TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Proposed 2014 rule changes

Official Solodex Forum -
Please visit www.carstt.com for more info on Autocross (aka Solodex)

Moderators: CarsTT, CARSTT SoloDex, 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20852
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby MG Man » October 8th, 2013, 10:43 pm

Where can members access the regs?

Advertisement
User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » October 8th, 2013, 11:02 pm

possibly the same place members can get questions answered. ie: not here.

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20852
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby MG Man » October 9th, 2013, 7:30 am

Deja vu

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9253
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby pete » October 9th, 2013, 11:23 am


User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9253
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby pete » October 9th, 2013, 12:07 pm

Ya know I never looked at the new rules for this year.

Traction control System - Aftermarket - 2 point penalty (Only aftermarket? does that refer to launch control? Is aftermarket traction control better in Autocross than stock TCS where available???)

V-TEC Controllers - Any - 2 point penalty
At the start of the rules they say that VTEC controllers won't affect the maximum power but will affect power delivery. Why isn't it "ALL PROGRAMMABLE ECU - 2 points"?

Alternate Gear Ratios - 3 point penalty
Really? 3 whole points for different gear ratios? Does this mean if I change gearboxes to one with different ratios I get these 3 points?

Upgraded brakes Calipers / rotors size increase - 2 point penalty
Seems Harsh, I'd say 1 point

Boost Controller - 3 points penalty
Also seems harsh. Does this mean that if I have a boost controller I can dyno the car on low boost and run high boost for competition?

I know that with a turbo car changing the boost levels may make a huge difference on the Dyno, so to would tuning.

I think there should be something in there about "fair play", that it is expected that persons will be honest when subjecting there car for testing that if they make improvements will notify the executive and can make respective changes to classification. I personally would hope that people wouldn't lie about their modifications just to win.

At the same time I find the penalties for some of these modifications are rediculous as they don't really increase the performance the same as other modifications.

For example, lowering springs at 1 point vs coilovers at 3 points. Lowering springs alone would make a big difference, the difference from lowering springs to coilovers would not really be much.

Rear sway bar - 2 points. Not going to make twice the difference of lowering springs. I personally didn't notice any difference with mine.

LSD - 2 points. May allow you to put a little more power down but still wouldn't make as much difference as lowering springs.

User avatar
Razkal
2NRholic
Posts: 4838
Joined: May 30th, 2004, 2:33 am
Location: Gone Fishing...
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby Razkal » October 9th, 2013, 2:42 pm

holy hell...that's why i have 12 penalty points and obviously cannot be competitive in open or EPR, where by the rules, i should be.

2-rear sway bar
3-coilovers (front only)
3- boost controller
2- upgraded brakes
1- lowering springs (rear only)
1- intercooler

i think i'll ditch the boost controller next season, get an external wastegate with a 12psi spring (current boost level) and have 3 whole points to play with, i can also throw on the complete set of coilovers (front and rear) and lose the penalty for lowering springs.

since my brakes and sway bars are oem items that i've accumulated penalties for, i assume that upgrading them to bigger items won't affect the points i've already racked up on their behalf...correct? i'll still be on 8 penalty points, which STILL puts me in EPR though... sonoffabitch! :|

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » October 9th, 2013, 2:59 pm

the same rules that were agreed to and therefore strongly defended. :| what were you agreeing to?
guess that'll go on the same list as my two other questions.

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20852
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby MG Man » October 9th, 2013, 9:18 pm

Razzy if your brakes and sway bars are OEM, they will not attract points...unless I am grossly mistaken

User avatar
Razkal
2NRholic
Posts: 4838
Joined: May 30th, 2004, 2:33 am
Location: Gone Fishing...
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby Razkal » October 10th, 2013, 6:56 am

well...by oem, i mean oem FC3S (2nd gen) equipment. which my car was upgraded, using the front subframe and rear subframe. so i understand that the penalties will be given as they weren't original equipment on MY car.

my question lies in, if i were to ditch those oem bits and replace them with say....evo7 brembos (which happen to bolt onto FC hubs) and thicker rear sway and slightly thicker front sway...more penalties? or same?

