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CARS AUTOCROSS 1 - Sunday 17th March (Results added)

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 19th, 2013, 9:54 am

blacktriple_s wrote:I really don't know how else we can encourage participants to marshal. Perhaps some see it that if they pay their entry fee and competition fee, then why should they also have to go help marshal in the hot sun/pouring rain? Also, some may be of the opinion that the club should be responsible for providing marshals at an event.

IIRC, wasn't there some sort of system in the past where competitors were awarded additional points if they assisted during the event?

Yes there was a points system, but that was debated and changed. It could be debated and changed again.

Discipline is a problem. Marshaling is part of competing, but some believe the rules don't apply to them for whatever "special" reason and therefore don't do it. IMO, their times shouldn't even be recorded since they choose the uncooperative route. Perhaps an agreement is needed since their is no understanding, "If you race, and then don't marshal, you forfeit your times. And If you don't marshal and then race, your times won't be recorded". Then you'll get "yadda yadda I couldn't marshal because of.................. ". Back to a lack of discipline.

Anyhoo, just a snapshot of the board before I clean it. Official results will be posted later.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby pete » March 19th, 2013, 10:49 am

How bout this? Marshals get preference on starting position for their run group.

Know how stressful it is as a marshal standing up in hot sun watching an approaching rain cloud as the group you're marshalling for is about to end only to see all the other people in your run group lining up to beat the rain? If they had a separate "fast pass" line for marshals, that would be one incentive. Also even where there is regular dry conditions, a fast pass line would be convenient as you wouldn't have to go and line up. Just go through the line when you want, get in front and do your run.

Then next thing everyone wants to marshal :|

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 19th, 2013, 11:00 am

Not a bad suggestion actually. :lol:, but then what happens when everyone (who is supposed to marshal) does................. :lol:

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby NLVA200 » March 19th, 2013, 11:14 am

pete wrote:How bout this? Marshals get preference on starting position for their run group.

Know how stressful it is as a marshal standing up in hot sun watching an approaching rain cloud as the group you're marshalling for is about to end only to see all the other people in your run group lining up to beat the rain? If they had a separate "fast pass" line for marshals, that would be one incentive. Also even where there is regular dry conditions, a fast pass line would be convenient as you wouldn't have to go and line up. Just go through the line when you want, get in front and do your run.


Brilliant!!!

Then next thing everyone wants to marshal :|


Marshal for 2 consecutive events and then the fast pass line will apply to you :)

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby pete » March 19th, 2013, 12:07 pm

wagonrunner wrote:Not a bad suggestion actually. :lol:, but then what happens when everyone (who is supposed to marshal) does................. :lol:


I don't understand.. you have to marshal first before you get your fast pass :)

In this case the only problem for marshals is for the last run group.. then nobody has anything to "gain" by doing it, except to help out the club and get the event completed.

Maybe offer a free fun run or something, let non-competitors be marshals (although this may be a problem as they wouldn't know the course).

It's just a couple ideas that the committee could discuss and refine. :)

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 19th, 2013, 12:13 pm

liking the fun run idea too. competitors who marshal get fun runs after the event, though with 6 runs an event now............... lil iffy

raise gate / competition fees to offset a coupon per event (mebbe $25-50) towards services at MM for example. or even an increase rebate, those who marshal won't be losing anything. ??

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby NLVA200 » March 19th, 2013, 12:21 pm

All very good suggestions!

I personally wouldn't take up on the fun runs though. 6 is more than enough for me, especially if you want to conserve tyres.

Question to the long standing members: How has it been in the past? This is only my third year in so I'm not sure how things were before that. Did the competitors always willingly assist or did the club ever outsource? It'd be interesting to know.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 19th, 2013, 12:47 pm

There were always those who weren't willing, hence the point system.

During my competing years in our classes, it was a lime.
The guys I competed against would take a car or two, and head to a marhsal point.
We'd be running music, in the cooler, and observing / critiquing the faster drivers' lines as an advantage for when it was our turn. As well telling each other where we think each other could improve. And what to try.

*sighs. It was Utopia. Pours some liquor for the friendships created*

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby SUPAstarr » March 19th, 2013, 1:06 pm

Not to mention antics when yuh had to replace a fallen cone, remember somebody jump in car, pace, handbrake turn, jump out replace cone, pace back to far corner. The good old days

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby eliteauto » March 19th, 2013, 1:14 pm

wagonrunner wrote:There were always those who weren't willing, hence the point system.

During my competing years in our classes, it was a lime.
The guys I competed against would take a car or two, and head to a marhsal point.
We'd be running music, in the cooler, and observing / critiquing the faster drivers' lines as an advantage for when it was our turn. As well telling each other where we think each other could improve. And what to try.

*sighs. It was Utopia. Pours some liquor for the friendships created*



QFT!

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby pete » March 19th, 2013, 2:21 pm

I think any increase in fees would have a negative effect. I don't really like the idea of a penalty.

Last year at least one event I was suffering from sinus problems which had me really run down and I just could not take that sun, I would hate to make people with similar situations pay more. It's definitely not going to encourage them to come back.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby Back2Studio » March 19th, 2013, 3:34 pm

I for one would like to say that I had no problem marshalling whatsoever. Just took a chair with me, Anthony was kind enough to lend me his umbrella (I'll walk with my own next time), a bottle of water and my blackberry and I was good to go. My only regret is I did not have a video camera or a decent Canon SLR on me as well. From my location I was able to observe the veteran drivers like Devi and Christopher and had a great time watching the RB powered 1st gen RX-7 in action. Felt sorry for the guys with the cefiro though...representing for the Nissan camp of course.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby rado » March 19th, 2013, 8:00 pm

In my opinion the whole idea of marshaling needs to be re-looked. I believe some out of the box thinking is required instead of just trying to find a way to force the old model work.

IMHO you need only two marshals. One is a starter, and the other a spotter who can be on top the container with a pair of binoculars.

I see no reason to intimidate competitors into bearing the scotching sun, and the risk that no one insures against just to see if a driver missed a gate or killed a cone. It should not be too much of a task to pay someone a modest fee to be a cone fixer upper for the day. So they know that their job is to reset any cone knocked over after a run. Not to mention that for every track layout, there would be more likely areas for cone carnage.

Regarding the risk factor, what happens some unfortunate day when a car looses control and cleans up a marshal? Who is going to pay for that?

In any case, I'm sure you have watched autocross videos on YouTube! When did you ever see people loitering on the track while a car is running?

Please don't misinterpret my comments. I love the sport, and I am looking forward to participating later in the year... perhaps even the next event, but understand clearly, that I do not believe in the present system of marshaling, I think it is unwise and contains too significant risk, and as such I have no intention of participating in that aspect.

If CARS finds a solution which involves a cost to competitors, I think that is quite understandable, and I would be inclined to support it.

Come on guys... I believe we can do better!

Richard.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby whizpig » March 19th, 2013, 8:03 pm

blacktriple_s wrote:
IIRC, wasn't there some sort of system in the past where competitors were awarded additional points if they assisted during the event?


YES i remember reading that somewhere

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 20th, 2013, 12:06 am

rado,
where's the risk in standing a safe distance away on the back end of a turn?
There are more than enough spots where marshals on a course can be located without being in any risk at all.
And on the topic of insurance, I beleive there is some information on the firm (and a reason why) you sign when you enter the gate.

One person to fix all knocked down cones would stretch the event longer with that type interruption, and until the course is good to go again.

As far as "intimidating competitors", marshaling is a necessary factor, in almost every motorsport I know (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorsport_marshal). And it is part of this sport. But again, some believe it doesn't apply to them. Perhaps you may see the value if folks don't marshal for you, but i guess that's "intimidating", isn't it.

Only two marshals, come under the timing tent next event.

Perhaps the reason you don't see marshals in videos is because the cameraman isn't trying to capture them.

Who are those people in the course in the following?



IMO, ........... sigh........... lemme try to not say it.

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CARS AUTOCROSS 1 Thanks to All

Postby CARSTT SoloDex » March 20th, 2013, 6:20 am

All Members ,
We would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who came out last Sunday to our First event.Special mention goes to our first time competitors who showed great displays of driving that earned one of them the Fastest time for the day as well as the most improve rookie for the day.We thank our sponsors ,NOV Downhole ,Trinituner , and HN Racing for their support.MrDeo for his tent services , Ramesh for the good food as usual, the ambulance services for being on hand and to Sarge for his cheerfulness at the gates in greeting competitors and patrons.Finally to those members both new and seasoned who came to kick things off for the year with a bang. We look forward to seeing you all at our next event on April 7th. :D

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby rado » March 20th, 2013, 7:03 am

I respect that opinion

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby Razkal » March 21st, 2013, 11:09 am

to express myself honestly, that situation with marshall duty at dex1 was utter jackassness.

i was part of the first run group, immediately after i did my seven runs ( first one wasn't timed) i got water and volunteered to marshall...so did others from our group. i stood, sans umbrella or shade for the entirety of group 2 runs...then had to stuff my face with some food quickly before group 1 resumed.
...only to wait in line for HALF HOUR atleast, whilst group 2 drivers generally didin't give a shite. the blue lhd STi driver, got called by Trevor, gave some half-assed excuse and promptly pulled a comfy seat in the shade whilst Group1 drivers were taking an extra dose of sun and frustration. Man like Amir, start to inflate tires and pull car in tent all kinda thing when Trevor started paging people.

i was under the impression its big people we dealing with, it appeared very selfish by the other drivers, in particular those of Group 2. plain talk bad manners.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby Razkal » March 21st, 2013, 11:14 am

next time that selfishness happens, mark my word, there won't be a cone standing for the next run group. i'll kevin khan that course for allyuh

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 21st, 2013, 11:30 am

at Raz's prior comment.

