The comprehensive 4age thread

[EarthQuake]

lol. blessed

[rx80]

bump for lots of info here!

[dmitc]

any one know where i can find the rubber seal for the VVT controller of the 20v silvertop?

[Zeriam]

take the old one to a parts place and see if the they have it in the seal kit.

[Hook]

Take the controller too since you'll have it out to get the seal. The seal gets flattened and hard over time, but there's very little clearance for too thick of a seal, so you might have to stretch fit one to keep from forcing it (and thus tearing the seal).

[dmitc]

i'll have to do that that since i'm not sure to get the an oem replacement

[Hook]

Doesn't the BT service manual have the part number for that seal?

[dmitc]

finally got through with the o-ring. I bought 3 and finally got one to not only fit aroung the vvt controller but also inside the cylinder head (with some effort).
However with that fixed i realise that i have to sort out another small leak that seems be comming from betweem the head and block under the vvt controller. but next week for that.

[dmitc]

oh btw how do you clean side feed/fed injectors.
i just got the injectors of the misses NZE cleaned and i wanted to do my 4age. When i connected the injectors to the battery it opened easily enough but when i sprayed the carb cleaner into the side meshing, instead of goning into the injector it just went around it. any suggestion would be welcomed

[Hook]

I used to clean mine in an extra 20V rail I had...pop in all 4 injectors, pressure the line with Powerfoam or Bars and pulse them, then let it sit a few mins to soak a bit and pulse them again

[tardissubie]

Simple question, what are the cons and if any, the pro of running a BT with ST ecu

[Zeriam]

it the will work but not to the best.
u'll lose the use of map sensor and have to use the st airflow sensor. its more of a "downgrade" to put an ST ecu on a BT

[Hook]

Simple question, what are the cons and if any, the pro of running a BT with ST ecu

I don't understand the question exactly (:lol: not simple enough).
Are you talking about a full out Blacktop with harness and everything but with a Silvertop ECU? OR do you mean using a Blacktop head and block and using back everything else?

Cuz the second scenario will work definitely, although I don't know of any power gains there are to that undertaking.
But in the first scenario, you'll need some way of converting the MAP sensor signal to something the AFM circuitry will use AND then there's the thing about the TPS on the Silvertop needing 4wires while the Blacktop only uses 3wires so pin designations on the harness will be different.

There are, however, adapters you can order online to do this ( see http://www.phoenixtuning.com ), but I don't see why you'd want to go through all that...it IS, after all, a downgrade.

[tardissubie]

Thanks Zeriam
Scenario is 20v BT running on ST ecu (afp sensor)...Do you think it is worth the time and money to change the existing ST ecu to the proper BT ecu if the car is a daily driver?

[Zeriam]

honestly if you are not looking for anything faster than it is right now and just require the car to just work comfortably by all means leave it alone, its your call at the end of the day.

[dmitc]

hey guys i need to take out my silvertop crank shaft pulley to change the seal but the pulley refuse to come out. the bolt is out but the pulley refuse to budge. Is there someone who knows how to remove this pulley? any sudgestions are welcome.

[Hook]

To change that seal, you'll need to move the pulley and the timing gear.

Now to move the pulley is easy, you could easily use a standard puller like this that's available in most parts places.


But do it carefully because the edges are very fragile and can chip easily, however, yuh see dem two threaded holes on the spokes?


You can use a puller like this for that and not have to worry about chipping the edges of the pulley.


I don't know where to get this, but it seems easy enough to make.



NOW THE TIMING GEAR! *WHEW!*

It's VERY close to the oil unit housing and thus VERY difficult to get all three puller hooks behind it without prying it out first, which also risks chipping the edges (or cracking the housing), so you may have to use one of these.


You may need to remove the half-moon timing gear key before attempting to pull the gear, so be careful with it if you do.
Spray the parts liberally with WD40 or other penetrating oil while you're working.

Good luck.

[dmitc]

To change that seal, you'll need to move the pulley and the timing gear.

Now to move the pulley is easy, you could easily use a standard puller like this that's available in most parts places.


But do it carefully because the edges are very fragile and can chip easily, however, yuh see dem two threaded holes on the spokes?