User avatar
chris1388
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1607
Joined: January 24th, 2009, 9:38 pm
Location: Arima
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby chris1388 » October 10th, 2013, 7:10 am

I disagree with Pete's comment that coil overs vs springs is not a big difference. I personally switched from springs to coil over and there is a significant difference in handling of the car. In addition most coil overs allow u to bias the cars handling characteristics via dampening control which can't be done with springs alone. So 3 points is just IMO. I don't think I would be half as quick if I did not have my coil overs.

As it stands the only mod I have is the coil overs for 3 points. Next year I will be volunteering moving up in class again to EP and trying to win the championship.

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9253
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby pete » October 10th, 2013, 7:45 am

Raz, you shouldn't get points for lowering springs AND coilovers, it would just be the coilovers alone.

WRT the boost controller, good idea but I don't find people should have to endure such a stiff penalty when they're honest. How much power does the car make on the original wastegate pressure vs 12psi?

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20852
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby MG Man » October 10th, 2013, 9:56 am

Razkal wrote:well...by oem, i mean oem FC3S (2nd gen) equipment. which my car was upgraded, using the front subframe and rear subframe. so i understand that the penalties will be given as they weren't original equipment on MY car.

my question lies in, if i were to ditch those oem bits and replace them with say....evo7 brembos (which happen to bolt onto FC hubs) and thicker rear sway and slightly thicker front sway...more penalties? or same?



should be the same because your OEM bits really are the same as aftermrket upgrades
You replacing penalty point bits with penalty points bits.....so the car should remain with the same points

User avatar
pete
3NE 2NR Moderator
Posts: 9253
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 1:19 pm
Location: Cruisin around in da GTi
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby pete » October 11th, 2013, 2:11 pm

Question: If I dyno with nitrous can I use it for the year?

User avatar
Razkal
2NRholic
Posts: 4838
Joined: May 30th, 2004, 2:33 am
Location: Gone Fishing...
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby Razkal » October 11th, 2013, 4:03 pm

original power output at 7psi stock wastegate pressure was near 150whp..thats with 3" exhaust, intercooler, fuel pump and pressure regulator.

with boost controller set at 12psi, car now makes 200whp.

User avatar
Razkal
2NRholic
Posts: 4838
Joined: May 30th, 2004, 2:33 am
Location: Gone Fishing...
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby Razkal » October 11th, 2013, 6:11 pm

ust for info sake, i changed my boost controller since the CARS dyno day earlier this year...while on the dyno, doing the regular 3rd gear pull boost started spiking wayyyy past 12psi and my graph shows a run with 200whp and 220+ft/lb...while that was awesome, my lil turbo can't support that.

200whp is probably as much as i can get out of that oem turbo unit. so even if i crank the controller on race days, i most likely will just fry the motor really quickly.



what about water/meth injection? penalty points for that too? i intend to use the system at year's end, primarily for cooling purposes, my car runs into 180F temps way too easily. at the same safc2 'tune' the car's probably going to make maybe 10-12whp additional with the water/meth i estimate.

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » November 10th, 2013, 11:58 pm

Just got a PM from an interesting source.
SS / EP persons may get to look out for something in 2014.
A short wheel base, turbo charged, stock LSD and Nissan ATTESSA system.

which reminds me, any issue with vehicles with rear wheel steering assist (Nissan cars with HICAS, Honda Preludes, etc)?
Image

User avatar
adriano7910
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1585
Joined: December 28th, 2008, 6:38 pm

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby adriano7910 » November 12th, 2013, 9:16 am

the diff btn lowering springs and coilovers is huge. as i usually do ill show an example. stock lev non vtec very thin civic shock with lowering springs make little diff. the car still rolls and leans like a drunk.

while coilovers in civic i've driven body roll is almost gone and car handles sig better.... both had no sway bars or strut bars to assist.

User avatar
adriano7910
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1585
Joined: December 28th, 2008, 6:38 pm

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby adriano7910 » November 12th, 2013, 9:19 am

also i think higher classed base cars should have a greater first class bump penalty higher than the lower classes.

eg. i doubt lets say a stock wrx with oem lsd and coilovers (class bump) can compete against a (stock) sti on coilovers alone.