Image


I was shocked that I could head out the compound, come back almost 20 summin minutes later, and Ramon's car hadn't moved.

So much for fun run time because time was wasted "begging" marshals.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby NLVA200 » March 21st, 2013, 11:39 am

wagonrunner wrote:
I was shocked that I could head out the compound, come back almost 20 summin minutes later, and Ramon's car hadn't moved.

So much for fun run time because time was wasted "begging" marshals.


For real.. Ramon ended up staying there quite some time, just waiting. I think he even volunteered to park his car again, marshal for his run group and then go back as the last person last to do his 3 runs, just to get the show on the road.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 Thanks to All

Postby Razkal » March 21st, 2013, 11:44 am

you guys are most welcomed. the event was enjoyable and very competitive imo...a good indicator of excitement to come further down the season. i enjoyed the SS runs, i just hope Chris and Moses know i gonna be on them like white on rice on the 7th

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby crazybalhead » March 21st, 2013, 12:34 pm

Sounds like allyuh needed a big mouth to embarrass people into marshalling :(

I didn't seem to have this problem last year.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby whizpig » March 21st, 2013, 2:18 pm

Marshaling has been for me a great way to observe the other drivers and learn lines, and if you are serious about competing in this sport you have to understand appreciate that. Marshaling is an integral part of this sport just as different courses at each event is an integral part.

I agree that the incident with refusal to marshal was BALLS!!! and with rado that the entire thing could and should be rethought, to ensure that what happened does not happen again, eg, hired marshals, while still allowing competitors to go out and marshal for learning purposes.

and lastly if member/competitors are marshaling an incentive as what was offered in the past or suggested above would be nice, but like pete i disagree with forcing, or punishing those that cannot/refuse to marshal, just reward those that do :)

oh and things like ensuring that marshals can get water, a chair, and an umbrella in addition to the flags should be a standard

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby wagonrunner » March 21st, 2013, 2:27 pm

chairs - take a plastic chair and go with it. Leave it there, last marshal at the spot brings it back.
umbrellas get damaged, water does carry a cost, then eeds a cooler and ice to pack it in, so more thing to tote........ Should these be added to the club's expenses? Or can competitors / marshals pack accordingly?

Asking from the perspective of one who has seen wind damaged umbrellas, and 1/2 full water bottles littering the compound.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby Ignorant Ignis » March 21st, 2013, 2:33 pm

:oops: :oops:

i normally marshal at every event ...... but when i finished my run group i had to inflate my tires and make some checks on the car ...... by time i was done the show was already on the road.

really wanna appologise for that

:oops: :oops:

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby pete » March 21st, 2013, 4:08 pm

wagonrunner wrote:chairs - take a plastic chair and go with it. Leave it there, last marshal at the spot brings it back.
umbrellas get damaged, water does carry a cost, then eeds a cooler and ice to pack it in, so more thing to tote........ Should these be added to the club's expenses? Or can competitors / marshals pack accordingly?

Asking from the perspective of one who has seen wind damaged umbrellas, and 1/2 full water bottles littering the compound.


It's only one case of 400ml water you need per event.. that's $25. Agreed on needing someone to purchase and a cooler to put it in. Maybe someone with a cooler could volunteer it for housing a few bottles of water for the marshals?

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 this Sunday !! 17th March

Postby Razkal » March 21st, 2013, 6:01 pm

amir, i hope you don't feel singled out by my post eh. i also had problems with my car during the day and if that was your situation, then it's understandable.
i just think we shouldn't have to resort to begging people to 'volunteer', i for one will feel embarrassed to know that i am available and able, but unwilling to marshall and have to be called by name from a list...like primary school.

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Re: CARS AUTOCROSS 1 - Sunday 17th March (Results added)

Postby ingalook » March 22nd, 2013, 1:55 pm

Sorry, fellas from the first group... I had some hard wuk to do on my car that kept me occupied right up until it was time to run (I was the guy whose feet were sticking out from under the red civic) - thanks again Devi for the time in your tent... Though Gen did wonder out loud "Why it have ah F-in Honda in mih tent?"

After I ran my car started to buck and play the fool... I had to take it out to the highway to sort it out, so I missed Marshall duty both times.

Marshalling is a cool scene though, you get a great view of the action, and you get to see where people are making their mistakes

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