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Voltage drop

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heroyuy
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Voltage drop

Postby heroyuy » June 4th, 2019, 8:11 am

Good day tuners, lets start of by stating i am learning stuff as i go so any suggestion will be much appreciated.

I have recently upgraded my shiddy speakers in my almera. the door and back dash speakers have now been replaced by 6" and well now i have a 12 sub , got 2 small amps 1000w each. Now my issue is that i have been noticing all my lights dimming when the bass hits (car starts fine). I did some research and firstly i did the big 3 wiring using 0g , issue persisted so i changed my battery and used on of those red top optima batteries (3 mnths old now), same crap so i eventually put on a tiida (140) alternator. Issue still persists.
I bought a cigarette ligher voltage meter. On start up im gettin a nice 14.4 v however about 2 minutes after it will drop to 13.8. Once i am running about im seeing 13.2 to 13.5 .Now that is with accessories off. If i turn my bass up i see V drops to almost 13.
I am not sure what else i should be doing. I plugged on the voltmeter into another car and i see it at a constant 14.1v .Is there some specific way to wire the tiida alternator or some mod that can be done to have it run at 14v continously? I am out of ideas as i think i have done everything but add another battery, which i think is over kill for my small a$$ system.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

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Jeremy09
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Jeremy09 » June 4th, 2019, 2:03 pm

Experiencing same issue currently. I cleaned all my terminals and grounds. I read 14.2 with my tiida alt i added to my toyota and yes, i did the big 3 upgrade. I use a red top plus a xp3000 in the rear.
Looking forward to see what people say

heroyuy
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Joined: August 22nd, 2016, 3:44 pm

Re: Voltage drop

Postby heroyuy » June 4th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Jeremy09 wrote:Experiencing same issue currently. I cleaned all my terminals and grounds. I read 14.2 with my tiida alt i added to my toyota and yes, i did the big 3 upgrade. I use a red top plus a xp3000 in the rear.
Looking forward to see what people say



Wait you have a battery in the trunk as well?? how much amps /power? All the feedback i receive is that my redtop optima AH is too low to sustain the electrical and bass drops. the suggestions was to run a secondary battery and let the amps feed off the secondary. Are you getting a constant voltage or is yours dropping under 14 under normal load (no music)?

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Jeremy09
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Jeremy09 » June 4th, 2019, 2:37 pm

heroyuy wrote:
Jeremy09 wrote:Experiencing same issue currently. I cleaned all my terminals and grounds. I read 14.2 with my tiida alt i added to my toyota and yes, i did the big 3 upgrade. I use a red top plus a xp3000 in the rear.
Looking forward to see what people say



Wait you have a battery in the trunk as well?? how much amps /power? All the feedback i receive is that my redtop optima AH is too low to sustain the electrical and bass drops. the suggestions was to run a secondary battery and let the amps feed off the secondary. Are you getting a constant voltage or is yours dropping under 14 under normal load (no music)?
At idle with no load or music, i get 14.3v cold start,14.2v warmed up. My system is roughly 3000rms, the xp3000 is 120ah and i think the redtop is 44ah or so.

heroyuy
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby heroyuy » June 4th, 2019, 2:45 pm

it maintains the 14.2 right thru? wth is wrong with mine then! is your bass alone wired to the Xp3000 or how is it set up?

adnj
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby adnj » June 4th, 2019, 2:58 pm

heroyuy wrote:I bought a cigarette ligher voltage meter.


You are measuring voltage in the vehicle harness and not at the battery.

heroyuy wrote:On start up im gettin a nice 14.4 v however about 2 minutes after it will drop to 13.8.


It takes about 30 seconds to recharge a battery with the energy used from cranking the engine.

The voltage regulator switches from a charge voltage (higher) to a float voltage (lower) to prevent overcharging your battery and subsequently boiling out all of the acid solution.

heroyuy wrote:Once i am running about im seeing 13.2 to 13.5 .Now that is with accessories off. If i turn my bass up i see V drops to almost 13.


That number is deceptive because of where you are pulling your voltage reading from. You can wire directly to the battery terminals with a 5 amp fuse and 1.5 mm wire for better on-board readings. You won't be able to have the most accurate information on your start/charge system without doing this first.

Voltage drops cascade through the harness depending on where you have the biggest loads and the smallest wires. Cigar lighters typically have quite a few terminals and wires along the way that can provide a distorted system voltage reading.

If you are using a small digital voltmeter, check it against a known voltage reference or someone else's multimeter.


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heroyuy
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby heroyuy » June 4th, 2019, 3:10 pm

Thats some useful info adnj. currently i have a voltmeter on the cig lighter. However while im not driving i hook a multimeter to the 4g wire at the amp and use the seat bolts as the ground. I get the same voltage. Only the fuse block interupts the 4g power line. I will try to wire a meter directly to the battery so i can monitor it during driving conditions.
On other vehicles however using the same voltmeter ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E ... UTF8&psc=1 )
it registers a constant 14.1 -14.5 ( mazda 3, l200 ,backhoe) . if the voltage at the battery is the same as the reading inside, is there someway to make the alternater produce a constant 14.1 as jeremy?

adnj
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby adnj » June 4th, 2019, 4:47 pm

A constant regulator output depends on the voltage of battery and the voltage regulator.

When you add large loads, you will want to compensate with more supply current to prevent voltage drop. If the alternator cannot provide sufficient current to the load, then the battery will supply current and the system voltage will drop. The load will dissipate the same power so a voltage drop will cause a current increase that will further drop the voltage.

A typical 160 amp alternator will generate about 80 amps at idle with a 2:1 drive ratio and an 800 rpm idle speed. Output goes up to around 120 amps with a 3:1 ratio.

As devices turn on and off, voltage drops appear. It is a similar concept to faucets turning on and off in a structure.

So if you want more voltage at your battery without changing your regulator, you might try:

Removing the ground wire to get no ground reference (I don't recommend it).
Increasing charge cable gauges (I believe this was done).
Decreasing the size of the alternator pulley.
Increasing idle speed.

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Rage Warrior
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Rage Warrior » June 4th, 2019, 5:03 pm


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Rage Warrior
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Rage Warrior » June 4th, 2019, 5:06 pm

Jeremy09 wrote:Experiencing same issue currently. I cleaned all my terminals and grounds. I read 14.2 with my tiida alt i added to my toyota and yes, i did the big 3 upgrade. I use a red top plus a xp3000 in the rear.
Looking forward to see what people say
heroyuy wrote:Good day tuners, lets start of by stating i am learning stuff as i go so any suggestion will be much appreciated.

I have recently upgraded my shiddy speakers in my almera. the door and back dash speakers have now been replaced by 6" and well now i have a 12 sub , got 2 small amps 1000w each. Now my issue is that i have been noticing all my lights dimming when the bass hits (car starts fine). I did some research and firstly i did the big 3 wiring using 0g , issue persisted so i changed my battery and used on of those red top optima batteries (3 mnths old now), same crap so i eventually put on a tiida (140) alternator. Issue still persists.
I bought a cigarette ligher voltage meter. On start up im gettin a nice 14.4 v however about 2 minutes after it will drop to 13.8. Once i am running about im seeing 13.2 to 13.5 .Now that is with accessories off. If i turn my bass up i see V drops to almost 13.
I am not sure what else i should be doing. I plugged on the voltmeter into another car and i see it at a constant 14.1v .Is there some specific way to wire the tiida alternator or some mod that can be done to have it run at 14v continously? I am out of ideas as i think i have done everything but add another battery, which i think is over kill for my small a$$ system.

Any suggestions much appreciated.
Check out that link from YouTube,hope it helps.

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Jeremy09
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Joined: October 27th, 2014, 10:17 am

Re: Voltage drop

Postby Jeremy09 » June 4th, 2019, 10:38 pm

I honestly dont know if its my ears but when i had my 90amp stock toyota alt which read the 14.4v i find as though the bass was better (fuller,louder and deeper) sounding than now when i have the tida 140amp alt reading 14.2v in the toyota

heroyuy
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Joined: August 22nd, 2016, 3:44 pm

Re: Voltage drop

Postby heroyuy » June 6th, 2019, 10:24 am

So over the weekend i tried some stuff. I removed one of the alternator wires and the voltage reads 15.1 constantly. The bass still causes a dip regardless of the voltage so its definitely the low AH from the battery, The 15.1 volts is too high for my liking so i reconnected the wires and stay at the 13.5v . I will look into either fitting a larger battery up front or adding one to the trunk. ( i prefer my trunk emtpy so ill try to fit a larger capacity one up front)

adnj
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Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: Voltage drop

Postby adnj » June 6th, 2019, 5:10 pm

heroyuy wrote:So over the weekend i tried some stuff. I removed one of the alternator wires and the voltage reads 15.1 constantly. The bass still causes a dip regardless of the voltage so its definitely the low AH from the battery, The 15.1 volts is too high for my liking so i reconnected the wires and stay at the 13.5v . I will look into either fitting a larger battery up front or adding one to the trunk. ( i prefer my trunk emtpy so ill try to fit a larger capacity one up front)

Check your current draw with a shunt or a DC clamp on meter at the B+ terminal and at the amp input. You sound like you have a voltage drop on the amp power supply cable. If you don't go to a larger supply cable with lower resistivity, you will be forced to add a battery next to the amp to smooth out the voltage drop.

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Ted_v2
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Ted_v2 » June 8th, 2019, 7:39 pm

The forum loaded with alternator problems right now, why dont you all buy proper high output alternators with external regulators to set the voltage to where u all need it?

1000PROPER rms on bass is alot of strain on a electrical system, hell i noticed on some new vehicles the original alternator wires and factory grounds would be a issue in the next couple years.

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pjfred
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby pjfred » June 9th, 2019, 10:53 am

Im Looking for external regulator?

adnj
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Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: Voltage drop

Postby adnj » June 10th, 2019, 10:50 am

Ted_v2 wrote:The forum loaded with alternator problems right now, why dont you all buy proper high output alternators with external regulators to set the voltage to where u all need it?

1000PROPER rms on bass is alot of strain on a electrical system, hell i noticed on some new vehicles the original alternator wires and factory grounds would be a issue in the next couple years.
The problem that many ICE installers fail to grasp is that a 1Kw amp pulls about 55 amps to 110 amps. The typical car at idle can pull 55 amps to 75 amps. The amplifier is pulling as much current as everything else in the the car.

Most batteries hold less than 80 amp-hours or energy. That may likely let you run your amp for less than an hour before it is too depleted to start your engine.

You are left with a situation where you need to install a more capable charge system: larger alternator, larger cables, larger lugs, and additional battery capacity. Depending on your power requirements, two to four batteries, 0 to 0000 gauge cables and 350 amp alternators are not unusual.

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Jeremy09
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Jeremy09 » June 10th, 2019, 1:57 pm

I feel heroguy need to check the wires in the plug in in the tida alt. It may fit but the wire i think 1 needs to cut or some so.
When i plugged in mines, it was a toyota car and it read 13.9,after an electrition checked it, it read 14.1..i still feel like the bass gotten less full (could be my ears) but i noticed a decrease in bass going from my stock 90amp that read 14.4 to the tida 140amp that read 14.1
adnj wrote:
Ted_v2 wrote:The forum loaded with alternator problems right now, why dont you all buy proper high output alternators with external regulators to set the voltage to where u all need it?

1000PROPER rms on bass is alot of strain on a electrical system, hell i noticed on some new vehicles the original alternator wires and factory grounds would be a issue in the next couple years.
The problem that many ICE installers fail to grasp is that a 1Kw amp pulls about 55 amps to 110 amps. The typical car at idle can pull 55 amps to 75 amps. The amplifier is pulling as much current as everything else in the the car.

Most batteries hold less than 80 amp-hours or energy. That may likely let you run your amp for less than an hour before it is too depleted to start your engine.

You are left with a situation where you need to install a more capable charge system: larger alternator, larger cables, larger lugs, and additional battery capacity. Depending on your power requirements, two to four batteries, 0 to 0000 gauge cables and 350 amp alternators are not unusual.

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Ted_v2
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Ted_v2 » June 11th, 2019, 5:45 am

the voltage could say one thing, but the actual charging amps could very well be less.

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Jeremy09
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby Jeremy09 » June 15th, 2019, 10:28 pm

Ted_v2 wrote:the voltage could say one thing, but the actual charging amps could very well be less.
Is that possible with the tiida being 140amp and the stock being 90amp?

adnj
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Re: Voltage drop

Postby adnj » June 16th, 2019, 8:23 am

Jeremy09 wrote:
Ted_v2 wrote:the voltage could say one thing, but the actual charging amps could very well be less.
Is that possible with the tiida being 140amp and the stock being 90amp?
Yes. At low RPMs it is not uncommon for alternators with high peak output to produce less charging current than similar alternators with lower peak output.

Voltage measurements only address concerns with the alternator's ability to charge the battery and drop the output voltage when required so as not to overcharge the battery.

As I said in an earlier post, you will need to measure alternator output current AND current draw to the vehicle simultaneously using a DC current meter or a shunt and a multimeter to understand whether your alternator provides enough running amperage to your electrical system, including audio.

Otherwise, you are relying on the battery to provide power while the vehicle is running. That will likely result in premature failure of your battery due to repeated overdischarge. Image

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