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Frequency response graph

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ScHoolboySoloQ
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Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 24th, 2020, 10:49 pm

frequency response.PNG


I was playing around in winISD. Which line is better?

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 24th, 2020, 11:02 pm

...... :|
Last edited by Rovin on January 25th, 2020, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Dohplaydat » January 24th, 2020, 11:02 pm

What you like?

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 24th, 2020, 11:27 pm

I do not know how to properly analyze this graph, this is why I have come to the gurus for guidance

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 24th, 2020, 11:53 pm

ok now ur explaining ur self , its not guru level stuff

in very basic terms : vertical row , 0 dbs is like a neutral output point , below 0 will be less , above 0 will be more

bottom row of numbers are various freqs

lots of vids on youtube can explain in more details ...

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Dohplaydat » January 25th, 2020, 12:05 am

Rovin wrote:ok now ur explaining ur self , its not guru level stuff

in very basic terms : vertical row , 0 dbs is like a neutral output point , below 0 will be less , above 0 will be more

bottom row of numbers are various freqs

lots of vids on youtube can explain in more details ...


To add to that, if you're looking for reference speakers or monitors you want flat neutral response. But to our ears that sounds....dead.

You want a nice rise in the lower frequencies (100hz below) and possibly a peak at the highs.

But I have no idea what you doing because unless it's a headphones, one speaker doesn't do the full range.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Firewall » January 25th, 2020, 4:34 am

ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:
frequency response.PNG


I was playing around in winISD. Which line is better?
Depends on what you are trying to do.
For everyday listening blue should be better, but for pure spl, green should be better.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby sMASH » January 25th, 2020, 7:22 am

ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:frequency response.PNG

I was playing around in winISD. Which line is better?
define "better"

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby meccalli » January 25th, 2020, 7:39 am

If you're actually trying to a flat frequency response, it's a matter of accounting for the environment the cabinet is going into. If it's a car, you're going to have to account for cabin gain which varies with vehicle length and internal volume. With a higher tuning, it generally sounds ok once eq'ed in vehicles as long as you ensure your woofer doesn't unload below fb. (using a high pass filter)
When I was into car audio, I found going for a nice flat response from the cabinet is best and eq will take care of the rest. Some people like the peaky, boomy stuff you hear so often so......
You'll need a sealed test sub, mic and an rta if you're serious about tuning. I used to use a ht tool called room eq wizard.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 25th, 2020, 11:07 am

majority of trinis do not like how a flat response system or something close to it sounds like, cause for dem dat does sound too dull\dead

we accustomed with a system we cud hear a mile away even b4 we see d car coming , relll tweeters hissing or blaring mids barking like a wedding mic or 1tone peaky bassline booming with 2 maybe 3 bass notes in it

fork what is d ole timey traditional standard or what d rest of d civilized world doing - we iz trinis & we does show dem how we does do eeet , PLOI & BODOW to d max

:agrue:

.... :| :| :|

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Dohplaydat » January 25th, 2020, 11:40 am

Rovin wrote:majority of trinis do not like how a flat response system or something close to it sounds like, cause for dem dat does sound too dull\dead

we accustomed with a system we cud hear a mile away even b4 we see d car coming , relll tweeters hissing or blaring mids barking like a wedding mic or 1tone peaky bassline booming with 2 maybe 3 bass notes in it

fork what is d ole timey traditional standard or what d rest of d civilized world doing - we iz trinis & we does show dem how we does do eeet , PLOI & BODOW to d max

:agrue:

.... :| :| :|


Well Rovin, it's because flat sucks. I don't mind flat with some boost in the sub bass (below 60hz). But you're right.

Also ever notice trinis have no issue with blarring Mids just to get more.volume? Holy firetruck, I swear every bar, roadside vendor or store that does this will never get my business

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 25th, 2020, 11:53 am

u probably already know this but :

when i say FLAT i doh mean dead str8 line eh , music itself is made of quickly shifting peaks & dips otherwise we wud kinda be listening to more or less sine waves

a good guide is to have as much as possible freqs close to a flat neutral line within 1-2 dbs [+3dbs is considered double loudness & -3 = vice versa] , most ppl wouldnt know what d hell we talking about unless u show them on a RTA

if u have good experienced ears u can do this or get a RTA to show u this

a balanced system sounds very pleasing IMO , most wont even know what that shud sound like ... majority of ppl want a spike here\there

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby sMASH » January 25th, 2020, 11:58 am

Rovin wrote:majority of trinis do not like how a flat response system or something close to it sounds like, cause for dem dat does sound too dull\dead
.... :| :| :|

Image

the BBC dip, i used to set my eq curve like that for most stuff.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Gladiator » January 25th, 2020, 12:04 pm

Go get an audiometry test on your ears. Use that as a reference to tune your music to your liking. Not everyone hears the same wrt frequency.

Most humans hear more in the midrange frequencies and less in the lower and higher regions. That's why we tend to boost bass and treble.

The curves are standard curves for sealed and ported enclosures. The sealed has a slower roll off and a lower overall frequency response. That would sound fuller and more balanced but require more power.

The green curve shows a boost at the tuning frequency. Would require less power to sound louder but the frequency range is limited and the control or damping may not be as good as the sealed.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby rollingstock » January 25th, 2020, 12:07 pm

Biggest problem with Trini is they don't understand music.
I'm guessing this is a sub graph.
A flat response from you sub and enclosure is best. It DOES not mean that your system will sound flat. Music is dynamic, so will actually hear how the music was meant to sound.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 25th, 2020, 12:27 pm

sMASH wrote: define "better"


Well I want to build a subwoofer enclosure by myself and want to get the 20-100hz frequencies playing the notes at the same volume I don't want to hear peaks like boom boom then BRAMMMM. Must be like BRAMM BRAMM and BRAMM I dont want to rely on bass boost because i heard a system on bass boost and it doesn't sound very good.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 25th, 2020, 12:33 pm

i eh imposing my torts on others nuh , mankind free to do as each of us please :|


BOOM = LOW & BRAM = HIGH ?

me em know nuh i asking .... :lol:

like i said in my 1st post go watch some youtube vids of pros explaining stuff , d world is at ur finger tips jes search for it .....

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby meccalli » January 25th, 2020, 12:47 pm

ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:
sMASH wrote: define "better"


Well I want to build a subwoofer enclosure by myself and want to get the 20-100hz frequencies playing the notes at the same volume I don't want to hear peaks like boom boom then BRAMMMM. Must be like BRAMM BRAMM and BRAMM I dont want to rely on bass boost because i heard a system on bass boost and it doesn't sound very good.


Bass boost applies an eq boost around 45hz and yes it's ugly to the ears. Cabin gain in a vehicle will aid alot in your low end even if you use a sealed enclosure but If if you're designing a cabinet to comfortably do 20 hz, you'll be looking at a very large enclosure, that's in the range of home theatre llt designs. For vehicles, I've always liked a bass reflex enclosure with an fb in the range of 25-32hz

What sub are you planning on using?

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 25th, 2020, 12:59 pm

Rovin wrote:i eh imposing my torts on others nuh , mankind free to do as each of us please :|


BOOM = LOW & BRAM = HIGH ?

me em know nuh i asking .... :lol:

like i said in my 1st post go watch some youtube vids of pros explaining stuff , d world is at ur finger tips jes search for it .....


Boom is playing the particular note so low i cant hear
Bram is playing the particular note so high it sounds weird

I will continue researching. Thanks for the input guys and ill check out that room eq wizard as well.

I plan on using an ID 12 D4

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby meccalli » January 25th, 2020, 1:45 pm

Great sub. Who carries Id 12's now btw?
Image Dynamics actually have spec sheets and FR graphs that factor generic vehicle cabin gain.
https://acd18d33-4461-49d0-9804-8fc4a14 ... 037046.pdf
1.75 cubes @ 32 seems pretty cut and dry if it was me.
Id's recommended enclosure @ half space
1.75 32.jpg

Roughly 4 cubes @ 24hz @ half space
4cubes @24.jpg

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby kavaninho » January 25th, 2020, 3:35 pm

Since you new to this, I suggest you build both and have an appreciation of what all the guys are telling you.
From my experience the suggested box specs Image Dynamics give you in the manual are really good.

Without having the calibrated mic and room EQ software etc you cant design the sub box to compensate for environment. Its easier at this point to build the box with the most neutral simulated response and use a good parametric EQ to get it where you want when you install it into the car/room.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby kavaninho » January 25th, 2020, 3:43 pm

from the graph you posted, the +/-3dB frequency range of the green sub will be very narrow.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 25th, 2020, 9:18 pm

Gladiator wrote:Go get an audiometry test on your ears. Use that as a reference to tune your music to your liking. Not everyone hears the same wrt frequency.

Most humans hear more in the midrange frequencies and less in the lower and higher regions. That's why we tend to boost bass and treble.

The curves are standard curves for sealed and ported enclosures. The sealed has a slower roll off and a lower overall frequency response. That would sound fuller and more balanced but require more power.

The green curve shows a boost at the tuning frequency. Would require less power to sound louder but the frequency range is limited and the control or damping may not be as good as the sealed.


Whats very strange is over the last few days my hearing changed a lot. Started with the right ear and now the left.

I used to find that systems properly done were bright to me. Now mine sounds like its lacking on the higher end. I'm wondering if i'm now hearing properly. :?

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 25th, 2020, 9:26 pm

OP not sure what your taste is like but I usually classify it into 3 zones. The thump, the boom and the shake.

Thump - easily felt vs heard, has a lot of impact over 60hz

Boom - more heard than felt, more sound 40 to 60hz

Shake - not so audible, a lot of air moves, under 40hz and well into the subsonic

I heard flat systems, was kinda boring. I bought a set of expensive speakers that are known to sound great and flat. They got boring.

Different people tend to like it different but a sub crossed at 100hz was never to my liking. I have crossed at 31.5hz already and have my 10's at 40 or 50hz. Mid bass at 63hz seems to cut it for me so far.

I like it heavy on the lower end, all you can hear is stuff rattling. Its heavier because the shake notes are less audible so they need more emphasis to blend in with the higher notes preventing them from being overwhelming.



decent impact on the midbass, blended in with the sub nicely and the higher notes not screaming or overbearing. They complement the midrange region making for a decent balance but not flat in any way. I have been contemplating the RTA but afraid it may influence me.







Take into consideration door are dampened till they like rubber if you hit it a lash. Midbass from dark horse by katy perry has stuff rattling in the door pockets. No subwoofer
Last edited by nervewrecker on January 25th, 2020, 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 25th, 2020, 9:47 pm

............

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby rollingstock » January 25th, 2020, 10:16 pm

Some don't know the difference between a system designed for a flat response vs one tuned for a flat response.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 25th, 2020, 10:30 pm

Not sure why the topic is moved down :/

It sounds really good on my headphones nerve. I will make the two types of boxes and compare them. An RTA sounds expensive though.

When I begin the project I will post a thread showing the progress and demos in the technical articles. My goal is SQ so I will be working out my midbass/midrange/highs soon. I want to take it one step at a time.

I am really looking forward to this :D

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 25th, 2020, 10:40 pm

I have a Dayton RTA mic a group of us bought some years back. Is just for a guide, not professional.

Best advice: ID box specs good, stick to it.

I used what is on the paper or as close as possible to it. Had my doubts but it sounds pretty good.

What other equipment you have?

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 25th, 2020, 11:16 pm

Nothing is bought yet lol I do not want to waste money so planning is crucial.

I planned on either using an ID 12 D4 on a 500 rms amp.

I could get 4 JBL C608 MKII for the doors but im still debating on it.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 25th, 2020, 11:26 pm

i said this here many times b4 : invest in quality amps too ... just as important or imo more important than d speakers u choose

it have free RTA apps u cud download on ur phone & use for d time being , it will give u an idea rather than investing in expensive equipment which u can always do later on

ppl does use d word SQ, SOUND QUALITY loosely & really dont even know what that means eh , i hope u start researching that 1st ...

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