, can't the effort be spent to lobby towards better value for dollar and more competition?

Once there is competition, prices will be better. Before this govt changed the import requirements for RORO vehicles, I could remember when RORO was offering options to ppl and vehicle prices were competitive. The cars selling now for 200k and up could have been easily snapped up for 120k new, if one compares apples back then to what the apples are now.

Now you getting toots for 300k plus. All because the market is not competitive. New car dealers almost have a monopoly in some segments.

But as with everything else in this society we complain and whine and antagonise the wrong ppl instead of targeting what matters.

If van buyers decide that they not buying ranger, hilux or navarra, what will happen? Prices will fall.

If ppl stop running down the sportage and the tuscon, prices will fall. So instead of a possible 40% profit, dealers will settle for a 20% profit and everyone happy.

We just not competitive and it doh help that these tax structures are so aimed to benefit businesses and corporations, while screwing the working class.
I feel is more like 100% profit them making yes. Lol

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » January 8th, 2019, 9:44 am

i feel you right

These dealers will never say the engine of the CRV is smaller now so we will drop the price!

They will say the suckers bought the last shipment in record time so we can afford to raise the price again

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby cryotec » January 8th, 2019, 10:46 am

Updated breakdown to address incorrect tax rates and use a more reasonable shipment rate. Based on these calculations, every $1 increase in the cost of vehicle, or CIF for that matter, yields the increase of $1.4 to the final price.

Image

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby SLVR1 » January 8th, 2019, 10:49 am

Wow you have been busy.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » January 8th, 2019, 10:52 am

cryotec wrote:Updated breakdown to address incorrect tax rates and use a more reasonable shipment rate. Based on these calculations, every $1 increase in the cost of vehicle, or CIF for that matter, yields the increase of $1.4 to the final price.

Image


Interesting work but all those prices are for LHD vehicles that possibly also benefit from being built in North America and thus avoid certain taxes. Would be even more interesting if RHD vehicles are used from other markets like UK or even Japan. Thanks for the good work so far.

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Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » January 8th, 2019, 10:54 am

SLVR1 wrote:Wow you have been busy.


But SLVR1, you should have been well aware of this. After all, you do work for or benefit from a dealership.

:wink: :P

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