Car Audio Diminishing Returns

[kamakazi]

Good Day

Let's say the user/customer is planning to mainly listen to audio from MP3s encoded up to 320Kbps...At what point does the money spent on audio equipment not result in any substantial gain in audio quality (reproduction)?

Similar to wanting to watch blu-ray movies (usually 720p-1080p), all you really need is a 1080p Television.
While a 4K television is capable of better quality, if the source material is limited...it will look the same on both.

Applied to car audio...if the source material is limited, do you or have you ever run up against a limit where money spent does not improve quality?.

[SR]

You will need to factor in other features for the price. Which might be a better comparison

[kamakazi]

Car audio is new to me and I might have phrased the question poorly.
I'm coming from this based on computer HI-Fi audio. The following items help in accurately recreating source material; a good sound card, a set of monitor headphones and a headphone amp.
Now a setup for $150US might get you 95% of the way there (accuracy)
A setup costing $500US might get you 98% of the way there
Chasing those final percent points could potentially cost > $5000US

Albiet the car is a more challenging environment...I see a lot of equipment available for car audio and wonder how much of these are chasing the final percentage points vs items that are required to get you to the 95-98% range.
I believe at some point individuals woudn't be able to tell the difference between a system that costs 10 times as much as another at the same listening volume level.
There might also be a point where the music that is intended to be played through a car system is degraded to the point where the more expensive system cannot show the shortcomings of the cheaper system.

(Note the Values above are just used to demonstrate a point)

Car audio just has so much more options for everything.



As a nice example from Pioneer
there 80PRS costs around $250US VS the 99PRS which costs around $1200US

[SR]

Neither of those pioneer units makes sense to the average user who is not an audiophile. If you are close to one then the 80prs. I own both. Most units the specs you look for would be 4 volt out. And then maybe the built in eq capabilities then internal xover. Time alignment makes no sense for most average users.

[kamakazi]

I just used the pioneer units as an example...because i am of the opinion that while they are different, the 99prs is chasing that final percentage of quality; quality which might be detected by equipment, but maybe not by the user

Thank you for responding

[ruffneck_12]

At what point does the money spent on audio equipment not result in any substantial gain in audio quality (reproduction)?

responding to this as seen through the eyes of the average consumer. Not an audiophile (before yall purists jump on my case lol)

a $500 pioneer deck has a decent enough DAC for the average user. (16 bit @ 44.1khz is overkill for a car environment when you have to compete with all the other sources of noise imho)

A pair of pioneer coaxials (dunno the price) works well too.

Amps : Once it's not pyramid/xxx you'd be fine.

No external crossover needed if the amp/deck has enough features.
No large multiband EQ needed if speakers/subwoofer box/amps were chosen to work with each other. A 5 or 7 band EQ in the deck would be good enough to sort out issues.

subs: any of the lower lines of the big brands do well in a properly calculated enclosure ($300-$700 sub alone)

This is the best bang for your buck range, anything over this is overkill for the average user IMO

[sMASH]

I use my radio to mask the thunderous noise from a bad bearing.

[ruffneck_12]

I use the belt squeals to mask my cries of anguish

[roger]

Good Day

At what point does the money spent on audio equipment not result in any substantial gain in audio quality (reproduction)?

i believe that audio quality can always be improved. Especially in the reproduction of it. However, the limit of diminishing returns really can only be decided by the individual. One may spend USD150 to get to as you say 95% and USD500 to get to 98%, but for some people the chase for the final 2% is worth it, and for others its not.

One would have to be a serious competitor or an audiophile grade listener to put significant effort into the final 2%. Most persons may be even able to differentiate between 75% and 95% much less 98%. You may reach your 100% and think its nirvana, and when i listen i detect flaws, and rate it at 60%

Once the listener is satisfied with the reproduction, satisfied with his financial input, i think that limit is reached. I am a fan of maximizing both budget and equipment, and have competed with some of the cheapest competition systems against some pretty costly ones. I got my arse whoopped many times and was happy with it because i was not prepared to invest like the better sounding competitors were.

maximize your budget, maximize your equipment. If you are not satisfied spend more. if you are well then you 100.

[kamakazi]

Thanks for the response Roger

This is the article I remembered reading sometime ago that got me thinking.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

Their conclusion after blind testing different devices which cost US$2, $190, $290 and $2000 that "Anything Above $2 Buys More Features, Not Better Quality"

Headphone environments are definitely easier to replicate than car audio environments and with that there is some consensus regarding equipment that has great sound quality. Being that the car audio environment is so vast, recommendations for sound quality are indeed varied.
There are still some ideas that seem to be agreed upon though, but sometimes the info seems so hard to get or quantify.

Ideas that I think are agreed upon (well on the internet anyway)
1. Sound Deadening /Dampening helps the listening environment
2. High Quality Head unit is a must
3. Component speakers are advised in the front to help with sound stage
4. Quality power and ground are needed (this includes a whole lot but at a base level upgrading the wires that "ground" the vehicle and the power lead from the alternator)
5. Calibration is required

I am always open to suggestions but this is all i got so far...

[TK!]

Ideas that I think are agreed upon (well on the internet anyway)
1. Sound Deadening /Dampening helps the listening environment
2. High Quality Head unit is a must
3. Component speakers are advised in the front to help with sound stage
4. Quality power and ground are needed (this includes a whole lot but at a base level upgrading the wires that "ground" the vehicle and the power lead from the alternator)
5. Calibration is required

Is this James? New to car audio? If so, lol... might've been a while but some princples remain true; such as the points you've mentioned.

To get to that point, say - in a hilux, would cost approx 15,000 TT. And lets say that gains you a solid 95%. To achieve another 2.5% might cost as much and a further 1.25% also as much. Which answer your question about diminishing returns.

YOU have the power to decide where you want to be. Just listen to a few systems (not the sales pitch) and decide what things you heard that were pleasing. Then make a list and run it by your installer/sales person and see if it makes sense to them. Doesnt have to be a shopping list but can be a functional req list.

eg- i liked the bass from that.. but the highs were too sharp..... i liked the vocals from this but the system is too quiet....etc

Of course.. attending an IASCA competition can expose you to a lot of good sounding cars. most competitiors are friendly and will allow you to hear their car.

[kamakazi]

Thanks man...I am not James BTW.

Have any idea when the next competition would be

[SR]

August

[kamakazi]

So i found this old article online and this video clip which speaks about the catch-22 of audio reproduction and high end audio

https://www.stereophile.com/reference/176/index.html

[youtube]https://youtu.be/4Uhkmvd3XnI?t=8m38s[/youtube]

[kamakazi]

How well can you really hear audio quality
https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

[ruffneck_12]

How well can you really hear audio quality
https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

Is how I almost consistently chose all 128kbs MP3s over the wavs/320s tho

Maybe it just has a characteristic sound that I like since all my favorite songs is limewire downloads from back in the day

[kamakazi]

Lol... It is an interesting test

[ruffneck_12]

I used an audio technica m50 headphones , and my DAC settings was 24bits @ 192Khz too eh

Rel overkill settings with a good headphones and I still perform bad. I need to retrain my ears yes. Long time I er listen with this headphones too