Open Forum for Solodex Rules for 2011

[NLVA200]

^ good suggestion

last night it was also recommended that we simply space the sensors further apart to further reduce the risk. not sure what the maximum operating range is though.

[Reyos]

actually, the solution to not destroying the sensors is to ensure cars line up dead straight with the finish box
The only time the sensors are at risk is when cars enter the finish box off a corner or approach at an angle, then stomp on the brakes..........the resulting shift in weight and traction increases the risk of a spin
so.............either straight trajectory into the finish box, or a dead slow chicane before the box to slow cars down, and voila, sensors don't get pranged

Good applicable suggestion....

[chris1388]

I think kevin's suggestion along with my suggestion will greatly reduce the risk of any accidents to the timing system. You can also place the physical measures like what wagon runner was suggesting just as a safe guard in the event of an accident.

[MG Man]

in the interest of safety, and at the risk of once again calling down the wrath of the superiors, there was / is a document giving guidelines for course design.........everything from proximity to the perimeter, minimum radius of bends, etc
Again this was all supposed to be upheld and guided under the constitution
Last time I used the nasty 'c' word, the ched got locked, so let's see this time.............

[wagonrunner]

^^
that document was always distributed / shared eh.

here's the link again if anyone else is interested
Course Design

[MG Man]

link nuh work
is that link for the course design guidelines?

[wagonrunner]

now, seeing you need to sign in to google docs to see it. bleh.
its on the cars site as well, but i don't have access to pull that URL

anyhow
Course Design

[Reyos]

^^ Thanks Karl.
I have the document about course design and stuff. (got it from Karl earlier this year)
Had a good time reading it as well. Really good information that I am going to apply to the courses next year....it really covers everything.

[MG Man]

^^^
some friendly advice
the course guidelines limit how creative we can be. People will complain about courses as a result of these limitations...
I (humbly) suggest you post the course design criteria, so members can understand the conventions and use them as a guide when they suggest courses as well

[Reyos]

^^ thats a good idea!....it would save a lot of headache and heartache
I will do that in January before the official start of the 2011 series.

[MG Man]

you select your sub-committee yet?

[Reyos]

I have one dedicated person already.....looking for anyone else who willing to come on board....
You interested??...Feel free to fall in...many hands make light work.

[MG Man]

can I stil make witty remarks here?

[Reyos]

lol...you can make it here and at sub committee meetings......

[pete]

so.. any changes to the rules?

[Reyos]

At the meeting we discussed all the items that were suggested on the thread and emails.
From the feed back that we asked for, only a few people requested changes to the rules. These were discussed at the meeting.
Also, some new ideas were generated and discussed.
I will post some brief notes on the discussions a little later today so that everyone will be kept in the loop.

I just want to point out that we really wanted to get more input from club members.
Curtis did a great job in highlighting what he saw as changes that can improve the organization and for this I want to say thanks.

[MG Man]

I missed the meeting cuz I didn't see the new date here, and I don't pay that close attention to FB alerts

[crazybalhead]

At the meeting we discussed all the items that were suggested on the thread and emails.
From the feed back that we asked for, only a few people requested changes to the rules. These were discussed at the meeting.
Also, some new ideas were generated and discussed.
I will post some brief notes on the discussions a little later today so that everyone will be kept in the loop.

I just want to point out that we really wanted to get more input from club members.
Curtis did a great job in highlighting what he saw as changes that can improve the organization and for this I want to say thanks.

Where are the notes Reyos San? And I think the club members didn't contribute too much because the rules are pretty good. I just wish classes were more constituted on any given day.

[Reyos]

^^ fell asleep a lil early last night...will post the points shortly.

Well to be honest it was not much of a rule discussion that night. A few members had some good ideas about how to improve the club. Heathy discussions can go a long way to help the club.

We are looking to have more like this during the year...remember CARS belongs to all of us so all input from everyone is needed and we can work together to implement things to move forward.

[Reyos]

ITEMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED

(1)Change amount of events required for championship from 4 to 5.
Having 5 competitive events would mean that drivers that already leading in their class would have to take part in more events rather than stop after 4. This however would put a strain on some drivers financially or disrupt vacation plans.
More discussions to be held.

(2)Can Solodex be used as a platform for drivers who intend to go further?
Discussion generated pointed to the direction of possibly opening a expert class for the competitive members and a fun/novice class for the competitors who just wanted to have fun. It was further discussed that the origin of Solodex was about having fun with our daily driven cars. Background work is currently ongoing that is looking at the feasibility of Gymkhana/hillclimb/time attacks type event for the solodex competitors that wants to branch off into more competitive motosports.

(3)Increase in the amount of competitors at Solodex events.
For the 2011 series we are going to increase our marketing strategy and try to encourage more of the various car clubs to come out. CARS is open to starting a class just for a specific club if they can supply a minimum of 5 drivers per class e.g. mini club,ford car club, V8 car club

(4)More recognition to the “slower classes”
It was recommended that drivers can walk with cameras and have friends take pics of their cars while on the course. Even though there may be numerous photographers there on the day, they are there to take pictures of their choice. It was also suggested that the forums can be used to generate hype for any specific class. For example, the SS battle for the 2010 championship series was fought on the forums by trading “gun talk” and then taking it to the course on race day. They hype on the forums tends to generate interest from other who may not be aware of the intense fight that is taking place throughout the year.
In addition, Andre Critchlow of Paradise Motorsports (which is seen in 21 different countries) has graciously offered raw footage free of charge to CARS. However, this will be for private use by members only. No unauthorized use of the media will be allowed.
Andre also stated that Paradise motosports will be paying special attention to Solodex 2011 championship series.

(5)Starting events on time.
Due to starting the events late, we are usually running till late in the evening. This limits the time for fun runs where new drivers who are interested in trying it out can come and experience what it is like. For the 2011 Championship series we propose that we start on time for each and every event. Registration will close at 11 am and late registration at a fee of $50. will be acknowledged until 11:30am.

(6)Drivers briefings.
There were discussions about bringing back drivers briefings on the Wednesday or Thursday evening before the event. A maximum of 1 point will be given to competitors who show up. The briefings would encourage healthy discussions and also be the platform to answer any questions that competitors may have.

(7)Marshalling
It was suggested that we have different marshal groups that work for each event. This would prevent the delay of events due to marshals as well as preventing the same set of folks marshaling at each event. A suggestion to give competitors points if they marshal (this will however be limited). If all members help with the running of an event it would assist with the smooth operation as well as bringing the club members together.
There was also a discussion about putting together a marshal handbook specific to CARS-Solodex events. This would go a long way in helping marshals understand the roles and responsibilities as well as provide useful information.

(8)More women drivers at events.
For the 2011 championship series, it is desired to have more women drivers trying out the events. There are 2 confirmed women drivers for next year. Hopefully CARS membership can encourage more women to take part.

(9) More prizes
Curtis: Want to see other competitors get something too. It was felt that in order to maintain the competitive spirit, prizes should only be given not only to successful drivers. However, it was decided that novice prizes could be reviewed and more added. This is all dependant on sponsorship recieved.

(10)Marshal FIA certification
MARSHAL training from FIA certified trainers: Andre informed us that there are no marshalling instructors licensed to train FIA certified marshals in Trinidad. He said that he could arrange to bring a licensed FIA instructor from Jamaica to train local marshals and was willing to make the arrangement for CARS. Devi also stated that he would look into bringing in someone from Barbados however, Andre indicated that he wasn’t too certain if they had FIA licensed instructors in Barbados who is able to certify others. All agreed it was a good idea to pursue the development of an FIA certified professional marshalling team from CARS. Andre and Devi to collaborate and work on this initiative.

(11)Championship qualification
In order to have more drivers in line for championship, it was suggested that we reduce the amount of competitions needed to qualify from 4 to 3. This would allow for a driver to be able to chase championship standings even though he/she only took part in 3 events.

(12)Timing fro BYCC
It was suggested to have timing for part of each BYCC event.
This is to ensure and encourage drivers that they are getting better with proper practice and seat time.

(13)Class bump points
It was suggested we should adjust the points system for class bumps. After the first class bump increase the number of points needed for the next class bump by 5 points. This was discussed and it was the opinion of all the members present that a driver should know how to mod his car to stay in the class.

(15)Sponsorship for wireless timing equipment.
It was suggested we approach the ministry of sport to get sponsorship for wireless timing equipment. David to make the necessary contact.

(16)BAGO DEX
Andre suggested we continue the Tobago event but get the Tobago House of Assembly involved in it. He said it would be a good idea to let them know that Paradise motorsports will cover it and it will be broadcasted in 21 different countries. Try to arrange things so that competitors can come in and leave on the same day. Make an accommodation for Tobago competitors in Trinidad by starting earlier so they could leave to go back in the evening. It was also suggested that we make bago dex part of the 2011 championship series since a few Tobago competitors will be taking part in the series.

[MG Man]

sooooooooooo...............can I swap out my Cooper suspension for Cooper S suspension and still run in ES?

[pete]

U could do that, put in strut bars and a bigger rear sway bar and still be in ES.

