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Hyundai H1, Nissan Serena, Suzuki APV - Which is the best?

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V2NR 3.0
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Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 2nd, 2013, 11:25 pm

I am interested in buying one of these, however I don't know anyone with either. Which is the better vehicle in terms of mileage economy, Mtce etc. I was told that there is a particular Serena model which gives a lot of trouble. Appreciate any feedback.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby moti » December 3rd, 2013, 10:50 am

We tend to have a few Serena's come in the shop and the owner complains of over heating.
There are a bunch of taxi's working South/Chag. to Curepe/POS with either their grills out or a bunch of speaker box ports all over the front.

There is really not much of the Noah's around to equate to the amount of the Serena's but I trust that they are not facing the same problems as the Nissan's.
Though the Nissan's do tend to come with some cool gadgets (e.g. the Rider Serena etc)

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 3rd, 2013, 10:55 am

Moti - Appreciate the feedback. I was told that the non-sr20 type models are the ones that give a lot of trouble. Can you confirm/deny ?

Still waiting on someone with Noah experiences to contribute.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby moti » December 3rd, 2013, 11:02 am

Yup, the models with the MR series engines are the ones that tend to give owners some headache and wallet-ache as well.
Presently we have one in our shop, the owner wants a SR20 installed.

I think he should have sold the van instead, but it's not my decision I guess.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 3rd, 2013, 11:37 am

Great information man, I know Toyota is known for real quality - I drive a Toyota now - So really interested in someone to post up feedback for the Noah

So if I'm going Serena - its the SR20 model to go with...

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 4th, 2013, 3:31 pm

Any Noah persons in the mix that could provide some information please

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby eliteauto » December 4th, 2013, 3:56 pm

is a real catch 22 with the Serenas, the C25s are much better looking but those are the ones with the overheating issues, the C24's have less complaints but are less attractive outside and inside, a Serena owner told me as soon as you buy change to a thicker rad and better fans, I too am looking at possibly buying one but the prices are flying up...OP where are you seeing the Noah on sale? I'm seeing quite a few on the road recently but not seeing them at RORO dealers

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby todd61 » December 4th, 2013, 7:54 pm

moti wrote:Yup, the models with the MR series engines are the ones that tend to give owners some headache and wallet-ache as well.
Presently we have one in our shop, the owner wants a SR20 installed.



That's right the ones with the MR engines tends to give a lot of problems.There is a model that comes with the QR20 that's the one you should look for.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby moti » December 5th, 2013, 9:09 am

^^ The ones with the QR20 engines are the C24 chassis, these (as eliteauto said) are the not too "pretty" ones.

The SR20 is inside the C25 one in the shop, will take photo and post up tomorrow here.

I wonder if upgrading the radiator, removing the thermo and running the fans "direct" will help with the issues facing the C25's cooling (although removal of the thermostat will increase fuel consumption).
Because like the HR15, the MR20 seems to be reliable but cooling is what tends to plague these engines (at least in Trinidad under taxi conditions)

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby wagonrunner » December 5th, 2013, 10:54 am

moti wrote:I wonder if upgrading the radiator, removing the thermo and running the fans "direct" will help with the issues f

that worsens the situation. all you are doing there is preventing the temp guage from showing the damage that's being done.

http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=436917&hilit=serena

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 5th, 2013, 11:30 am

eliteauto wrote:is a real catch 22 with the Serenas, the C25s are much better looking but those are the ones with the overheating issues, the C24's have less complaints but are less attractive outside and inside, a Serena owner told me as soon as you buy change to a thicker rad and better fans, I too am looking at possibly buying one but the prices are flying up...OP where are you seeing the Noah on sale? I'm seeing quite a few on the road recently but not seeing them at RORO dealers


The Noahs that you are seeing on the road are being ordered from places that bring down RORO cars. I'm guessing that the Serena is more attractively priced with more features hence the reason they are so popular. There is a guy who i am conversing with who brings down RORO's and considering one out of the two.

The Serenas are quite popular, however, Toyota is Toyota man - so its 100k vs 146k

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby todd61 » December 5th, 2013, 8:27 pm

moti wrote:^^ The ones with the QR20 engines are the C24 chassis, these (as eliteauto said) are the not too "pretty" ones.

The SR20 is inside the C25 one in the shop, will take photo and post up tomorrow here.

I wonder if upgrading the radiator, removing the thermo and running the fans "direct" will help with the issues facing the C25's cooling (although removal of the thermostat will increase fuel consumption).
Because like the HR15, the MR20 seems to be reliable but cooling is what tends to plague these engines (at least in Trinidad under taxi conditions)


Ok cool

I find these day alot of c25 owners coming in looking for the fans seems like the heat down here killing the fans.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V8 Boys » December 7th, 2013, 12:09 am

I certainly am not one to mince words when it comes to NEW CARS these days. Especially when the trend in almost everything these days is replace not repair. I just hate to see the hard working average man, who was accustomed getting 20plus years out of a good ol fashioned all cast iron motor, before a rebuild....spend his precious few dollar$ on something that makes him want to take a hammer to it.

Well, times have changed and many now opt for gadgets, comfort, style and metallic paint instead of grey and "brung"...and "it'll run til the doors fall off".

That being said, allow me to relate a personal experience with the Serena....Q-whatever you wanna call it.
My father decided to get one (Serena) as he was retiring and working one as taxi would help put bread on his table as he could not work as he used to.

The first 3mths (he bought it from Rally Mac at the time)....he was always glowing in appreciation of the "ride, the power and the 7 seats".

Then it started to waste fuel, and one day....he neglected to OPEN the rad to check for water...instead just lookin into the reservoir. From day one tho, he would tell me "son, come put your hand here....see? The bonnet hot like fire, even the fenders...you cant touch them they so hot...that's normal?"

I allowed it to cool and topped up the rad, and realised the top of the rad...PLASTIC of course, had a hairline crack...so he couldn't SEE the loss of coolant. And that was due to the original fans not being able to cool the motor.

1 week later , new fans, new rad (metal top & bottom) and it was still frothing.
And of course when I couldn't help he had to face the Grande Mechanic$.
We had to change the gasket....I thought. So, to save time I thought I'd just take the head off from on TOP and send it to shave.

Eh heh? Took me all day just to get that front engine cover off, by loosing all the mounts, canting the motor, and contorting my body. Well, off the Anil's Machine shop...took a few thou off and another gasket.

I almost made the mistake of turning the head upside down and let all the valve cups fall out...and oye...they are weighted and specifically set for each blinkin valve eh..and NOT numbered in sequence by the factory.
So, many hours later with more contortioning it was back together. It was just 4 days later Dad was back...frothing, hissing and misfiring. We changed a few coils, and that in itself took a few hrs...but eventually it was the block....

This over-designed-under-engineered Japanes master piece was an ALL alluminum high compression...gasket-less motor....I mean besides the head gasket the JAPS assembled this thing with the 3 part break away block and head with NOT ONE BLOODY paper or Teflon gasket...it was all metal to metal contact with a factory black silicone to seal the surfaces.

So, out came the motor...and my poor Dad, had very little money to get someone else to do it, or afford another motor which would have cost him about $9000.
The block was indeed warped as well, and so was the head,,,again.

THAT ENGINE HAD PARTS TO UNBOLT BOY LORD!
and it had to be dropped from "below-neath"
So, up it went, all silicone and meticulously assembled by me. And it worked well for a few weeks...and Dad was nervous to drive it but had to, poor fella.

He used to drive with the bonnet "released" so the damn thing would cook itself. And I actually followed someones advice to take out the catalytic converter....and that in itself drastically reduced the under the bonnet heat and from under the car as well.

He listened to me and got rid of it before it drove him mad. And if there was anyone who cared for all of his vehicles as if they were his only child it was my Dad. Meticulously clean and always serviced.
Just before he sold it to another Grande Taxi man, we changed the rubbers under the engine cradle...and chassis mounts for the sub-frame...they were ALL shot. And this thing was even doin 75,000km yet.

The most ironic thing is is that Nissan always had temperature gauges in their vehicles...always...except for this Serena their pride and joy for the commuting public.

So by the time that LIGHT on the dash lit up...the damage would have already been done.

That's what they did for their loyal customers,, and Neal & NAsty to this day do not inform their customers that the XTrails that carry a similar motor (Cash-Qui too) that the motor has overheating issues.

I have looked at the motor in depth and have come to the conclusion that it was the first of the "throw-away" 5yr life-span motors that Japan was putting out because of there philosophy that ppl were now onlky keeping their new vehicles for 5yrs or less in Japan,,,so hence the Intentional Shortened Work life of their motors. It is way too a high compressioned motor for such a small block and pistons...and the all allum construction and girdle was never well thought out.

Cous'? Doh make the mistake and buy no Serena just because yuh could make more money on the hustle eh...you'll kick yourself.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby kurpal_v2 » December 7th, 2013, 7:26 am

Yuhno I always wondered why the qashqai (mr16) ran so hot and why nissan equip them with fans louder than the engine.



Good stuff.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby clintus » December 7th, 2013, 8:52 am

So true cause I often see those as taxi's running crepe to chagunas route after doing 160kmh, the drivers are seen having their bonnets up when parked on stand to allow extra air passage. But it seems to be a problem with the latest model Serena cause I have family members who own 3 of the previous model with no problems

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby eliteauto » December 7th, 2013, 5:29 pm

Thanks for the share V8 Boys

yet oddly the Serena prices seem to be climbing

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby cinco » December 7th, 2013, 5:34 pm

Interesrting read. What oil are these taxi men using? And maybe the cats are clogging from using super?

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby Team Loco » December 7th, 2013, 6:18 pm

Never heard any problems with the noah

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 7th, 2013, 8:58 pm

V8 Boys: - Excellent write up man. Thank you for taking the time to pen that response. The more i read - the more I'm swaying towards the Noah. There are too many versions, stories and accounts to ignore.

Today i went to Suzuki and explored the APV...priced at 199k - these things are not exactly the prettiest or practical type vehicles. I went across to Hyndai to check the H1 passenger - priced at 267k

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby moti » December 9th, 2013, 2:22 pm

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Sorry for the delay. :)

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby moti » December 9th, 2013, 2:28 pm

Still think he should have sold it rather than do that conversion.
The SR while is a great engine, it's getting outdated and as such parts will be difficult to obtain in the future and obviously with higher costs too.

The MR seems to be okay and I would have tried to work with it rather than give up so easily.
Then again, it's his "bread & butter" so easy and fast fix would be advisable then.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 9th, 2013, 2:30 pm

I think the Noah is the way to go.

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby moti » December 9th, 2013, 2:33 pm

Whats the price for one locally at a RORO stealer?

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby cinco » December 9th, 2013, 3:03 pm

noahs are around 140 iirc

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby eliteauto » December 9th, 2013, 3:25 pm

where allyuh seeing Noahs/Voxys selling? V2NR 3.0 the H1 was my first pick but the price

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 9th, 2013, 3:41 pm

eliteauto

On Saturday i went and had a look at the H1 Passenger vehicle. These things are huge, powerful and very comfortable. It comes with a 2.5 turbo diesel engine and starts at 267k. This is quite steep, but if you have the cash - shouldn't be too much of a bad investment.

Regarding your question about the Toyota Noah, i believe they are the best bang for the buck. There have been too many stories about ups and downs of the Serena line with no-one coming to the defense of the said vehicle. The Noah on the other hand - flawless.

There is this contact person i know in Arima who brings down vehciles at pretty nifty prices. This is just an example of what I'm looking at proced @ 146k

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby cinco » December 9th, 2013, 5:26 pm

eliteauto wrote:where allyuh seeing Noahs/Voxys selling? V2NR 3.0 the H1 was my first pick but the price

my mech got someone to bring his in the full 9 seater (or was it 7 how much ever the most seats it can come with) he got one of those and it costed him ~140

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby tourniquet » December 11th, 2013, 11:32 pm

so since the OP just about eliminated the serena, is there a significant difference feature/ price wise between the Noah and the Voxy?

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 25th, 2013, 2:38 am

tourniquet wrote:so since the OP just about eliminated the serena, is there a significant difference feature/ price wise between the Noah and the Voxy?


The prices are around the same with slight differences in trimming. I went into the RORO dealer off Medford Chaguanas and asks about the Noah. The guy that they don't bring them down. He also indicated that parts are hard to find for these vehicles hence the reason for them not being that popular as compared to the Serena. :roll:

I would really like someone owning a Noah to jump in this thread and shed some light

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Re: Nissan Serena vs Toyota Noah

Postby V2NR 3.0 » December 25th, 2013, 2:39 am

moti wrote:Still think he should have sold it rather than do that conversion.
The SR while is a great engine, it's getting outdated and as such parts will be difficult to obtain in the future and obviously with higher costs too.

The MR seems to be okay and I would have tried to work with it rather than give up so easily.
Then again, it's his "bread & butter" so easy and fast fix would be advisable then.


Any follow up on how the transplant working ?

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