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Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 6th, 2014, 10:00 am

Maybe the facebook page might work?
Or AGM later this year.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby MG Man » October 6th, 2014, 10:03 am

which always brings me back to my argument: what's the point of carstt.com redirecting people here, if this forum is not an official forum?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 6th, 2014, 10:07 am

Heard there is a new site being built for CARS.

Or should that be "4cars"

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 6th, 2014, 11:01 am

I propose for 2015 as follows:

Cars should be based on ONLY power to weight ratio.
Only class bump should be tyres (R compound etc) or increased power.
Yeah yeah, man with coilovers and LSD will clock better times than a stock car in the same class.
WRONG, as a better driver will do better times in the stock car vs a novice or just a plain idiot in the modified one.
Either throw some cheap (in most cases) mods on your car or man up and gain better driving skills.

Too much crap in this current points system and we are not in the right place to adhere to FULL SCCA rules.

But the fight down will always ensue as after all men who race in car parks are kids.

Come to me next year with the same crap rules and I will race the Tiida whole year next year.
(I plan to anyway as the build will start in December for the Corolla)

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby MG Man » October 6th, 2014, 11:23 am

at the end of the day, if man fee the need to cheat to 'win' a cheap plastic trophy and feel they have a big piggy, then let them win....why take away the one shining thing in such a person's clearly otherwise sad and meaningless life?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 6th, 2014, 12:09 pm

LMAO. True. But in the end it really is a fun day at Dex and I would like to keep enjoying it.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby cinco » October 6th, 2014, 12:15 pm

moti wrote:LMAO. True. But in the end it really is a fun day at Dex and I would like to keep enjoying it.

fastest car in es most times is a cvt powered 1.5 non vtec civic
sooo Tiida in ES next year? i have rear discs to install that may push me into esp :(

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby MG Man » October 6th, 2014, 2:48 pm

that disc brake 'upgrade' is such bs
what happens if u buy a fused 323 with rear disc brakes?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 6th, 2014, 2:57 pm

Disc brakes will not make a difference in the stopping distance of a 323 or any stock car for that matter. Brake fade on the drum brakes will also not occur during autocross racing.

So installing the disc brakes will not assist in any way for faster times, but it would attract penalty points and maybe even a class bump? How stupid.

Also your hand brake / parking brake will actually grip less with the disc brake upgrade unless you have the hub that carries both shoe (for parking) and pad for hydraulic (foot brake).


Which draws me to my point raised higher up.
Power to weight or tyres should be the only class bump.
As we all know the difference great tyres can make on any car.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 6th, 2014, 3:18 pm

If anyone took interest in what I am saying, that same Subaru has jumped classes in drag and wind from the beginning of this year to now yet remains in the same class in solodex.....let the owner come and tell me that is not true.
There are other SS competitors here that staying quiet and who run in a much slower class that that same "SS" Subaru in drag and wind.
How is it a SS car in solodex is seconds ahead of the Other SS cars in drag and wind? The committee needs to wake up!!!!!
That Subaru running neck and neck with 300whp cars in drag and wind whom if they came solodex might be in EPR!
If the committee refuses to do anything the owner should grow a pair and move up to the correct class instead of cheating.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 6th, 2014, 3:31 pm

Why compare to Drag and Wind Chris?
When right here in solodex you can see the difference.
The Subaru's time is 2 seconds ahead of others in the same class, also his times are on par with that of EP and EP-R.

Not only him should grow a pair, but others in the SS class as well.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 6th, 2014, 4:42 pm

Yep it is obvious, just like it was obvious last time I pointed this out to committee members on another competitor who also competes in drag and wind and a blind eye was turned. Even the fellow ESP competitors at the time defended that car! When in the end the car was running in the wrong class as per the rules all along and would still be today if I didn't make a issue from 2 classes above.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby ng357 » October 6th, 2014, 10:08 pm

So...... admin allua check the car at all?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby wagonrunner » October 6th, 2014, 11:14 pm

moti wrote:I propose for 2015 as follows:

Cars should be based on ONLY power to weight ratio.
from viewtopic.php?f=28&t=530243&p=7480383&hilit=graph#p7480383
wagonrunner wrote:Lets say two vehicles of same model, so weight / suspension etc same, even same horsepower.
So by W/P rules they're in the same class, but this is the merged dyno graph.
Is there a difference in performance between car 1 and car 2?

Image

The two cars in the graph would perform the same ent? Same weight and HP after all.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby ng357 » October 6th, 2014, 11:56 pm

oh yeah that is a point I wanted to make.... why should it be power to weight with hp? Should it sensibly not be tq to weight instead?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby cinco » October 7th, 2014, 12:01 am

MG Man wrote:that disc brake 'upgrade' is such bs
what happens if u buy a fused 323 with rear disc brakes?

Exactly! When nareshsheep used to compete his car came factory with 4 wheel disc and i believe he was in es and his car is basically the same as mine cept he has a vvt and more horses.
If i can guarantee no class bump with disc brakes i would love to install them as my brake shoes need changing. Anyhow by time next year i will have rear disc and placed wherever.


Btw the way these rules are setup the best bang for buck would be to buy a factory typer civic and install a d17 non vtec you would decimate all and be classed in es cuz all the parts are factory

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby wagonrunner » October 7th, 2014, 12:24 am

cinco wrote:Btw the way these rules are setup the best bang for buck would be to buy a factory typer civic and install a d17 non vtec you would decimate all and be classed in es cuz all the parts are factory
which was the argument made from day one.
an evo 1- 3 t with a 2.2NA engine. torque. AWD. factory parts. ES / ESP depending on weight. pfft.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby cinco » October 7th, 2014, 12:30 am

A NA miata would be es classes too? Sounds like a plan since all i care about is trophies and dont care for the rest of these douches

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby ng357 » October 7th, 2014, 1:15 am

But we still getting beside the point Cus we cud have what ever rules and men go still cheat.
Admin should periodically ask men if they change anything and make checks also... at least...
Off topic again Lol :D when we getting to weigh?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Aaron 2NR » October 7th, 2014, 6:32 am

So many side discussions yet the initial query has not been answered

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 7th, 2014, 8:48 am

You guys realise that the Subaru in question would actually be in ESP without the coilovers right?

My argument at the start of the year is that the ESP PWR is TOO FLICKING WIDE!

it's from 14 to 20!

So if you have a civic at 2400lbs the range would mean you can have anywhere between 120hp and 165hp. Or as in this case, a 3300lb car with 220hp comes borderline in the class.

I kinda wonder how the car is 200lbs more than the wikipedia weight though..

IMHO, the PWR should be changed to be smaller for ESP, wider for SS and EP.

Currently GS - 30+
HS - 26 - 29.9 (No cars in this class really)
ES - 20 - 25.9
ESP - 14 - 19.9
SS - 11.5 - 13.9
EP - 10.1 - 11.4
EPR - 8.5 - 10
Open - Under 8.5

I think a better range would be:
HS - 25 +
ES - 19 - 24.9
ESP - 15 - 18.9
SS - 13 - 14.9
EP - 10.5 - 12.9
EPR - 9.5 - 10.4
Open - Under 9.5

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 7th, 2014, 9:00 am

Image

This just a graph of a 2400lb car PWR as it increases from 90 hp to 270 hp to give an idea why the ranges need to get smaller as the power increases..

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Aaron 2NR » October 7th, 2014, 9:16 am

3300lbs seem very inaccurate...i have a 2006 which is the heaviest GDB chassis and this is my actual weight below...

the specs say the 2002 has a Curb weight of 1,390 kg (3,064.4 lb)

Does anyone from Cars have evidences of the vehicle weight? or did we just let the members give an estimate?? I recall paying at the beginning of the year to weigh and up to today i have not been informed when it would be.....


Image

i was given this picture by a member of said executive who did not want to be called but take a look below....

wonder what is that little device in blue above the air filter......

adjustable shock top mounts...have me wondering if it infact coil overs??? but should these not carry a penalty since you can get more adjustments because of this

Image

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby MG Man » October 7th, 2014, 9:30 am

You really expect to get a proper response?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 7th, 2014, 9:37 am

EH, my Corolla only made 90WHP.
So the BIG power fellas can fight up with the PWR-WGT Ratio.
I will just try to reduce weight.
Although I tempted to increase power at years end, which may put me in SS...stupes.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 7th, 2014, 9:48 am

Aaron 2NR that blue unit you speak of is not a boost controller dan.
It is actually a dimmer switch for the headlights.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Aaron 2NR » October 7th, 2014, 9:50 am

:| a vacuum line going to the light switch? interesting...

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 7th, 2014, 9:53 am

Aaron 2NR wrote::| a vacuum line going to the light switch? interesting...



HiD's get hot too :lol:

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 7th, 2014, 9:59 am

Subaru engines look real confusing.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby ng357 » October 7th, 2014, 10:06 am

Oh bacchanal!

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