[Reyos]

Well the first question is...is there a difference in suspension of the cooper and cooper s? (not familiar with that car)
If the answer is yes, you would be swapping your normal cooper suspension for the cooper s.... then you have upgraded your suspension. (in other words your car did not come with it and you added it after)
According to the rules if you declare it you will be penalized for it. If you don't declare it and someone lodges a protest and it is found that you have upgraded your suspension and total points put you in a higher class...then you will be penalized according to the rules.

question...the cooper S and the cooper has the same HP and weight?

[chris1388]

Well the first question is...is there a difference in suspension of the cooper and cooper s? (not familiar with that car)
If the answer is yes, you would be swapping your normal cooper suspension for the cooper s.... then you have upgraded your suspension. (in other words your car did not come with it and you added it after)
According to the rules if you declare it you will be penalized for it. If you don't declare it and someone lodges a protest and it is found that you have upgraded your suspension and total points put you in a higher class...then you will be penalized according to the rules.

question...the cooper S and the cooper has the same HP and weight?

why cant he do that ???? This year devi was allowed swift sport shocks on his swift...which is a suspension component that DID NOT come with his swift and is an upgrade as u put it and yet he was given no penalty for doing this. I had no problems with it but now you guys cant come and not allow someone else to do the same...

[MG Man]

Well the first question is...is there a difference in suspension of the cooper and cooper s? (not familiar with that car)
If the answer is yes, you would be swapping your normal cooper suspension for the cooper s.... then you have upgraded your suspension. (in other words your car did not come with it and you added it after)
According to the rules if you declare it you will be penalized for it. If you don't declare it and someone lodges a protest and it is found that you have upgraded your suspension and total points put you in a higher class...then you will be penalized according to the rules.

question...the cooper S and the cooper has the same HP and weight?

your last question is irrelevant to my query
is this a current rule that u are citing?

[Reyos]

Kevin my apologies...my last question was me just being curious....i'm not familiar with the cooper or the cooper s.

I am referencing Table 2 on page 7 of the 2010 rules.
My assumption: Cooper S spring is stiffer and lowers the car (please correct me if i am wrong)
If you are using the same shock as before (hydraulic or gas) and using the Cooper S spring then you would have 1 penalty point.

Chris I did not say he could not do it. It is a competitor's choice to do any modification to his or her car. We cannot tell anyone what they can and can't do to their cars...its their personal vehicle.
The question asked was relevant to penalty points associated with the swapping of suspension parts from another similar car (sport version i believe). AFAIK Devi declared his springs as being the swift sport springs. He openly declared it when he changed and put on new OEM shocks and the sport springs. His swift is similar to Pete's and it is a legal ES car based on the weight to power ratio. On race tyres according to the rules he was bumped to ESP. Not sure if he has any anti roll or sway bars. If he did then his combined points will be 3 ..still legal in class.

Lets say someone whose base class is ES and he has tyres over the width of 225 and coilovers
Thats a total of 4 points. If this person adds an OEM LSD to his/her car and does not declare it then someone lodges a formal protest that person can be penalized for it because he will have a total of 6 points...which puts him in ESP with 2 points.


Guys feel free to ask questions and comment or make suggestions....I sure i don't have the answer to all but we can try and clear the grey areas that appear.

[pete]

The question about the cooper S spring/shock combo would be how many penalty points does it attract, is it 1 point for the stiffer springs or is it 3 points for upgraded springs and shocks? If it's 1 point then it would not be a class bump even if he put in a rear sway bar(which I was saying) which is 2 additional points. However, if that spring/shock upgrade counts as 3 points a rear sway bar would cause the car to be bumped.

[hypothetical]
Also, if the cooper gets points for putting cooper S suspension then what happens if someone puts a cooper engine in a cooper S? The power to weight is now the same as the cooper but it has much better suspension. Does it get the same penalties as if it was a cooper or is it just classed based on power:weight and the stock uprated suspension not count?
[/hypothetical]

[chris1388]

Kevin my apologies...my last question was me just being curious....i'm not familiar with the cooper or the cooper s.

I am referencing Table 2 on page 7 of the 2010 rules.
My assumption: Cooper S spring is stiffer and lowers the car (please correct me if i am wrong)
If you are using the same shock as before (hydraulic or gas) and using the Cooper S spring then you would have 1 penalty point.

Chris I did not say he could not do it. It is a competitor's choice to do any modification to his or her car. We cannot tell anyone what they can and can't do to their cars...its their personal vehicle.
The question asked was relevant to penalty points associated with the swapping of suspension parts from another similar car (sport version i believe). AFAIK Devi declared his springs as being the swift sport springs. He openly declared it when he changed and put on new OEM shocks and the sport springs. His swift is similar to Pete's and it is a legal ES car based on the weight to power ratio. On race tyres according to the rules he was bumped to ESP. Not sure if he has any anti roll or sway bars. If he did then his combined points will be 3 ..still legal in class.

Lets say someone whose base class is ES and he has tyres over the width of 225 and coilovers
Thats a total of 4 points. If this person adds an OEM LSD to his/her car and does not declare it then someone lodges a formal protest that person can be penalized for it because he will have a total of 6 points...which puts him in ESP with 2 points.


Guys feel free to ask questions and comment or make suggestions....I sure i don't have the answer to all but we can try and clear the grey areas that appear.

The springs were declared as tein aftermarket springs and added a penalty....but the shocks are OEM...but NOT for that car. they were swift sport shocks which did NOT come with the stock swift and as such is an upgrade as u stated and should attract points imo, thats why if kevin were to put cooper s shocks on his cooper then he should be given no penalty just as devi was given none for the swift sport shocks.

[ingalook]

Kevin my apologies...my last question was me just being curious....i'm not familiar with the cooper or the cooper s.

I am referencing Table 2 on page 7 of the 2010 rules.
My assumption: Cooper S spring is stiffer and lowers the car (please correct me if i am wrong)
If you are using the same shock as before (hydraulic or gas) and using the Cooper S spring then you would have 1 penalty point.

Chris I did not say he could not do it. It is a competitor's choice to do any modification to his or her car. We cannot tell anyone what they can and can't do to their cars...its their personal vehicle.
The question asked was relevant to penalty points associated with the swapping of suspension parts from another similar car (sport version i believe). AFAIK Devi declared his springs as being the swift sport springs. He openly declared it when he changed and put on new OEM shocks and the sport springs. His swift is similar to Pete's and it is a legal ES car based on the weight to power ratio. On race tyres according to the rules he was bumped to ESP. Not sure if he has any anti roll or sway bars. If he did then his combined points will be 3 ..still legal in class.

Lets say someone whose base class is ES and he has tyres over the width of 225 and coilovers
Thats a total of 4 points. If this person adds an OEM LSD to his/her car and does not declare it then someone lodges a formal protest that person can be penalized for it because he will have a total of 6 points...which puts him in ESP with 2 points.


Guys feel free to ask questions and comment or make suggestions....I sure i don't have the answer to all but we can try and clear the grey areas that appear.

The springs were declared as tein aftermarket springs and added a penalty....but the shocks are OEM...but NOT for that car. they were swift sport shocks which did NOT come with the stock swift and as such is an upgrade as u stated and should attract points imo, thats why if kevin were to put cooper s shocks on his cooper then he should be given no penalty just as devi was given none for the swift sport shocks.

"OEM... but not for that car" that is opening the floodgates... especially with Hondas, dem cars like lego... everything could fit!

[Ignorant Ignis]

ITEMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED

(1)Change amount of events required for championship from 4 to 5.
Having 5 competitive events would mean that drivers that already leading in their class would have to take part in more events rather than stop after 4. This however would put a strain on some drivers financially or disrupt vacation plans.
More discussions to be held.

i would prefer it remain at 4 events



(11)Championship qualification
In order to have more drivers in line for championship, it was suggested that we reduce the amount of competitions needed to qualify from 4 to 3. This would allow for a driver to be able to chase championship standings even though he/she only took part in 3 events.

i disagree..... three events are too little to determine a class winner and not enough time for someone to adjust there car to be more competitive


(13)Class bump points
It was suggested we should adjust the points system for class bumps. After the first class bump increase the number of points needed for the next class bump by 5 points. This was discussed and it was the opinion of all the members present that a driver should know how to mod his car to stay in the class.

why stay in a class after a year? we should in-courage drivers to move up.
the second class bump should be 6 points. and third at 8
use my car as an example.... if i add a lsd to be more competitive in EP class i will go to open where i dont stand a chance.



(16)BAGO DEX
Andre suggested we continue the Tobago event but get the Tobago House of Assembly involved in it. He said it would be a good idea to let them know that Paradise motorsports will cover it and it will be broadcasted in 21 different countries. Try to arrange things so that competitors can come in and leave on the same day. Make an accommodation for Tobago competitors in Trinidad by starting earlier so they could leave to go back in the evening. It was also suggested that we make bago dex part of the 2011 championship series since a few Tobago competitors will be taking part in the series.

not everyone will be able to make it to bago dex as it isnt cheap nor always convenient