I tried using the larger pullers but that just damaged the edges og the pulley so i'll see if i could pick up one of these smaller ones, i had not thought as far as the timing gear but i really should pressure since saturday i trying to take this thing out

[Hook]

Yeah, the timing gear is a pain in the ass.

Since I couldn't find the gear puller I needed (last pic), I ended up having to chisel mine off the oil unit housing with a wide balljoint pry tool (thankfully I didn't crack the housing or touch the crankshaft) and "walking" it out with two (sacrificed) flathead screwdrivers.

[dmitc]

well i just bought the gear puller $400 *pressure* the place also had the secound on for $175 but i opted for the first since i'll use it for both pluuley and gear *fingers crossed*

[dmitc]

well i just finish pulling off the pulley, *pressure* now i see the timing gear and ah feel like giving up *shakes head*

[dmitc]

anybody scrapping a 20v block i need to get an undamaged timing gear

[Hook]

Oh here's some links to vacuum lines in case anyone was wondering if they got theirs correct.

http://www.my-acoustic.com/Car/vacuum/4 ... vacuum.htm

http://www.my-acoustic.com/Car/vacuum/v ... _lines.htm

[trd3740]

can anyone tell me wat is the ideal pressure to run a regulator at on a 20 vavle st

[Hook]

For a FPR? I was reading up on that yesterday actually.
Methinx the stock pressure at idle is between 28-33psi and I was reading that folks have had good results at 44psi (3bar?).

Make sure you have a good FPR tho. I've been reading about the cheaper no-brand ones spiking to 6bar or leaking prematurely.

What type are you using?

[trd3740]

im using a cheap one for the while

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 1125968239

if u cant se the pics add me

[gt4tified]

As we’re on the topic of fuel, what is the volume that the OEM fuel pump flows for those vehicles that came with the black top? And would substituting say, a 255lph pump be too much for a stock engine, but with an increased base pressure at idle of 42psi?

[Hook]

Ralph, remember it's one or the other eh. With stock regulator, a bigger pump will increase FP anyway, but you're putting a FPR to bring base pressure to 42psi regardless of what's happening at the pump.
I don't have it in LPH, but I've read it's around 70psi.
I'm still looking for volume, return ratio etc. But I feel we'll hafta actually measure it ourselves

trd3740, doh let Avi chain yuh up to spray paint anything else on dat engine eh

[gt4tified]

Ralph, remember it's one or the other eh. With stock regulator, a bigger pump will increase FP anyway, but you're putting a FPR to bring base pressure to 42psi regardless of what's happening at the pump.
I don't have it in LPH, but I've read it's around 70psi.
I'm still looking for volume, return ratio etc. But I feel we'll hafta actually measure it ourselves

trd3740, doh let Avi chain yuh up to spray paint anything else on dat engine eh

I guess you’re talking about fp BEFORE the regulator, right?

Well in this case, that is not the reason for the client’s decision.

Most aftermarket pumps while they may deliver fuel at a slightly higher pressure, are designed for higher volume rather than pressure, so that you can use a slightly larger fuel line, aftermarket rail or injectors and not have to worry about insufficient fuel delivery, and pressure drops (BEFORE THE REGULATOR). And since many aftermarket afpr’s are designed to control pressure via the return line, we make to believe that volume and pressure are one and the same.

It therefore does not matter whether a pump puts out 50, 60 or 70psi of pressure - its the job of the fpr to maintain a particular fuel pressure, but too high a fuel pressure may after a while damage the diaphragm in a stock regulator, which is why most performance setups boast both an aftermarket pump and fpr.

In this particular example before me, the client has a 20v BT but in a vehicle that was not designed with a pump for that engine. So after many miles of driving, the OEM pump is worn and the filter on the pump is dirty, thus the engine is not getting the amount of fuel it needs and since the pressure the pump is putting out is less than what the regulator is designed to control...he is breaking up and stuttering when the pump is still on the lower voltage circuit.

My recommendation was to change the pump and put in an aftermarket one. The client said that he wants to at the same time, change the fpr to an aftermarket one too. Since this seems like a commonplace mod, I held no objection, as long as he gets a good fpr and not the ebay crap for $30.

[dmitc]

anybody scrapping a 20v block i need to get an undamaged timing gear

got it finally so by weekend by baby should be up and running