User avatar
moti
punchin NOS
Posts: 4792
Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 11:51 am
Location: looking for Perry!
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby moti » November 12th, 2013, 10:37 am

pete wrote:Raz, you shouldn't get points for lowering springs AND coilovers, it would just be the coilovers alone.




Was wondering the same when Razkal mentioned it above.

And just so that I don't get my panties in a bunch, stock LSD etc accumulates points?

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » November 12th, 2013, 11:33 am

adriano7910 wrote:also i think higher classed base cars should have a greater first class bump penalty higher than the lower classes.

eg. i doubt lets say a stock wrx with oem lsd and coilovers (class bump) can compete against a (stock) sti on coilovers alone.

but isn't the effect consistently inconsistent? that is all named mods do not improve all cars handling the same. or to similar competitiveness
moti wrote:stock LSD etc accumulates points
currently correct.
It is an advantage over a non equipped stock car.

User avatar
moti
punchin NOS
Posts: 4792
Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 11:51 am
Location: looking for Perry!
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby moti » November 12th, 2013, 11:58 am

wagonrunner wrote:
moti wrote:stock LSD etc accumulates points
currently correct.
It is an advantage over a non equipped stock car.



But I don't comprehend.
Bear with me here, but it's stock.

So if I were to change it to some "brand" name although it does the same as the stock version would that add more points?
Or if I were to remove the LSD and weld a regular diff would that still accumulate points?

And why can't I just have two points instead of three for only front coilovers?


Thank god I will be on crappy F/Used tyres for now.

So how much points I looking at here?

Coilovers (front only)
Drop Springs (rear only)
Upper strut bar (front only)
Stock LSD

Non turbo.

ng357
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 232
Joined: August 15th, 2010, 5:32 pm

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby ng357 » November 12th, 2013, 4:00 pm

For sure the points for shock upgrade and Coilover should need be the same as It is now. Advantages are more in coilovers surely.

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » November 12th, 2013, 4:04 pm

stock car vs stock lsd car vs aftermarket lsd car.

imagine the same model car. in those three trims.
where would the advantages be present?

User avatar
MG Man
2NRholic
Posts: 20852
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 1:31 pm
Location: trying to make a cinco-moti sandwich

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby MG Man » November 12th, 2013, 4:12 pm

in the best driver

ng357
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 232
Joined: August 15th, 2010, 5:32 pm

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby ng357 » November 12th, 2013, 5:31 pm

Stock LSD and aftermarket LSD same driver same car wud make a difference in autocross? Sorry if its a stupid Q, but I don't think it will....... Correct me if I'm wrong

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » November 12th, 2013, 5:41 pm

I don't think you're wrong.

The determination was an LSD equipped car has an advantage over a non LSD equipped car.
doesn't matter OEM or aftermarket.
Hence points once it has LSD in current rules

User avatar
moti
punchin NOS
Posts: 4792
Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 11:51 am
Location: looking for Perry!
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby moti » November 12th, 2013, 7:34 pm

Yeah, but how much points would I accumulate with my current set up.

i.e.

Coilovers (front only)
Drop Springs (rear only)
Upper strut bar (front only)
Stock LSD

User avatar
wagonrunner
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12761
Joined: May 18th, 2004, 9:38 am
Location: Distancing myself from those who want to raid the barn but eh want to plant the corn.
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby wagonrunner » November 12th, 2013, 7:42 pm


ng357
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 232
Joined: August 15th, 2010, 5:32 pm

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby ng357 » November 12th, 2013, 7:43 pm

wagonrunner wrote:I don't think you're wrong.

The determination was an LSD equipped car has an advantage over a non LSD equipped car.
doesn't matter OEM or aftermarket.
Hence points once it has LSD in current rules


Ok well I think there will be an advantage but how much is dependent on a few factors.

User avatar
moti
punchin NOS
Posts: 4792
Joined: October 23rd, 2006, 11:51 am
Location: looking for Perry!
Contact:

Re: Proposed 2014 rule changes

Postby moti » November 12th, 2013, 7:54 pm

Great, that's 7 points.
Which means what? SS..........damn


Hate those points

Advertisement

Return to “CARS - Autocross (Solodex)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest