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Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

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Ted_v2
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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Ted_v2 » October 7th, 2014, 1:19 pm

How about everybody race one vehicle? And see whose the Bess driver?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby MG Man » October 7th, 2014, 4:17 pm

That's how the overall championship is decided

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 7th, 2014, 5:14 pm

Pete i really ain't understand you na....after all that is said your really coming now to say the car is a ESP car???? You serious?

Yes if you take what the owner saying and calculate you get that bout oh gosh man you really believe that car doing 170whp NOW????! And 3300lbs weight....I have looked at specs from an official jdm catalog and NO Subaru impreza weighs that much....olatunji mussbe weigh with 3 bags of
Cement in he trunk.

My query is that the car is not an SS car NOW regardless of what it was.....as Aaron said no weighing was done this year so I am sure the 3300lbs quoted was a "how much you feel the car weigh"....

The Subaru running 55 second class in drag and wind now and other SS cars doing 57-58.....Aaron cars doing in excess of 300whp..same Subaru....and that car in question stick up on it in the same dnw class...and you Pete coming now to tell me this is a ESP car after all the points brought fought ?????

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby kamakazi » October 7th, 2014, 5:14 pm

Do camber plates incur points

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby SR » October 7th, 2014, 6:33 pm

I remembered being penalised years ago because the replacment carb on a 910 bluebird had "holley" written on it......... no matter it was just a replacment carb and not a performance carb for that size engine

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 7th, 2014, 6:51 pm

You people only asking if this incur points n that incur points....the rules are posted above in the stickies read it! If people were more familiar with the rules and the exec would adhere to and enforce the rules we would have less problems

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Dave-ve » October 7th, 2014, 8:22 pm

Car in question was properly scrutinized. MBC was not connected. Coilovers contributed to the class bump to SS. Driver says the MBC is only used in D&W.

The rules are not perfect and they do need review. Personally, I believe a car straight out of the showroom should not have any penalties attached. With regards to undeclared mods, there is little that can be done to avoid this. We depend on the honesty and sportsmanship of racers to declare their mods to class their cars.

Full scruteenering on race day is simply not possible. There is not enough people or time to get this done before the start of competition. Remember the people who are checking the cars also have to prep their own cars and walk the course before the start of competition.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 7th, 2014, 9:01 pm

First of all thanks for the response dave, apparently nobody else from the exec interested.

So let me get this straight, this man running a boost controller and running it for drag and wind but disconnecting it for every dex?

The rules clearly state, if a car HAS a boost controller it IS penalized because people can claim all sorts of things at the dyno and then do differently on race day. If the subaru has a boost controller it HAS to be penalized else remove it all together from the car. You all talking about taking long to scrutineer but then saying men verifying his boost controller not hooked up??
If it on the car is POINTS talk done else remove it from the car.

My query is the car has been modified in what way I do not know but it has changed since start of year to now and no one from solodex is willing to observe this and pose a query so I am doing this.

From what I hearing, if the owner is being honest....then:

1.) His car heavier than any other subaru impreza, being 3300lbs
2.) Nothing has changed on the car power wise from start of year to now so it is currently doing 173whp
3.) It transforms for drag and wind events and is able to run with a subaru that is LIGHTER than 3300lbs and has over 300whp and in addition be 2-3 seconds faster than other SS solodex cars that run DNW.
4.) God in his passenger seat to allow #3
5.) The car is then de-tuned to exactly 173whp for solodex so that it can be a ESP car and then SS with penalty points.

The owner probably feel people born yesterday.....maybe the exec but not me.

I paying the protest fee and more to see that car dyno at 173whp and weight on the solodex scales at 3300lbs in FULL race mode with the tires he races on and the amount of gas he races with.

If after this this car is found to be a legal ESP car then a SS car with penalty points, I rest my case. BUT I will start assisting in scrutineering and I will take the time to ensure that particular car is unchanged.....because this is flat out ridiculous.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby MG Man » October 7th, 2014, 9:29 pm

This forum is a woft re getting an official response

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby wagonrunner » October 7th, 2014, 11:14 pm

pete wrote:Subaru engines look real confusing.
Ditto.

