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Frequency response graph

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rollingstock
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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby rollingstock » January 25th, 2020, 11:32 pm

ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:Nothing is bought yet lol I do not want to waste money so planning is crucial.

I planned on either using an ID 12 D4 on a 500 rms amp.

I could get 4 JBL C608 MKII for the doors but im still debating on it.


Really solid great sounding speakers. Little beefy. May take some work to fit in some vehicle factory mounting location.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby eKeith » January 26th, 2020, 12:10 am

rollingstock wrote:Biggest problem with Trini is they don't understand music.
I'm guessing this is a sub graph.
A flat response from you sub and enclosure is best. It DOES not mean that your system will sound flat. Music is dynamic, so will actually hear how the music was meant to sound.
Well said!

Flat is best to hear how the musician and producer intended you to hear it, but only if you pay attention to getting everything else in your music processing chain similarly addressed.

Just by being in a car enclosure will be a compromise but your best leverage is to stop listening to crappy mp3s. Use lossless file format like FLAC. Soon your ears will become tuned to noticing the difference...

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby sMASH » January 26th, 2020, 1:49 am

nervewrecker wrote:
Gladiator wrote:Go get an audiometry test on your ears. Use that as a reference to tune your music to your liking. Not everyone hears the same wrt frequency.

Most humans hear more in the midrange frequencies and less in the lower and higher regions. That's why we tend to boost bass and treble.

The curves are standard curves for sealed and ported enclosures. The sealed has a slower roll off and a lower overall frequency response. That would sound fuller and more balanced but require more power.

The green curve shows a boost at the tuning frequency. Would require less power to sound louder but the frequency range is limited and the control or damping may not be as good as the sealed.


Whats very strange is over the last few days my hearing changed a lot. Started with the right ear and now the left.

I used to find that systems properly done were bright to me. Now mine sounds like its lacking on the higher end. I'm wondering if i'm now hearing properly. :?
That happened to me, and years later cleaned my ears and took out a lot of wax. It was like removing ear plugs and hearing definition again.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby kavaninho » January 26th, 2020, 7:40 am

ScHoolboySoloQ If you want to take a listen to some SQ vehicles before you build, there are guys here that can facilitate you including myself. Attend one of those ICE meets if you can. I started SQ in 2012 (was into loud bang previously) after hearing a great red mazda 3 a couple of times. :) HAT ftw

Your choice of sub is fine! In an SQ system, more emphasis/planning is placed on the frontstage as opposed to the sub.

I saw you mentioned getting 2 pairs of components, therefore you are planning rearfill. Usually, a good SQ car has no rearfill at all or very little which is almost not noticeable.
I suggest you get a descent 5 channel amp, one pair of comps and the sub to start with. If your budget allows, the 80prs will be your choice..

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby SR » January 26th, 2020, 8:12 am

Green line gallary box response

Blue line better response and in car response would have a natural bump aroubd 40hz however based on the blue curve sub specs may not have a very low fs

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ruffneck_12 » January 26th, 2020, 12:34 pm

The flat one better for music

The other one better for making poop sounds. Peaking at 50Hz yes.


But link the specs of the sub, I'll design a better one for you because I assuming the flat line is one HUGE box with an insanely low tuning

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby meccalli » January 26th, 2020, 1:36 pm

The Fs of the id 12 is 20hz. I mean if you're going for sq, large and low tuned or sealed are your best options. Id's recommended sealed enclosure has a qtc that's a bit high for my liking at 1.25 cubes unless you plan on tweaking with filling. A sealed enclosure at 2.5 cubes will give you a damping value of .68, which'll be the best compromise considering it's going into a vehicle so you don't need a lower q to aid with room matching. Despite the better transients at a lower q, you'll be looking at 4-5 cubes to reach that level of damping at which point you should just go with a large vented system for the additional efficiency.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 26th, 2020, 2:27 pm

all of this is why we need to revive d ICE club [just like 2 meetings that we had last yr] so ppl who already in it can get together or newbies will get an idea what its all about , anybody can sit down & watch ur screen or read online whole day but nothing beats real life listening demos & talking to ppl

we dont have to be formal or rent a space or a classroom , keep it cost free , product ad free & very casual so newcomers wont feel intimidated by other ppls system or feel frighten as if ppl will move snobbish towards strangers ...

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby rollingstock » January 26th, 2020, 4:09 pm

I eh go fit in.
I like my boom boom.boom

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 26th, 2020, 9:03 pm

Rovin wrote:all of this is why we need to revive d ICE club [just like 2 meetings that we had last yr] so ppl who already in it can get together or newbies will get an idea what its all about , anybody can sit down & watch ur screen or read online whole day but nothing beats real life listening demos & talking to ppl

we dont have to be formal or rent a space or a classroom , keep it cost free , product ad free & very casual so newcomers wont feel intimidated by other ppls system or feel frighten as if ppl will move snobbish towards strangers ...


call the date, like the thread need a bump.

I missed the last one btw. How did it go?

rollingstock wrote:I eh go fit in.
I like my boom boom.boom


all are welcome.

kavaninho wrote:ScHoolboySoloQ If you want to take a listen to some SQ vehicles before you build, there are guys here that can facilitate you including myself. Attend one of those ICE meets if you can. I started SQ in 2012 (was into loud bang previously) after hearing a great red mazda 3 a couple of times. :) HAT ftw

Your choice of sub is fine! In an SQ system, more emphasis/planning is placed on the frontstage as opposed to the sub.

I saw you mentioned getting 2 pairs of components, therefore you are planning rearfill. Usually, a good SQ car has no rearfill at all or very little which is almost not noticeable.
I suggest you get a descent 5 channel amp, one pair of comps and the sub to start with. If your budget allows, the 80prs will be your choice..


Dobson strikes again. I remember his was among the first I listened to. I asked can it get loud, it did. I asked if it can play anything, it did. In fact he had cd's with the stuff I listen to already lined up. Then I pull out a flash drive and run a mavado in dey. Sounded like utter rubbish, I think gasoline and match is what that flash drive needs. Is like a light came down from the sky and show me the way. I got in almost everyones ride since.
Have some men with some bad ass stuff out here yo!
Last edited by nervewrecker on January 26th, 2020, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 26th, 2020, 9:12 pm

.............

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ScHoolboySoloQ » January 27th, 2020, 8:04 pm

I was browsing amps and I saw a place in Marabella that sells Audison and Helix. Opinions on them?

Or should I just stick with my original plan to use Zapco. Other suggestions are highly appreciated :D

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby VexXx Dogg » January 28th, 2020, 9:10 am

ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:I was browsing amps and I saw a place in Marabella that sells Audison and Helix. Opinions on them?

Or should I just stick with my original plan to use Zapco. Other suggestions are highly appreciated :D


By Krave there? I think they sell Zapco too.

They had an awesome Helix 5 channel, but was a little too big for my application. I've heard the older zapcos, not sure if the more recent ones are as good

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby kavaninho » January 28th, 2020, 5:41 pm

ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:I was browsing amps and I saw a place in Marabella that sells Audison and Helix. Opinions on them?

Or should I just stick with my original plan to use Zapco. Other suggestions are highly appreciated :D


ScHoolboySoloQ dont spend extravagantly on high end brands (unless your mammy paying) if you are now getting into it. Buy something average but yet still reputable. Get a feel for things.

Remember 90% of the sound will come from your midrange/frontstage speakers so put more emphasis there than sub.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 28th, 2020, 7:07 pm

^^^good advice

3 nice but expensive brands he call out unless is d entry level of each brand he looking at

long time u hear ppl say 20% equipment 80% install , i dont subscribe to whatever ratio ppl choose to say , start with something decent not necessarily high end , if $ eh no problem get good stuff ..... cant take mess & make it into ice cream though u cud take ice cream & make it into mess

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 28th, 2020, 11:46 pm

kavaninho wrote:
ScHoolboySoloQ wrote:I was browsing amps and I saw a place in Marabella that sells Audison and Helix. Opinions on them?

Or should I just stick with my original plan to use Zapco. Other suggestions are highly appreciated :D


ScHoolboySoloQ dont spend extravagantly on high end brands (unless your mammy paying) if you are now getting into it. Buy something average but yet still reputable. Get a feel for things.

Remember 90% of the sound will come from your midrange/frontstage speakers so put more emphasis there than sub.


x50

I started with what close to entry level stuff, a set of comps I bought from 3stagevtec for $200 and stuff I picked up here on tuner.

When I demoed systems I heard a difference in their own. kept upgrading and upgrading till I had some of the stuff men had. I can now hear differences in sound and know what I like from what I dont (take into consideration what I said bout flat response). Everyone has his own taste but its best to hear what else there is out there. Rovin shop has stuff you can demo and compare.

Every time I upgraded I heard small differences. Some time ago I had put back some of the stuff I started with. What was the best thing since sliced bread now sounded not so good at all.

The JBL set you eyeing, you wont like the tweeters at all. I swapped them for hybrid audio.

I have heard a set of focal comps that sounded pretty good at Triple r on cipero street, san fernando. Cant remember the set off hand, I tink 2 ohm.

The hybrid audio imagine sets are a good place to start as well, can try audiophile trading
372-7636, https://www.facebook.com/pg/Audiophile- ... e_internal

There was a set of image dynamics chameleon and XS 65 floating around, not sure if they might pop up.

There are some JBL comps I demoed at rovin's shop that are 2 ohm and sounded pretty decent, I not sure if the Hybrid audio imagine set sold
https://www.facebook.com/Rovins-Car-Aud ... 196974193/
337-6128

I have heard great things about the elecktra brand, they have a shop on fens compound at marabella and the dealers are active here
https://www.facebook.com/sqaudiott/
746-1234

The shop by krave, the name slipping my mind (they on here too) have stuff you can dem as well and they do sell zapco last I paid them a visit.

raw drivers, there is exodus anarchy which I used with no regrets

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/catalogse ... /?q=exodus







you will have to ship in


or the silver flutes you can get from madisound.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Brian Steele » January 29th, 2020, 4:55 pm

nervewrecker wrote:or the silver flutes you can get from madisound.


I've used the SF drivers from Madisound. They're pretty good for the price. The t/s parameters can vary a bit though, but that might not make much difference if you're planning to door-mount them.

If you're willing to spend a little extra though, I'd suggest going with the Dayton Audio RS180 drivers instead. You have a choice between metal or paper cone versions to go with. I opted for the paper-coned versions as I was planning to use a simple passive x-over with them. I'm quite happy with their performance, and they've survived over a year. I'm not sure how they will handle long term use after that though. In the case of the SF drivers, moisture eventually got to the cones and they started detaching from the surrounds. If anyone's REALLY interested, I can pull one of the RS180s to see if there's any signs of similar damage starting to happen.

The Dayton Audio RS180 also has one advantage most other drivers don't have. The phase plugs can be removed, allowing you the opportunity to cook up your own version of a coaxial speaker by DIY mounting a tweeter above the pole piece. Not that I've tried it, but I did consider doing it for quite a while.

Comparison between the two drivers here:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum ... ost1396685

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Brian Steele » January 29th, 2020, 5:20 pm

eKeith wrote:Flat is best to hear how the musician and producer intended you to hear it


Not necessarily. Go to any live performance by a musician and record it. Compare it to the version you have on CD. It will sound entirely different. Now, which is the version that the musician wanted you to hear? :-)

In-car, a "flat" response curve will sound anemic, lacking bass, as soon as you start driving the car. Boosting the bass a bit at low frequencies (starting 200 Hz and below) will give audibly better results. I usually end up boosting a bit more than that because my car is more of a "fun-SQ" installation, but I try to avoid the one-note bass syndrome, which makes the bass for every track sound the same. BTW I cross my subwoofers over high, around 125 Hz if I remember correctly. 6.5" door-mounted drivers have no business trying to reproduce signals below 100 Hz at high SPL levels, unless you like to hear distortion :-)

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby sMASH » January 29th, 2020, 7:35 pm

Personally, I thinking, have a eq setting fir personal listening, and a different preset for competition.
Cause tuning fir flat will give a good starting point to incrementally tune to a balanced sound fir enjoyable listening.

I saw on YouTube there is an old iasca CD. And there is a 7 hit drum stage track. On my pc, I get it very close to evenly spread from left to right.

I using that as a reference to tune the alignment in the car... I got it quite separated, and properly spaced till it reached the driver seat, and then those sound really close. But left is left, center is center, and right, is exactly where the right speaker is... Which is kinda ahead and not on the right.



I will hadda do the fone spectrum analyzer ting to get a ghetto 3db flat. Hopefully It will not be tooooo far away from calibrated mic

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby rollingstock » January 29th, 2020, 9:10 pm

A flat response is just a starting point. Once vehicle acoustics are factored in and adjustments made.

I would advise anyone to though to shop around listen to different speakers and if possible other vehicles. Music is very subjective. What may be great for some may not be to your liking.

And at the end of the day it's for your enjoyment, if you want to tune 40hz and use pro speakers, once you enjoying it. The amount of persons heard my music and disagreed with rear fill and my rear Tweeter placement. I actually love it.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ruffneck_12 » January 29th, 2020, 9:41 pm

A flat response good for mastering and mixing engineers, not for humans.

Humans tend to like certain parts of the spectrum more. Like for example my computer screen looks red because I don't fancy white screens as much, even though white is essentially a 'flat response' in terms of the electromagnetic spectrum

In terms of music, I like a boost in the 500-800Hz range to really feel the impact of the voice (the mids bark frequency nah bai),

----------------------------------------------------------------------

On the flip side, trinidadians dotish doh. They only focus on EXTREME highs, midrange, and extreme lows.

This is the average daily system here:
Putting a 2.2uF condensor on a 4 ohm tweeter gives you a useable freq range from 10khz above
Most people use midrange speakers from 600Hz to 3Khz
and bass is just 60Hz and below

So to summarize, Nobody have high mids, nobody have midbass and everybody dotish except the people in this thread.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby nervewrecker » January 30th, 2020, 12:21 am

Vehicle response and road noise.
I find the 200hz to 800hz region needs a boost to compensate.
But all vehicles will not be the same.
The cdt set I have, I think the phase plugs can be removed as well. Well had, cuz I let them go with my Nissan frontier

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Brian Steele » January 30th, 2020, 12:30 am

ruffneck_12 wrote:Putting a 2.2uF condensor on a 4 ohm tweeter gives you a useable freq range from 10khz above


That might be the electrical x-over point.

The acoustic x-over point might be a bit lower.

Case in point - my Blastorama build. The tweeter section has an electrical filter that's around 11kHz. However the acoustic x-over point is closer to 3 kHz. That's because the tweeter - which is really a CD horn, has an output that slopes down from 3 kHz to around 10 kHz, and the choice of an electrical filter that high flattens the response.

Having said that, it's always easy to hear when someone hasn't filtered a CD horn properly like that. They sound like sheit.

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby rollingstock » January 30th, 2020, 7:18 am

Just use some nb1's for those crisp highs

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby Rovin » January 30th, 2020, 10:52 am

ruffneck_12 wrote:
On the flip side, trinidadians dotish doh. They only focus on EXTREME highs, midrange, and extreme lows.

This is the average daily system here:
Putting a 2.2uF condensor on a 4 ohm tweeter gives you a useable freq range from 10khz above
Most people use midrange speakers from 600Hz to 3Khz
and bass is just 60Hz and below

So to summarize, Nobody have high mids, nobody have midbass and everybody dotish except the people in this thread.


sometimes i dunno if allyuh men trolling or being sarcastic :|

who are these trinis who focus on extreme lows ? lol ... very few & far in between .... current generation of soundboys jes like it loud to dee MAX , once it bussin ears & hitting ur chest it bess , if i had to guestimate how they port i wud say 45-50hz maybe more too in undersized peaky enclosures , once dem bois get 2-3 notes dise all they need & they dont even care to play songs with various lower notes in it ...aint nobody got time fo dat

Most people use midrange speakers from 600Hz to 3Khz
:shock: :shock: :shock: i cyar begin to fathom dat 1 or u really messing with us , even 10yrs ago when i used to do gallery in carshows only for kicks my rcf 10s back then were crossed at 90hz & bass still played 30-80

i am a person who doh like much highs , i eh able with all dat high volume irritating tsssss tsssss tsssss tsssss tsssss in my ears sounding like it about 15dbs higher than d rest of d music ... i dunno how men sitting normel in cars able with dat when i standing outside 50-100ft away & it sounding harsh to me

as for MIDBASS alot of ppl apparently dont even know what that is or around what region it shud be , customers does come asking me daily for mids but they want some bass out of it .... when i give ppl a demo of my doors which able to play down to 50hz they say waaaaay dise rel bass coming from ur doors boi :mrgreen:

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby kavaninho » January 30th, 2020, 5:49 pm

rollingstock wrote:Just use some nb1's for those crisp highs


Endorsed! :lol:

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Re: Frequency response graph

Postby ruffneck_12 » February 12th, 2020, 7:52 pm

Rovin, you comparing your system with the average dotish trini system, of course your system gonna be leagues better.

I certainly aint trolling here dawg (for once).

talking about the average daily system eh, not car show. Systems where somebody cousin do the hook up and just turn knob till thing sounding good to them

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