Hybrid 165 Fielders and Axio specific

[venum]

on premium so far used 2 bars and got 162.5km with 66km on ev

[ramishrrr]

Unlike cars powered only by an ICE, the hybrids cannot rely on a brake booster to amplify the force of your leg pressing the brake pedal.
The vacuum from the ICE inlet manifold operates on the diaphragm of the booster, which pushes the piston of the master cylinder to give tremendous hydraulic pressure to the slave cylinders at the wheels.
The ICE on the Hybrid runs intermittently, so you cannot have continuous vacuum to operate a booster..

Of course, while there is no vacuum booster, there is a device connected to the brake master cylinder, which I feel has some sort of electrical hydraulic pump to amplify the brake fluid pressure. (I am subject to correction.) I have a motorcycle that came with two pumps in the ABS unit. Without the ignition on, there was almost no brakes. Switch it on, and you had brakes to kill ! You actually hear the whine of the pumps, when you applied brakes.

I know we will learn more much later, as the intent of this post is to highlight that the feel, and stopping power of the brakes is different from a ICE Fielder. The brakes slows down the car as normal when you are doing............lets say 60 KMH. However, as you slow down behind another vehicle, let's say, coming to a stop you'd better press harder. It feels a little like brake fade, although I know it is not. You feel the car running up to bang the car in front of you. I do not know if this have anything to do with regenerative braking systems, but I've felt this in all the Hybrid Fielders, Axios and Aquas I have driven. The brakes are not linear.
I think, that to increase braking power, Toyota increased the diameter of the rotors in front, and the drum at the back, ( I am again subject to correction)
It means that we have to get well acquainted with the feel and operation of the braking system before we enter any Gumball Rally with a Hybrid.

Peace.
R.R.

[jl0908]

i came across this post, not sure how accurate it is but I thought it should be shared-
*Powered by a 1.5-liter Atkinson-cycle engine that develops 74 HP and 111 Nm (81 lb-ft) of torque. It is backed up by an electric motor that has a maximum output of 61 HP (45 kW) and 169 Nm (124 lb-ft) of torque. This enables the model to have a combined output of 100 HP.
Fuel tank capacity‎: ‎36 L | Fuel consumption‎: ‎33 km/L (1,188kms per tank of fuel on average)*

[venum]

Of course, while there is no vacuum booster, there is a device connected to the brake master cylinder, which I feel has some sort of electrical hydraulic pump to amplify the brake fluid pressure. (I am subject to correction.)

However, as you slow down behind another vehicle, let's say, coming to a stop you'd better press harder. It feels a little like brake fade, although I know it is not. You feel the car running up to bang the car in front of you. I do not know if this have anything to do with regenerative braking systems, but I've felt this in all the Hybrid Fielders, Axios and Aquas I have driven. The brakes are not linear.

Peace.
R.R.

There is an electric pump, it activates when you open the door, its on the ABS pump I believe. I also am subject to corrections on this until i do further research.

Most likely it is the brake accumulator pump, which generates pressure for the power brakes
https://priuschat.com/threads/buzzing-s ... ned.63510/

My experience is the brakes are much more grabby than faded. The regen brakes activate in MG1 (drive motor) when you apply brakes and charge the battery, its also causes an engine braking effect so there is less work done by the brake pads and rotors and drums and shoes. So Slow gradual braking is better than hard sudden stops. Brakes are a long service item in hybrids because of this.

I agree with you on the non-linear feel tho. To me it intensifies exponentially.

I have not seen that kinda mpg tho, best I got was high 600’s. However on the dashboard history gauges I have seen 1000’s. I blame our gas.

[Kyle_9449]

With regards to the electric sound when around / opening the driver door, I did a quick search and this is what I found with a good explanation so I didn't bother to dig for a link specific for axio/fielder because I believe it's the same in these cases.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f49/ ... oor-28542/

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/hs-250 ... pened.html


I don't think we would see such high km per tank of gas because of our roads, traffic and driving habits. I assume in Japan with their large road infrastructures you'd be able to drive at more consistent speeds over longer periods of time and also the HV battery would charge more frequently to high percentages which would give you more km off the electric motor especially on flat roads

[venum]

A good read on the little sister\brother to our cars

https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1122_201211

[venum]

Just an update since we having all this flood.

this is what happened to a Toyota hybrid that was flooded and submerged.

The entire battery pack needs to be removed , opened and cleaned.

THE BATTERY PACK IS NOT WATERPROOF

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START YOUR CAR IF IT BECOMES SUBMERGED TO THE EXTENT THAT THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY IS SUBMERGED

THE BATTERY PACK IS NOT WATERPROOF

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START YOUR CAR IF IT BECOMES SUBMERGED TO THE EXTENT THAT THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY IS SUBMERGED

The phone number in the pic can be contacted if this happens

[ramishrrr]

Hello Folks.
Got the registration last Friday.
Did a few things.
Painted the front grille with a metallic gunmetal.
Added a strip of the same paint under the rear windscreen.
Made a waterproof mat for the trunk.
Bought some seatcovers.
Added some DRLs behind the Grille.
Ditched the Inflator kit and got a doughnut.
Installed a Pioneer unit. The Japanese Pioneer was a very sophisticated unit, but alas................................
Insured today.
Owner gets it tomorrow.

Peace.
RR

[venum]

new owner GT there
looking good
love teh gunmetal

you said u made teh backseat mat, where did you get the sheeting?

[ramishrrr]

It is called "corrugated". Radica's Upholstery Supplies on Cipero St.
2 feet 2 inches. TT$125.
Mikey's charged TT$40 to cut it, and sew the piping around it.

There is a ready-made universal in auto-supply stores for TT$350 upward.
Cut along marks to fit.
Rubber.........too heavy.

The front is original cut pieces of 3M Nomad. Dansteel La Romain. TT$200 each.
The back is half-the-price Taiwan imitation. TT130 per foot. Dansteel.
The front will last forever.
The back has less service, Does not do well for front service.

Both catches dust and pebbles well.
Shakes off. Power washable.
Spin-dry in your washer.

Peace.
RR.

[supernedd]

Just an update since we having all this flood.

this is what happened to a Toyota hybrid that was flooded and submerged.

The entire battery pack needs to be removed , opened and cleaned.

THE BATTERY PACK IS NOT WATERPROOF

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START YOUR CAR IF IT BECOMES SUBMERGED TO THE EXTENT THAT THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY IS SUBMERGED

Flooded Hybrid battery (3).jpg

Flooded Hybrid Battery.jpg

Flooded Hybrid battery (1).jpg

Flooded Hybrid battery (2).jpg

Flooded Hybrid battery (4).jpg

Flooded Hybrid battery (5).jpg

Flooded Hybrid battery (6).jpg

Flooded Hybrid battery (7).jpg

THE BATTERY PACK IS NOT WATERPROOF

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START YOUR CAR IF IT BECOMES SUBMERGED TO THE EXTENT THAT THE HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY IS SUBMERGED

The phone number in the pic can be contacted if this happens

Can any of those batteries be saved? Whats d next step . How much to replace . Or car gonna be used without any batteries at all?

[*$kїđž!™]

Saw a PDU shut down sat night at munroe road flyover...bonnet up ..fellas trying for engine to start....some scary stuff as I was thinking bout one of these

[nismo1325]

Saw a PDU shut down sat night at munroe road flyover...bonnet up ..fellas trying for engine to start....some scary stuff as I was thinking bout one of these

saw this same thing and i was wondering if they ever got it started or had to wreck it home

[*$kїđž!™]

Yeah also woulda like to know what caused this car to shutdown...

[ramishrrr]

HOW TO JUMPSTART AN AQUA, FIELDER OR AXIO HYBRID.

The entire vehicle electrical system is 12V run by a SPECIAL 12 V Battery under back seat on the right side.
The High Voltage battery pack under the back seat, the transfer cable to the Inverter/DCtoDC Converter, the cables to and from, and including the Motor Generator 1 & 2, & The AC compressor is all High Voltage.
The current from the battery pack (HV DC) is converted to 3-phase AC to drive Motor Generator 1 which starts the engine. Motor Generator 2 drives the car. When turned, Motor Generator 1 charges the HV battery pack via the Inverter/DC to DC converter.

The control board inside the Inverter/Dc to DC Converter controls everything on the car.

There is no starter or alternator or mechanical water pump or mechanical steering pump. There is no belt.

Since everything is controlled by a 12V current, if the LV Battery (12V) is extra low (even though the HV battery pack is in great condition) there is no control and the car cannot start.

1. Locate the Fusebox on the passenger side just in front of the left shock mount.

Peace RR.

[ramishrrr]

2. Remove cover.

Peace. RR.

[ramishrrr]

See the red cover marked + in the middle ?
Raise it up.
Peace.
RR

[ramishrrr]

It covers a black plastic stub with a copper strip that faces the windscreen.
Clip your jumper cable POSITIVE to this stub, making sure that the clip jaw that has the cable attached is touching the copper strip.
The NEGATIVE jumper cable can ground on any major part of the car or engine.

Start your car. (See READY light on the dash)

"START" here, means that you power up the 12V system, not tumble a starter motor. Once the system is powered up the controller board in the Inverter/DC to DC Converter takes over. The engine does not necessarily start. If the engine has to start, power from the HV battery pack will go to Motor/Generator 1 to turn the engine. You have no control over that.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE A JUMP TO ANOTHER CAR FROM YOUR HYBRID!
The terminal in the Fuse box was not designed to handle that kind of current, nor the white cable coming from the LV battery.. But most importantly, the heavy discharge of the LV battery could have devastating effect on it, or the sensitive electronics of the control system.

The engine running will charge the HV battery pack, not the LV battery (12V). The DC to DC Converter will take HV DC (about 200+ VDC) from the battery pack, break it down to about 14.5VDC to charge the LV Battery. You have no control over that. But of course, your ignition must be ON.

The White wire in the fuse box brings current from the LV battery (12V) to supply the car. You will notice it is no really heavy gauge wire. This is because the 12V needs of the car without a starter motor is pretty small. No heavy cable is needed.

Your LV battery must not be charged externally with more than 4.0 amps for no more than 10 hours , with a special AGM battery charger. Do not replace the battery with a non AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery. Doing anything otherwise can damage the battery and the electrical system.

Peace.
RR.

[ramishrrr]

Hello all SAGABOYS who lower cars.
Please note that the Toyota Hybrid cars are not your cup of tea. They are poor candidates for Low Riders.
If you want to cut out 2 coils of spring, put on 20" rims and series 5 tyres, then your High Voltage cable will not survive all the semantics you perform to negotiate bad road or going over a speedbump.
Too, this is not a car to substitute for a boat. Water deep enough to touch your undercarraige is fatal business.

(Somebody in a previous post wanted to know if the car can run on engine alone without the battery pack. The answer is NO. While the engine runs on Low Voltage (12V), it has no starter, no alternator and an AC compressor that runs on HV.
Motor Generator 1, which is Starter and Alternator runs on HV.)

So remember in this instance, water is Enemy No. 1.

Peace.
RR

[venum]

It covers a black plastic stub with a copper strip that faces the windscreen.
Clip your jumper cable POSITIVE to this stub, making sure that the clip jaw that has the cable attached is touching the copper strip.
The NEGATIVE jumper cable can ground on any major part of the car or engine.

Start your car. (See READY light on the dash)

"START" here, means that you power up the 12V system, not tumble a starter motor. Once the system is powered up the controller board in the Inverter/DC to DC Converter takes over. The engine does not necessarily start. If the engine has to start, power from the HV battery pack will go to Motor/Generator 1 to turn the engine. You have no control over that.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE A JUMP TO ANOTHER CAR FROM YOUR HYBRID!

The terminal in the Fuse box was not designed to handle that kind of current, nor the white cable coming from the LV battery.. But most importantly, the heavy discharge of the LV battery could have devastating effect on it, or the sensitive electronics of the control system.

The engine running will charge the HV battery pack, not the LV battery (12V). The DC to DC Converter will take HV DC (about 200+ VDC) from the battery pack, break it down to about 14.5VDC to charge the LV Battery. You have no control over that. But of course, your ignition must be ON.

The White wire in the fuse box brings current from the LV battery (12V) to supply the car. You will notice it is no really heavy gauge wire. This is because the 12V needs of the car without a starter motor is pretty small. No heavy cable is needed.

Your LV battery must not be charged externally with more than 4.0 amps for no more than 10 hours , with a special AGM battery charger. Do not replace the battery with a non AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat) battery. Doing anything otherwise can damage the battery and the electrical system.

Peace.
RR.

good post, done exactly like how i was planning to do it, i had pics etc of this for a post but had not reached there because of time etc
glad to see you step up and do it and provide a even better explanation than I would have.

[venum]

Saw a PDU shut down sat night at munroe road flyover...bonnet up ..fellas trying for engine to start....some scary stuff as I was thinking bout one of these

saw this same thing and i was wondering if they ever got it started or had to wreck it home

polarity is majorly important when jump starting any car, pay attention when doing it or having it done

[ramishrrr]

SO YOUR HYBRID HAS TWO RADIATORS !

Yes folks. 2 separate crossflow radiators in one frame.
The upper, which is the larger radiator with larger hoses cools the engine. If you follow the radiator hose on the right side of the car, you will see it goes to the electric Aisin water pump. The photo shows it with rows of cooling studs on the outside. The coolant goes through the block, then the head, and comes out on the engine side close to the Inverter/Dc to DC Convertor. Too the coolant, by means of smaller hoses warms up the throttle body, and the brake module atop the engine. Also there are linework/hoses to and from the cabin heater. The coolant reservoir seems to be attached to the radiator by a port, as I cannot see an attached feed/bleed hose.
The first photo is the throttle body hoses.
The second is the Water Pump. Notice the rows of studs.



Peace.
RR.

[ramishrrr]

The second radiator, the smaller, is below. It has smaller hoses.
The Inverter coolant pump (see photo) is in front, under the Inverter. It pulls coolant from the bottom of the reservoir, sends it to the right side of the radiator. Coming out from the left side, the coolant goes into the Inverter on the engine side. It exits on the left side and enters the reservoir at the top. There is no thermostat in this system, as all the heat generated by the Inverter/DC to DC Converter must be removed.
Peace.
RR

[xVJx]

Love this thread! The wifey and i have an axio coming in next month. Nice info and i will be adding anything extra i find out as well!

What about adding a small bassline powered by the lv battery? Is paralleling another agm battery to the main battery a good idea?
I'm just curious... wifey aint gonna let me do da lol

[ramishrrr]

One has to be very careful as to using devices that would take large amounts of current from the LV battery.
The reason is that sensitive electronics monitor battery voltage, current going in and out and resistance and in some instances, temperature of the LV Battery.
The DC to DC Converter supplies charge to the LV battery.
A device like a power amplifier is not steady in its draw of current like a bulb.
As to how this would affect the operation of the system I cannot say.

In high power car audio, the addition of another battery, especially one dedicated to the audio system, required the installation of a Dual Battery Isolator. As to this application in a Toyota Hybrid, I still can't say !

Peace.
RR.

[ramishrrr]

This is not from an electrical engineer's standpoint.
It is penned for the new owner of a Hybrid to learn some about his car.
I am subject to correction.

UNDERSTANDING THE HV SYSTEM IN THE TOYOTA HYBRID.

The idea of a Hybrid vehicle having a 12V (LV) battery, as well as a HV battery pack triggers the question, “So why did not Toyota make everything 12 volt ?”
Well, to keep things simple, most of what the average gasoline car has, you would find it in the Hybrid car. The traditional lights, wiper, horn, stereo, power windows, etc, are like the traditional car. Many of the 12V components and wiring in a Gasoline Axio will be found in a Hybrid Axio.

The drive system makes the big difference.
You got two motors that are different from the usual 12V motors.

Let me explain something.
Imagine having a 6”PVC water pipe filling a 400 gallon tank. The water pressure is 12 p.s.i.
Now alongside that tank there is another 400 gallon water tank filling with a 1” PVC pipe. The water pressure is 200psi.
If you do some calculation you will find that the 1” pipe will fill the 400 gallon tank faster.
Why ? Because of a far greater water pressure.

Voltage in a wire can be likened to pressure in a pipe. If you use a low voltage to get a certain amount of current, you have to use a heavy gauge wire. If not, the wire will overheat and burn. Resistance.
If you use a high voltage to get the same amount of current, you obviously will not need a heavy gauge wire.
(Ever see how thin the high tension wires atop the high electricity poles are ? Some carry as much as 66,000 Volts !)

OK. Now, current is used to do work. Like how your it makes your starter do work to tumble your engine using current from your 12V battery. It needs plenty current, hence the heavy wire to your starter. Now once we understand voltage, if your starter was 120V, we would need a wire about the thickness of a ball point refill. Too, because the starter would be 120V, the stator coils inside would need thinner wires, The armature would have thinner wires too. So, your starter would be a smaller lighter piece of equipment turning the same engine, with greater force ! That's the benefit of a higher voltage.

Now, Motor/Generator 1 turns the engine to start it, and when it itself is being turned generates current. Motor/Generator 2 moves the car via the “transmission” and transaxle, and also generates current when it itself is being turned. Now, if they ought to be 12V, you would need pretty big motors, and pretty heavy cables. Why ?
If the average 1500cc engine is about 100HP, and your 12Vstarter motor is about 1.2HP, could you imagine the size of 12V motor you will need to build to give even 50HP ?

So what do we do ?
We build a High Voltage Motor ! And not a high voltage DC motor, but a High Voltage AC Motor ! Kudos to Inshan Ishmael !
With a high voltage 3-phase motor, you can efficiently use your current to do work............like move a car................and keep it pretty small too.
These motors are built in the transaxle and their rotors carry strong permanent magnets. So it is not a brush/commutator/electromagnetic type rotor in this motor. They are very efficient.


The HV rechargeable battery pack is made up of modules. There might be six cells of 1.2V each in a module giving 7.2V. Run about 20 modules in series until you get about 144 VDC. High Current, High Voltage. The Battery Pack generates heat as it being charged and discharged. It is kept cool by a motor blower taking air from the car's cabin. Inside the battery pack the air is channelled around the modules to maximize cooling, then exhausted through a vent.
That HV current from the battery pack goes to the Inverter via a long cable that runs under the car. The Inverter changes the current to a 3-phase AC to supply M/G 1 or M/G 2. Depending on your demand by pressing your accelerator, that voltage can be stepped up to 500V or more to supply the motor to get more work done.......speed up the car.

Yes Inshan, High Voltage indeed !
3-phase AC to MG1 the Starter/Generator.
3-phase AC to MG2 the drive motor.
Demand more, and the engine cuts in to help MG2.

When your vehicle is moving, and you tip the brakes or put the transmission in B, the motors become generators (both these motors are driven by the engine or wheels respectively). The magnetic field from the rotor induce an AC current in the stator which returns to the Inverter, which rectifies it to DC to charge the Battery Pack. The MGs generate 3-phase AC just like your alternator. But this magnetic field inside the MG, in generating the current, is using the energy from the moving wheels, so it slows the car and helps the brakes. This is called Regenerative Braking.

Because a lot of heat is involved in the inversion, there is a dedicated circulating coolant system to keep the Inverter insides cool. I discussed that earlier.

The Inverter also has the computer that controls the entire drive system. It is where the LV and HV systems interface.
The lower part of the Inverter houses the DC to DC Converter. This is where HV DC from the Rechargeable Battery pack is broken down to about 14.5V DC to charge the LV 12V battery, the Absorbent Glass Mat battery. It is this 12V DC that is needed to run the car, just like a non-hybrid vehicle. Unlike the conventional car, a running engine in a Hybrid does not charge the 12V LV battery.

Of course the components of the Hybrid are more complex than I have described, and I have purposely omitted some of the ancillaries. However, you do not need to have a Masters in electrical engineering to understand what goes on.
While I would not take the liberty to say how the other car companies developed their hybrid technology, Toyota has been in the business for 21 years. Need I say more ?
Just seeing the evolution of the system in the first Prius to what is offered today, tells us that they were light years ahead of our thinking, and that of many of the car manufacturers today who claim to have Hybrid technology.


Oh ! Please be advised that any component with the colour Orange, signifies HIGH VOLTAGE.


Peace,
RR.

[ramishrrr]

ABSENCE OF A TRANSMISSION COOLER.

In the Prius, the smaller radiator is also used to cool the transmission via an external transmission cooler. So the coolant passes through that cooler also.
The Aqua, Axio and Fielder has no such cooler.
Internally, in the Transaxle, there is a trochoidal oil pump that circulates the oil faster than on the Prius, with two jets of oil dropping on the stator windings of MG1 and MG2 to remove heat. We have to depend on surface area to do the cooling.
However, there is an external line that comes from the trochoidal pump that returns internally to the plastic tube with dual nozzles that cools MG1 & MG2.
It is possible to splice that line, and patch in an external air cooler to help keep the transaxle temp. down. Better still if you get a heat exchanger using the coolant. This would have tremendous benefit to the oil and transaxle.
In Japan, the ambient temperature is quite lower than T&T, so that maybe thats why the JDM units do not have that cooler..

Peace.
RR

[radIS300]

Good technical information, very much appreciated. Learnt alot

"Since everything is controlled by a 12V current, if the LV Battery (12V) is extra low (even though the HV battery pack is in great condition) there is no control and the car cannot start."

"Unlike the conventional car, a running engine in a Hybrid does not charge the 12V LV battery."

Kudos to Inshan!

[fielder786]

Where can I get a manual for my 2014 fielder hybrid?

[hotrod2]

Hi Guys,
Nice post I'm glad to see a thread with info on the hybrids. I'm looking to upgrade and i was thinking about these fielder hybrid but i'm still a bit skeptical about these in terms of people servicing them, parts, battery failing etc. I just would like some good advice on which should i get the non hybrid version or the hybrid. Keep up the good work guys.