What is the purpose of that intake scoop in relation to that air filter?
this was designed in an aquarium orr?
The Subaru running 55 second class in drag and wind now and other SS cars doing 57-58.....Aaron cars doing in excess of 300whp..same Subaru....and that car in question stick up on it in the same dnw class...
nothing but praise for this new batch of self driving cars yes.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby ng357 » October 8th, 2014, 12:23 am

exec can the scales be present for the next event? I want to weigh my car and the subby Lol cud weigh IF he comes... but I hope after all this the car would come and clear his name..... or just prove accusations correct what ever the case may be.

All in all the car did transform from the first event not speaking about driving alone. The drive may have improved but certainly it has gotten faster.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby wagonrunner » October 8th, 2014, 1:03 am

it have other threads in this forum? doh make joke
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=595351

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby ng357 » October 8th, 2014, 2:10 am

Blessings

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Ted_v2 » October 8th, 2014, 8:00 am

i have a good paragraph post to make, but na. It not even making sense.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 8th, 2014, 8:18 am

Chris.. again I'll say this whole problem arises out of the ESP class being too wide. SS is mostly made up to ESP cars of varying power that have been bumped up to SS because of suspension modifications. As there is such a large gap in PWRs then you can have a wide range of cars fitting into ESP.

Your car is what, 2100lbs and 1115bhp? So PWR of 18.26?
Moses is 2400lbs and 160bhp? So PWR of 15?
Even if the subaru weight is say 3100lbs and 220bhp, that still puts the PWR at 14.09 and it falls in ESP.

You wouldn't expect a 4wd car with good tyres, good suspension, good driver and a better PWR to do better times on a fairly open course like we had Sunday?
You haven't even been running your car in SS spec as you've been running on street tyres and you beat the WRX this year at a couple events.

No matter what we do, some car will probably fall somewhere close to the edge of a PWR and may post better times than the other cars but maybe if we make the gap smaller it wouldn't be such a large advantage.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby kjaglal76v2 » October 8th, 2014, 8:37 am

i say is ttasa alone does have dem.kinda baccanal

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 8th, 2014, 8:48 am

Pete point taken

But the car in question is flat out cheating and I am going I prove it. It have no way on earth that car is 173whp. There is video evidence of that car holding on a car that's doing 12 seconds on the quarter mile it have no way Pete no way.

That car also went from rwd to awd and nobody know....money has been spent and lots changed on the car and it hasn't been declared.

The owner post in this very thread and claim the car don't have a boost controller...next thing Dave saying it has one and it does be disconnected for solodex. If you want to play dumb Pete and think that car as it is now is a ESP car you go strong.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Ignorant Ignis » October 8th, 2014, 9:08 am

chris .... if its disconnected then he cannot be given points for it.

once the protest fee is posted he will have to hit the dyno

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby iDynamic » October 8th, 2014, 9:19 am

This is the reason why I haven't been to dex in almost 8 months , the classing is unfair and kills the competitiveness .

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby moti » October 8th, 2014, 10:01 am

So from my understanding, that WRX was a ESP car and due to suspension mod he went up to SS?
Are you guys mad?

So you saying that a 4WD "173WHP" car should be in the same class as a RWD 90WHP car?
hahahahahaha

Go brave fellas, looks like St.Anns hospital is the one running this club and hosting autox events.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 8th, 2014, 10:18 am

iDynamic, what class were you running in?

We really do need to find a way to classify cars as best as possible to make it as fair as we can.

However, no matter how fair we make it, if someone comes with a stock car that falls towards the bottom of a particular class in power to race against a lightly modified (even shock and spring upgrade)that is up at the top of the class in power, they're going to post slower times if the driver skill is the same or close.

Also, different cars are suited to different courses. This weekend maybe the course suited the subaru better than normal and he was able to win by two seconds, in a tight windy course the wheelbase and poor turning circle hurt it and it does slower times.

To say that he only won because you think his car is now making a little more power and has dropped to SS is really a bit unfair. Lodge the protest, put the car on the dyno and go look at all the car has on it.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 8th, 2014, 10:32 am

moti wrote:So from my understanding, that WRX was a ESP car and due to suspension mod he went up to SS?
Are you guys mad?

So you saying that a 4WD "173WHP" car should be in the same class as a RWD 90WHP car?
hahahahahaha

Go brave fellas, looks like St.Anns hospital is the one running this club and hosting autox events.


4wd cars get a bigger penalty when working out the BHP used for the classifications.
I believe FWD/RWD you multiply the whp by 1.15
AWD multiply by 1.25
Maybe RWD should be penalised even less as they are more difficult to control? (suggestion)

Anyway, you're comparing apples with oranges. Your 90whp car weighs.. 2300lbs? So PWR of 22.222' lands it in ES class, not the same class as the stock WRX.

If you then go and throw on a ton of parts the car gets bumped to ESP or even higher, this happened to Ignorant Ignis in the past, his ESP base car ended up way in EP on race tyres.

*note* I'm not saying I think a WRX should be in ESP - I had previously said that the range RIGHT NOW is way too wide for ESP and should be reduced. Every year the issue of the rules pops up and people get upset but in the end nobody shows up to AGMs or EGMs to try and correct it.

I'm SURE the club wants to try to make the racing fair for everyone but we need ideas how to make it more fair and we need members to come out and vote on it and get it done for the following years events.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby Ignorant Ignis » October 8th, 2014, 10:40 am

the classifications will never suit everybody ...... the thing is the club doesn't want to end up with 50 different classes.

but pete is right ... no one shows up to agm meetings when the opportunity to make any real change to the rules is available

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby SR » October 8th, 2014, 10:45 am

Once a device is physicaly installed in a car then it must be counted ......it removes all doubt from it being disconnected during inspection and connnecred back for racing as i doubt cars are inspected as soon as they come off the finish line..... my opnion as someone who writes rules for international competition in another automotive sport... we use the same guidline when it comes to batteries

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby kliq » October 8th, 2014, 12:34 pm

I think my car (Vitz RS) may needs a class bump...... I haven't dyno'd but I installed an aftermarket lightened flywheel when I changed my clutch. Car doesn't feel faster but the car seems to have better throttle response which may show in the dyno results. My power/weight ratio was already border line ESP so if/when I dyno I will inform the relevant people.

I understand the benefits of a sway bar but I don't think it necessary to earn a penalty point for a stock sway bar. However an aftermarket sway bar installed should be penalised.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby pete » October 8th, 2014, 12:37 pm

I don't think your car would have been borderline ESP..

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby kliq » October 8th, 2014, 3:53 pm

Sorry I meant borderline ES power/weight ratio.

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 8th, 2014, 5:02 pm

Amir read the rules, the rules outline the boost controller as a entirely separate penalty, if says once it is on the car you are awarded points....it says nothing about having it disconnected. Furthermore we already catch the man trying to dodge because he claim the car don't have NONE....men post pics now one thing lead to another now heart what we arguing bout....if it
CONNECt or not.

Pete all how you dodging the fact that car not correctly classed whether it still falling in current class or not. You outlining all sort of variable to pick up for the man if the power is 220 if the weight is 3100 then saying 4wd used a diff factor for calculating bhp when I have told you all this car was 2wd when it was on the dyno and is now 4wd...so what you saying even tho the car is 220bhp instead of 173 and 3100 instead of 3300 that make it all ok? The man flat out be dishonest and this is why it so easy to cheat now because people like you will allow it way too easy and no issue would have been made if I didn't open my mouth. Same thing with the mx3....that would be running dex all now if you had your way Pete after you insist is a ESP car and had it beating you self I had to go and show the committee is not a ESP car after a blind eye was turned all year!!!

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby wagonrunner » October 8th, 2014, 5:39 pm

:rofl: oh irony, is that you?
Or is it karma?

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Re: Incorrect classing of cars at Solodex

Postby chris1388 » October 8th, 2014, 5:51 pm

Karl I Fedup tell you just say my name when you throwing those lil boy comments, I urge you to go back in time and prove where I ever raced outside of the current rules or past rules to win and hence make what I am speaking of now ironic or "karma".

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