Car classifications -> How to test for 2007

[X2]

I don't agree to solely base on hp... weight to hp yea, but not just hp.

Also suspension mods make a MUCH bigger difference in dex... so wtf is a quarter mile time worth ? You rig up a civic with kick ass suspension, but a stock engine, then put it up against a stock suspension civic with a turbocharged engine and odds are, the civic with the hot suspension will own it.

Set up a meeting oh it nah ?

[wagonrunner]

agreed. X2, thats why we trying to devise a test, that determines car's performance and handling. thats how the figure 8, and fastest circle ideas were sugested

[pete]

and this is my point...
if the same car auto and manual with "stock" are not in the same class then something is off...
is the manual faster? yes, is it an advantage, no...

Of course it's an advantage

Why do i say that?

In drags, if you are running 14.7(auto) and the next man run 14.1(GB), the two of you are in the group, given that the motors are stock with no power adders. right...
so what is the slower car to do, cry, and say he can never beat the same car with a GB, and ask to change the rules of class? OR add NOS, and not tell anyone? OR go and look for all the ways to make HP while tryin' to stay stock???
you may want to fight and say, if the next guy do all the things i do, i still can't beat him, but you know that if he did he would be running 13s, he will now change classes, or stay in the same class and "hold" the car back...

Drags is totally different. If a car will run a best time of 14.7 the person would either run with that as his dial time or run in a higher bracket. Also, there's no reason for not telling anyone about a mod cuz all that matters is if you're in a 14 second bracket you don't go under 14 seconds.

i hope you guys see the big picture...

The drag rules as it is, allows for both car and driver to be assessed as if they were one...as in the case above, the car is given two classes, it is stock and given a time in which to run. The driver is also assessed in his ability to keep within the time so you have the car being physically assessed as a stock vehicle with no power add-ons and car and driver being assessed together set by the time the car runs. So even if your car is capable of running a faster time, driver skill is now tested in its ability to run a lower time. Both car and driver are given the ability to grow.

If drags was done "heads up" as solodex is there would have to be some form of classification but as it's mostly bracket racing the organisers don't have that headache.

This is something I say should also be adopted in Solodex. Too much emphasis is placed on car specs and not enough on driver skill.

A good example would be Chris and the Ignis vs. me in a very well working B-18 C5. I'm pretty sure that Chris will do slightly better times than me or even in the case that I do a better time, it may be a second or two faster. The fact is Chris has better skill, even if the vehicles are unmatched, our times would be very close, therefore in a sport such as Solodex where we like to say it is 90% driver and 10% car, the rules should reflect that very same thing.

What YOU think?

The rules DO reflect the same thing. It's 90% driver so the classification is used to try to remove any advantage one driver may have over another so that the difference in times is a proper display of which drivers have more skill than others. Do you think the drivers should be penalised for being good or a kinda performance handicap based on the results of each solodex? I don't really think that's such a good idea..

[saltydog]

if you always win then you should go up a class, i know this sounds like classing the driver, but where is the fun in winning all the time? to be fair to other drivers if your car wins its class and would be competitive in a higher class then go there. to be a better driver you should push to the limit of machine and man. just my 2 cents

[k.c.151]

^^^ i totally agree... dat's y i've said from the beginnin of this year championship if i win my class confidently i wud move up to a higher class...
any mods i do 2 my car wud improve car performance and i may have to do some re-adjustin skill wise but it's all good...
it also improves the spirit of competition...man on point---mr.fixables...

[kes_vtec]

u missunderstand, what i am sayin' is test both driver and car, drags and dex are not the same dahhhh... i am not even sayin, use the same rules,
just look at wah the class are set-up...
even wagon as you said, your gearbox drops your time, yes, it will, what do you do when a car and driver run of a higher class, runs times of the class lower or even the other way around. as for the "penalised" thing, i don't see where your goin with that...
as it is, every one is talking about "the cars" class, and nothing about drivers, that was why i was talking about drags, and only...
i hope that clears it up.....

[kes_vtec]

^^^ i totally agree... dat's y i've said from the beginnin of this year championship if i win my class confidently i wud move up to a higher class...
any mods i do 2 my car wud improve car performance and i may have to do some re-adjustin skill wise but it's all good...
it also improves the spirit of competition...man on point---mr.fixables...

this help shows what i am talking about....
and a format... note the word "format", is something that should stay...

[saltydog]

The rules for this year as agreed at the AGM were that if a vehicle was protested and in the view of the protest committee was wrongly classified then this vehicle would be tested by 2 experianced drivers at the end of that day of compeitiion. The average speed would then be taken of both runs and the time achieved would be the class that the vehicle would be put in. In other words if ESP was 1st place 80 sec and lastr place 85 sec and the tested car camin in with an average of 84 then ESP it would be. However no one has officialy protested anyone's car. If you have a problem and think it is unfair speak to the protest committee and sort it out. I however think that some people need to move up, some because they are good drivers and can make it higher uo the food chain and others cause their cars give them an advantage. Either way they should move up a class. As for me I moved to EP cause if I lose well the other guys should have won with their fast cars right...more bragging rights

[Mini]

so how ar eyou caterign for ppl who for instance back off timing and dyno dere car and den turn it back up
or ppl with vtec controller sadn fuel manaegment sytsems who de tune their car and jack it back up to race>?

mark the distributor point.. and tell them it hadda be same place on race day

but pete... dynoing a car for grouping is useless without the car's actual weight

also.. who is going to pay for the dyno session? CARS? Yuh can't ask the competitors to pay to find their grouping... that's the responsibility of the management.

crix...your car is only in class because of the 1/4 mile timing rule. old solodex classification based on power to weight (manufacturer's specs) had your car in ESP.

[Silvermike]

well i just found out i lost 40 pts for not making a meeting and cuz of that i can not come 1st, nor 2nd. so classification of cars is the least of my issues.


1/4 mile time is useless to classify a car for solodex course. its using apples to judge oranges. so is power to weight. its just to general. it will separate an evo form a civic, but not a gti from an sir.

the figure 8 sounds good... get a standard driver.... a good driver, kirk for instance. to drive all cars on the course and post a time. then group times and base classes on that. that tests both engine, suspension and chasis independent of driver.

[MadCrix]

mini dat is becasue as i keep tellign EVERYBODY

MY CAR FREAKING SLOW

and mike.... i eh want no body drivign my car

well unless is devi

[kes_vtec]

mini dat is becasue as i keep tellign EVERYBODY

and mike.... i eh want no body drivign my car

well unless is devi

case in point classing the car and not the drivers.... "do both" y does someone have to drive your car to put it in a class... if the driver of the car, CAN'T drive at the level of others in the same class.

but all thing is sure, hp and 1/4mile time only can't not be used

[MG Man]

I however think that some people need to move up, some because they are good drivers and can make it higher uo the food chain

rubbish
u do not penalize a driver for driving skill........if I have the slowest car in my class but I drive better than the cars in that class, and better than the guys in the class above mine, why must I move up? Where will be the challenge for the other guys imn my class to improve? This does not apply to me, but I have seen attempts to penalize drivers with superior skills, just so they should 'give the other guys a chance'....whats the point

[Silvermike]

wham crix? u and devi have something going on we dont know about?

[MadCrix]

boy doh come between me and my outside man

[Yorkshirelass]

this is a lot of interesting discussions here. We have a quarterly meeting coming up (will check date and let u know). Let's bring all this to the table and sort it out.

[Racefan]

I've read the comments and here's my $0.02
These aren't new challenges, but nothing is set in stone either.
How about thinking outside the box for a moment?
1. Is it possible to offer an incentive to move up to a higher class rather than penalize ppl?
2. Is it possible to use a similar system as drags where faster combinations of driver&car run together without regard to the car's Hp or suspension etc?
3. Can we award championship pts across classes and ppl vie for an overall place rather than dominating a class? That is, faster can mean more points and it really does not matter what class you compete in? Sure this sounds unfair to the slower cars, but we have bright ppl here in T&T, can we develop something that's fair while removing the complicated and difficult to prove under the hood mods from the equation?

[k.c.151]

well i just found out i lost 40 pts for not making a meeting and cuz of that i can not come 1st, nor 2nd. so classification of cars is the least of my issues.
1/4 mile time is useless to classify a car for solodex course. its using apples to judge oranges. so is power to weight. its just to general. it will separate an evo form a civic, but not a gti from an sir.
the figure 8 sounds good... get a standard driver.... a good driver, kirk for instance. to drive all cars on the course and post a time. then group times and base classes on that. that tests both engine, suspension and chasis independent of driver.

i agree totally...as far as losing pts for being absent from briefings i am in d same bracket...i however brought up the issue with higher personnel and some re-adjustment would be implemented for the new year...just remember that pts are tallied from 4 events, briefings, etc... so if u were in at least 4 briefings for the year u shud not have much 2 worry about...

[Mini]

3. Can we award championship pts across classes and ppl vie for an overall place rather than dominating a class?

ES cars sometimes run the second fastest time of the day... so this makes sense.

[wagonrunner]

Ah, back to how it was in me rookie days. consistent 4th, behind cars that moved out into faster classes.

[kes_vtec]

well i really new, so i not fighting no more

[saltydog]

"........if I have the slowest car in my class but I drive better than the cars in that class, and better than the guys in the class above mine"

No praise like self praise....... if you winning all the time cause you are the best driver then where is the competition for you to become even better, or is that not possible

[Yorkshirelass]

I don't think that was a coment about himself, but a generalised statement.

[MadCrix]

aye 2 ah allyuh take allyuh marital confrontations offline nah.. discuss dat in yuh bedroom pls lol