TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Strange loss of bass

(I.C.E.)In Car Entertainment - Mobile Audio and Video

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 3rd, 2019, 11:38 pm

Guys good day.
I got a ae90 toyota hatchback, the car is relatively old. I have always got problems with bass with the car, over the pass few years i increased power(rockford, deaf bounce ect) and better subs (dd, sundown, atomic) with a upgraded electrical (xs power,bigger alternator) and well built boxes and the bass just doesnt sound right from outside the car even though i heard hatchbacks is notorious for bass. Guys with way less and worst electrical sounds better/louder.
The car passed through a couple different installers and they all can't seem to find the issue.
This evening i was playing it a bit and i noticed that when the bass hits and air is forced out the port i felt air was escaping/leaking from under the rear tire,wheel well and through the cabin more on 1 side than the other also other parts of the cabin, under the car ect through holes maybe caused by rusting.
Can this be the problem for the loss of bass? Maybe lost in the compression or the little cabin gain? Any help is appreciated
Thanks in advance...attached is a pic of the car and current subs and placement
Screenshot_20190303-233709_Gallery.jpeg
Last edited by Jeremy09 on March 3rd, 2019, 11:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 4th, 2019, 2:01 am

Could be a leaky enclosure issue but it would be hard to tell what the problem really is without seeing the actual installation in person.
Subs require that sufficient air volume be available for displacement in order to achieve maximum loudness and depth, both inside the enclosures well as inside the vehicle. Generally speaking, the bigger the subwoofer, the more volume it will need inside the vehicle, and a hatchback doesn't have that much volume. I've seen a 8's outperform 12's because of the lack of available air for displacement.

what size subs are you using? as well as make and model and power driving them?
whats the design & specs of the enclosure you're using currently with the subs?
how does it sound with the trunk partially and fully open as opposed to closed?
can you remove the rear seat back rest and aim the subs into the cabin to see if that makes a difference?
can you borrow a sub and enclosure that performs the way you want and place it in your vehicles trunk to see if it sounds good or if it sounds similar to yours?

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 4th, 2019, 9:03 am

88sins wrote:Could be a leaky enclosure issue but it would be hard to tell what the problem really is without seeing the actual installation in person.
Subs require that sufficient air volume be available for displacement in order to achieve maximum loudness and depth, both inside the enclosures well as inside the vehicle. Generally speaking, the bigger the subwoofer, the more volume it will need inside the vehicle, and a hatchback doesn't have that much volume. I've seen a 8's outperform 12's because of the lack of available air for displacement.

what size subs are you using? as well as make and model and power driving them?
whats the design & specs of the enclosure you're using currently with the subs?
how does it sound with the trunk partially and fully open as opposed to closed?
can you remove the rear seat back rest and aim the subs into the cabin to see if that makes a difference?
can you borrow a sub and enclosure that performs the way you want and place it in your vehicles trunk to see if it sounds good or if it sounds similar to yours?
It started with a 12" atomic apocalypse in a 2.5cube box tuned 45hz on a rockford prime 1200.1, then i whet to a single 12" dd 712 2.5 cube box tuned to 42hz on a powerbass asa 1500.1, then to a double sundown sa 10 in a 2.5 cube box tuned to 40hz on a deaf bounce 2000.1. Each time boxes were built over, electrical is a 140amp alt, xs d 1200 infront and xp 3000 in rear, nvx 0 gauge ofc wire for runs and big three. I put my subs in a feilder and it was night and day difference on less power, i took the single 12 sub from the fielder and put it in the hatch on more power and it sounded softer. I also tried sub and port facing forward, up, rear, even presently the both sa10 face up with port back with same issue.
20181212_202910.jpeg
IMG-20190105-WA0006.jpeg

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 4th, 2019, 12:22 pm

well if you switched enclosures and the new box still sound anemic in yours, and your box sounds good in the other vehicle, it's not the box. it not sounding like an electrical power feeding problem either. 0 awg cable will allow for nuff current.
checked the stereo bass settings? did you check that the gains on the amp and preamp adjusted correctly?

i hate these kinda issues, but sometimes the simple things are the cause of these headaches. i say start from the power source & the deck and work your way back.

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 4th, 2019, 12:39 pm

88sins wrote:well if you switched enclosures and the new box still sound anemic in yours, and your box sounds good in the other vehicle, it's not the box. it not sounding like an electrical power feeding problem either. 0 awg cable will allow for nuff current.
checked the stereo bass settings? did you check that the gains on the amp and preamp adjusted correctly?

i hate these kinda issues, but sometimes the simple things are the cause of these headaches. i say start from the power source & the deck and work your way back.
Deck is a 80prs...all gains were set using the dd1. Thats why it strange to me, the only think i could possibly think of is something with the trunk itself. It rattles alot and bass just doesnt seem to travel out of the car. Inside sounds great but from outside it sounds as if everything is compacted inside. There is not pre amp, just cross over set on deck, and gains on amp...The wheel well has some holes and apparently the spaces where the back shocks are is leaking air... alot air comes through there when the sub is playing, not sure if that could be the problem

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 4th, 2019, 5:18 pm

there just may not be enough free air volume with the box in there.

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 4th, 2019, 6:30 pm

fix all the leaks first, then check. but that's odd, because those leaks would affect performance regardless of what vehicle the box is in.

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 4th, 2019, 6:47 pm

88sins wrote:fix all the leaks first, then check. but that's odd, because those leaks would affect performance regardless of what vehicle the box is in.
Its not leaks in the box...its leaks in the hatchback itself....its a bit rusty, has some holes and spaces in the trunk(wheel well ect..where the arrows point is where alot of air comes out when the sub..standing next to the car from outside you can feel air being forced through there
20190304_184656.jpeg

User avatar
fatboy slim
I LUV THIS PLACE
Posts: 1096
Joined: September 13th, 2013, 6:56 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby fatboy slim » March 4th, 2019, 7:18 pm

you may need to stop those leaks (some metal sheeting work required ) and dynamat the trunk


User avatar
fatboy slim
I LUV THIS PLACE
Posts: 1096
Joined: September 13th, 2013, 6:56 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby fatboy slim » March 4th, 2019, 7:42 pm

or buy a fielder :lol:

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 4th, 2019, 8:24 pm

fatboy slim wrote:or buy a fielder
Lol. But those leaks are the problem?

Gladiator
punchin NOS
Posts: 3693
Joined: April 20th, 2006, 9:43 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Gladiator » March 4th, 2019, 11:13 pm

On a serious note.... the problem could not be equipment related at all. It could be your hearing. As you listen to your system your hearing could get damaged and sensitivity in the LF range reduced so you think that you not hearing the bass.

This is a serious thing.... go do a hearing test and see if you having problems in that freq range.

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 5th, 2019, 4:48 am

Jeremy09 wrote:
fatboy slim wrote:or buy a fielder
Lol. But those leaks are the problem?

not likely

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 5th, 2019, 8:25 am

It was kicks when my cousin who had 1 10" on a boss 750 with 4 gauge wire, stock alt and ah single small water battery sounded the same as me when i had the 712 on the powerbass 1500.1 with my electrical upgraded.
All the equipment i had, it just seem like the sound doesn't travel out the vehicle well. Not sure if is the car but everybody keep saying hatchback is for music

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 5th, 2019, 9:25 am

who is this everybody that says that :lol:
one thing ppl tend to not play attention to, placement and acoustics are really important. a speaker can sound like crap in one location of a vehicle, and sound amazing in another location not for from where it initially was.

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 5th, 2019, 9:57 am

88sins wrote:who is this everybody that says that
one thing ppl tend to not play attention to, placement and acoustics are really important. a speaker can sound like crap in one location of a vehicle, and sound amazing in another location not for from where it initially was.
Like all them forums online when you google it

User avatar
L'Audi
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 275
Joined: February 17th, 2016, 3:05 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby L'Audi » March 5th, 2019, 10:39 am

Subs up, port up and make a baffle that seals off your subs from the trunk (so the look like they're sitting on a rear deck). You're welcome.

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 5th, 2019, 10:45 am

L'Audi wrote:Subs up, port up and make a baffle that seals off your subs from the trunk (so the look like they're sitting on a rear deck). You're welcome.
Thanks. I inboxed you

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 877
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Brian Steele » March 5th, 2019, 6:25 pm

fatboy slim wrote:you may need to stop those leaks (some metal sheeting work required ) and dynamat the trunk




Alas, no before & after measurements to show show successful all of that work was to improve the sound in the vehicle.

That's one of the main reasons why I find it difficult at times to take those videos seriously. It's like claiming a car will be faster if you use a different oil, but don't show any speed tests to confirm if that's true.

User avatar
Brian Steele
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 877
Joined: December 3rd, 2009, 5:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Brian Steele » March 5th, 2019, 6:38 pm

Jeremy09 wrote:It was kicks when my cousin who had 1 10" on a boss 750 with 4 gauge wire, stock alt and ah single small water battery sounded the same as me when i had the 712 on the powerbass 1500.1 with my electrical upgraded.


Going from a 750W amp to a 1500W amp adds only 3dB of output - something that can easily go unnoticed if efficiency is lost in other areas (e.g. subwoofer type / design, location in the vehicle, x-over settings, etc.).

Jeremy09 wrote: All the equipment i had, it just seem like the sound doesn't travel out the vehicle well. Not sure if is the car but everybody keep saying hatchback is for music


BTW, I think the other responders are missing what you're asking for here. It looks like you're not asking for more bass IN the vehicle, but more bass OUTSIDE of the vehicle. Looks like your vehicle is better designed than others for damping sound. if sound does not travel out the vehicle well, that typically also means that sound does not travel INTO the vehicle well. The best example I've seen of that was an old VW Polo - the owner had a 10" 4th order BP for bass, and at peak volume, with the doors closed and windows up, you'd swear that nothing more than the stock audio system was playing.

If you want to play bass in your vehicle for people outside of it (rather than inside of it), you may need to look into getting a vehicle with no cabin at all, e.g. a soft-top jeep. Of course, if you live in Trinidad, installing "big-pong" into a vehicle like that could lead to other issues :).

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 5th, 2019, 8:53 pm

That's the type of car incase anyone have experience with it
Screenshot_20190303-233709_Gallery.jpeg

randolphinshan
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1361
Joined: November 20th, 2013, 12:08 pm

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby randolphinshan » March 6th, 2019, 1:44 pm

OP do a body job first to fix the rust then see about bass. Get your priorities in order pallos.

User avatar
DJ Q
punchin NOS
Posts: 3371
Joined: February 21st, 2007, 9:09 am
Location: Awesome

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby DJ Q » March 12th, 2019, 8:58 am

I had this same phenomenon happen when I had my Rover.
Thousands of watts and nothing was traveling outside of the car.
And I was told the same thing that these hatchbacks were great for bass.

I had 2,000 RMS in bass, 0 AWG wiring, proper eletrical, no rattles... all the good stuff.

In my current car, I'm using one 5 channel amp and only about 200RMS is on the subwoofer and I'm vibrating everything around me.

It's weird

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 20th, 2019, 1:01 pm

Did u solved the problem?
DJ Q wrote:I had this same phenomenon happen when I had my Rover.
Thousands of watts and nothing was traveling outside of the car.
And I was told the same thing that these hatchbacks were great for bass.

I had 2,000 RMS in bass, 0 AWG wiring, proper eletrical, no rattles... all the good stuff.

In my current car, I'm using one 5 channel amp and only about 200RMS is on the subwoofer and I'm vibrating everything around me.

It's weird

User avatar
DJ Q
punchin NOS
Posts: 3371
Joined: February 21st, 2007, 9:09 am
Location: Awesome

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby DJ Q » March 21st, 2019, 7:29 am

Nope. Just had to accept it.
No matter what I did or how much power I used, sound hardly ever escaped the car.

User avatar
gt4tified
punchin NOS
Posts: 4480
Joined: May 13th, 2004, 3:17 pm
Location: not in de hood but under a hood

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby gt4tified » March 21st, 2019, 12:36 pm

There are hatchbacks and then there are hatchbacks. The design of your vehicle may have something to do with it, viz the size of enclosure. Remember if you're looking to gallery bass outside of the vehicle, your interior cabin is the final "enclosure".

If its one thing I've learnt from Big Bang Theory is how to approach problems as a science experiment. Make your vehicle and all the components the constant and the subwoofer enclosure the variable. If you could borrow a smaller, sealed high wattage subwoofer from a friend or family, try substituting it and see if there is any difference.

User avatar
88sins
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby 88sins » March 22nd, 2019, 8:18 pm

DJ Q wrote:Nope. Just had to accept it.
No matter what I did or how much power I used, sound hardly ever escaped the car.

Did you try it while the back seat was out of the vehicle aiming the subs into the cabin of the car while the box remains in the boot? basically using the entire air space inside cabin as air space available for displacement. if you haven't, not try it and see what happens. if it improves that means there's just not enough air available for displacement in the trunk with the sub enclosure in there.

and if that's the case you have a few options. more efficient subs in smaller enclosures, or sacrifice the back seat for bass

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 22nd, 2019, 9:20 pm

88sins wrote:
DJ Q wrote:Nope. Just had to accept it.
No matter what I did or how much power I used, sound hardly ever escaped the car.

Did you try it while the back seat was out of the vehicle aiming the subs into the cabin of the car while the box remains in the boot? basically using the entire air space inside cabin as air space available for displacement. if you haven't, not try it and see what happens. if it improves that means there's just not enough air available for displacement in the trunk with the sub enclosure in there.

and if that's the case you have a few options. more efficient subs in smaller enclosures, or sacrifice the back seat for bass
Tried this. Not much of a difference...back seat down, up. Sub and port up,sub and port back even sub up port back. No big change beside rattles in trunk

kavaninho
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 840
Joined: March 29th, 2008, 8:30 pm
Location: Gasparillo
Contact:

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby kavaninho » March 22nd, 2019, 10:12 pm

op, put a wall

User avatar
Jeremy09
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 231
Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Strange loss of bass

Postby Jeremy09 » March 24th, 2019, 8:14 pm

Sound just not escaping the car well

Advertisement

Return to “I.C.E. / Car Audio Tech”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests