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Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

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ramishrrr
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Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ramishrrr » September 21st, 2018, 7:25 pm

My niece has a 1800 cc Fielder ZRE-142. Recently her alternator started making noise. He mechanic told her it was the alternator bearing, so she contacted me for help.
I took the car to the auto electrician, and it was pointed out to me that that type of alternator has a grooved pulley with a built-in clutch called a decoupler pulley. The alternator bearings were ok. It was the bearing in the pulley that was going bad. The car is a 2009 model.
Why a clutch ? Maybe to soften the impact on the serpentine belt, and to reduce chatter on the external belt tensioner. It works just like a bicycle coaster sprocket. No reason to doubt that its made exactly the same inside. The previous model cars did not employ that system. My 1800 Fielder (NZE121 model is 15 years old and never had alternator trouble.)
If the repairs are not carried out, the coupling will slip and eventually the alternator shaft may not turn, and your battery light will come on.

As it is, from that model onwards (NZE 141 shape) and the larger engined vehicles, the same type of decoupler pulley is employed. It is made in Canada, and fitted on the Denso alternator.

Now the nice part.

Foreign-used parts people tell me that the alternator is very difficult to find. If you get it, it will be TT$2,000-3,000 !!
Well, my auto parts dealers in Marabella have it.........the genuine Toyota grooved clutched-pulley. Faiz Auto....TT$1,000. Marud....TT$1100. Aftermarket TT$595.
I opted for the aftermarket for TT$595 and TT$100 for servicing and repairing the alternator. That's TT$600 I spent.
Why I bought the aftermarket ?
Seeing that how this thing is built, with a sealed bearing inside, and the service it is in, I feel that the genuine Toyota pulley will not have that much life more than the aftermarket.
I have aftermarket rear wheel bearings on my car about 7 years now. The car was 8 years old when the originals went bad. The genuine Toyota at TTL was TT$2,830. The aftermarket was TT$395.....ABS sensor included ! Of course, the rest is history.

Back to the alternator !
Looking at the alternator on the 1800cc 1ZZFE engine (NZE121 shape) and on my 1800cc 2ZZGE engine (NZE121 shape), I feel that that older model Denso alternator can be substituted. The simple pulley appears smaller, but the belt tensioner is able to take up the slack on the serpentine belt. The 2ZZ has VVTLI and the engine can rev like hell, and I used to rev it before the laser gun came. My alternator without that decoupler pulley has survived for 15 years !

So those of you with Noah, Voxy, Fielder, Vigo and other with decoupler pulleys on your alternator, do not let the foreign-used people, and the Change-the-alternator-auto-electricians dig out your eyes. Too, remember it is used already, so the life will be significantly shorter. Yours can be repaired for less.
Mine was repaired by Shane at Union Park Junction, Marabella.

Peace.
RR.
Last edited by ramishrrr on September 22nd, 2018, 9:33 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.

Postby Dave » September 21st, 2018, 7:28 pm

Always good info.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.

Postby *KRONIK* » September 22nd, 2018, 6:35 am

EDS in vistabella also has the OEM clutch pulleys

OCEAN connect also has.

You can get them on ebay also if you know the part #

Its around 50US

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ramishrrr » September 22nd, 2018, 9:43 am

I am seeing a lot of pulleys on Amazon.
The Part number is 27415-0T010-A.

I have included a snapshot of the cost of one at https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota.com/
Peace.
RR
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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby *KRONIK* » September 22nd, 2018, 11:35 am

That applies to the nze line

The hilux carries a different pulley w/clutch

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby John_Doe » September 24th, 2018, 5:05 am

The clutch pully is to allow the angular momentum built up in the alternator to dissipate into the charging system and not into the crank.
If you are hearing the noise from the alternator, most times the rectifier will blow shortly after.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby limbobreak » September 24th, 2018, 5:23 am

All that to say you have a 2zz. Lol. Nice info.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ramishrrr » September 24th, 2018, 9:01 am

limbobreak,
hahaha !
The 2ZZ is history.
While I still enjoy it, there are many cars with engines out there that will have me reading their rear number plates.
Everything is stock. A/T.


....too, I am wrong about the 2ZZ alternator. The plug has 3 wires instead of 4 and is shaped differently. Still, I think that the alternator would line up.
Can anyone explain the configuration on the diagram of the 2ZR-FE alternator ?

Peace.
RR
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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ADONI » September 27th, 2018, 10:23 am

FU market has some parts so expensive, it is no longer worth it. It sometimes make sense to either repair or buy new. A FU place in the Bamboo was selling me one Hilux caliper for $1,200 (they dropped to $1,000 after I told them ROC price) and ROC had it original new for $1,800....

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby make meh care » September 27th, 2018, 10:34 am

The 2zr alternator uses the clutch for Fuel saving purposes.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby make meh care » September 27th, 2018, 10:40 am

Ramish check this will help you out
2ZR-FE  Alternator Wiring.jpg

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ramishrrr » September 27th, 2018, 4:24 pm

make meh care.
Thanks.

This is more sophisticated than I thought.
Initially alternators had external regulators, like the old-time generators had.
Then the regulators started being built in as solid-state electronics progressed.

There were three wires on the alternator.
The heavy charge-back wire, the trickle-current wire to energise the armature/rotor, and the charge light wire to your dash.

I got lost with the four wire on.

Now, this is five wires.
I give up !

In tracing some technology, Honda used to control the trickle current wire by shutting off that current when the car made rapid acceleration.
In so doing, there will be no magnetic field in the alternator temporarily (less work for the engine) so you would get more engine output upon acceleration. I guess that is why the electrical servomotor steering was also developed.
But, I met a guy who tells me that he "fixes" the pulleys by welding them. No more slip, no more noise.
But I suppose you may have shortened belt life, as that rotor is pretty heavy.
Say what ! A belt is cheaper than the total cost of replacing a pulley.

I have a little more on the same alternator.
But later.

Peace.
RR.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby adnj » September 27th, 2018, 5:44 pm

Fuel savings, yes, but the clutch was added to allow larger alternators on smaller engines. The larger alternators are susceptible to premature wear without one. The clutch also helps to extend the life of the belt and every device on that belt. They also smooth out the engine resonance and help to meet emissions requirements.

make meh care wrote:The 2zr alternator uses the clutch for Fuel saving purposes.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ramishrrr » September 27th, 2018, 7:15 pm

This is the final chapter on the 2ZR alternator.

The alternator was installed on the engine and driven for about 20 miles.
Then it burnt.
The battery light came on. The alternator was smelling burnt.

It was removed from the engine and sent to me.

Took it back to the auto-electrician.
The rectifier was burnt. The regulator was possibly damaged.
The stator windings and rotor were OK.
The regulator, rectifier, brushes were renewed.

It was re-installed today.
Working good so far.

Peace.
RR.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby ramishrrr » September 27th, 2018, 7:42 pm

Respect to adnj's post:
Fuel savings, yes, but the clutch was added to allow larger alternators on smaller engines. The larger alternators are susceptible to premature wear without one. The clutch also helps to extend the life of the belt and every device on that belt. They also smooth out the engine resonance and help to meet emissions requirements.



In my first post I stated that I have a 1800cc Fielder with fixed-pulley alternator. Never had a problem with it.
The car is a 2003 A/T model......15 years old , 180,000kms.
1. I changed serpentine belt twice, routine, no belt failure.
2. For the 11 years of ownership, it was A/C day and night. Cold today as 11 years ago. However the compressor emits a vibration, and the A/C man says that the shaft is worn. Reasonable for me. No problem, as I will change the compressor.
3. The water pump was never changed.
4. The steering pump never had an issue.
5. The external belt tensioner is original.

It means that given the situation of my niece with the 2ZR, I would have had alternator pulley failure quite some time ago. My components running on the belt held up well, one would have to agree.
I have about the same current requirements as the 2ZR, and the alternator works fine.
I can understand that the de-coupler pulley allows the engine to accelerate easier, as the clutch will slip. Honda did that on the CBX six-cylinder motorcycle about 40 years ago, due to the fierce acceleration of the 24-valve engine. There was a possibility that the alternator shaft could snap.
All in all, in my opinion, the decoupler pulley is overkill on the 2ZR engine. One could do without the headache.

Peace.
RR.

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Re: Grooved Pulley with clutch on Denso Alternators.(Decoupler Pulley)

Postby kripplerz » January 15th, 2019, 2:29 am

As previously said older cars had internal regulators new alternators are controlled by the ECM, reason for the extra wires to the alternator.
The ECM turns on and off the alternator a few times per second using pwm or duty cycle signals, so therefore the newer pulley absorb this shock, if it was fixed idle will be rough and you’ll get some vibration as the ECM controls the alternator. Also on deceleration the pully will be coasting, improves the life of the alternator and efficiency blah blah blah.

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