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CK1 Brake Upgrade

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CK1 Brake Upgrade

Postby VashTheStampede » March 24th, 2009, 8:27 am

Has anyone ever done this or could rec something that will work....

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Postby MISHI » March 25th, 2009, 10:04 pm

MIVEC/ GSR/ EVO 1/ 2/ 3

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Postby VashTheStampede » March 26th, 2009, 7:47 am

Thanks for the info but are those straight bolt on applications or would I need some mods to apply them?

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Postby MISHI » March 26th, 2009, 8:09 am

Yes, but you will need:

[Front]

(a) The entire spindle to bolt to car

(b) Brake booster from MIVEC/ GSR/ EVO

(c) Brake Master cylinder

(d) Proportioning valve.

[Rear]

Complete rear discs with handbrake cables and trailing arm

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Postby VashTheStampede » March 26th, 2009, 12:19 pm

Thanks Mishi... now to go hunting..

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Postby *KRONIK* » March 26th, 2009, 7:00 pm

or it may be closer dan u tink......

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Postby srnoth » March 26th, 2009, 8:56 pm

Anyone considered swapping in the front brakes from a CS3? I've always found the brakes on this model were significantly better than those on the CKs. Today I took them both apart and the CS3 has larger disks than my CK1 - 10" vs 9", and they're also noticeably thicker. They also seem to bolt on to the CK without any modifications - all you have to change are the disk, the caliper and the caliper bracket, or so it would seem. I fitted one side up today and it seemed to work, going to the bamboo saturday to see if I can source some spare CS3 brakes to test it out. Should be easier to source than Evo/GSR/Mivec brakes, and won't need to change bolt pattern either.

Before I go and spend my money though, anyone tried this before? Any thoughts?

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Postby srnoth » March 26th, 2009, 8:57 pm

Oh and what is the disk size on the Mivec brakes?

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Postby MISHI » March 26th, 2009, 10:35 pm

^ GSR, 1.8 Libero 4WD and MIVEC is 254mm in front... can't remember rear... might be 205mm or so.

Evo 1/ 2/ 3 is 276mm with 2 pot calipers. Better than the GSR but those are still a significant upgrade to the stock CK1

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Postby srnoth » March 26th, 2009, 11:33 pm

MISHI wrote:^ GSR, 1.8 Libero 4WD and MIVEC is 254mm in front... can't remember rear... might be 205mm or so.



"Takes out measuring tape to see how long 254mm is in inches" :oops: :lol:

Well 254mm is 10" exactly, so it would seem that the CS3 disks are the same size as the CK Mivecs. Would that mean that they would work as well? Starting to look like a good idea lol.

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Postby srnoth » March 30th, 2009, 1:29 am

Okay well they fit up almost perfectly... just had to bend the guard behind the disk a little to get the larger disks to fit. Everything else just bolts on.

But.

The pistons are larger, and it seems that the stock brake system can't handle them. The problem is that they engage a lot further down the pedal. If you are moving and mash the brakes, the car only starts to stop when the pedal is almost to the floor, you get no resistance before that. However, pump the brakes a couple times and they hold damn well, engaging close to the top. But come off the brakes for a few seconds and mash again, and again the pedal goes almost to the floor.

That's the symptoms. From reading around on the internet, some people say you need a bigger master cylinder (makes sense, bigger calipers = more fluid needed to fill them, small cylinder simply doesn't hold enough). Other have said you just need to change a valve (I believe it was the proportional valve) and that would solve the problem.


Does anyone have any advice on this? I am trying to figure out the cheapest upgrade possible for us CK men. So far I've paid $600 for a pair of disks, calipers and caliper brackets off of a foreign used cedia (CS2 or 3). That's already a lot better than upgrading to mivec or gsr brakes which would mean changing rims as well. So trying to minimize the number of parts I would have to swap out. Really don't want to have to change the whole master cylinder/brake booster and proportioning valve.

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Postby Sanctifier » March 30th, 2009, 6:49 am

srnoth wrote:...But... The pistons are larger... they engage... when the pedal is almost to the floor... bigger calipers = more fluid needed to fill them, small cylinder simply doesn't hold enough. Other have said you just need to change a valve (I believe it was the proportional valve) and that would solve the problem.

...Really don't want to have to change the whole master cylinder/brake booster and proportioning valve.

IMHO just install the corresponding Master cylinder & Booster from the "doner" model...

The "proportioning valve" solution may be a short-cut... but will not be as reliable as
the OEM Master cylinder/Booster option... Problem solved... Permanently! :wink:

My $0.02¢

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Postby *KRONIK* » March 30th, 2009, 7:53 am

agreed............

i found that upon upgrading my booster/mastercylinder to mivec (15/16)
my brake engages a lot further up the pedal thann with the original (7/8)

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Postby MISHI » March 30th, 2009, 9:36 am

The Booster on the uprated Models should have the proportioning valve.

You should be able to get one from a non ABS Galant or the 1.8 Libero if need be.

Image

WARNING!

As you can see in the picture, there are are six ports. every NON ABS valve such as this will ALWAYS have the master cylinder ports (the ones facing up in this image) closest to the FRONT ports for your brakes and they will always be at right angles to each other.

So when installing your uprated booster and valve, make sure to trace your front brake lines and attatch them to the ports CLOSEST to the master cylinder ports, else you will find the car doesn't wish to stop or worse, you spin out.

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Postby srnoth » March 30th, 2009, 7:50 pm

Ok cool thanks for the responses guys... will visit the bamboo tomorrow.

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Postby srnoth » March 31st, 2009, 3:17 pm

Just a bit of an update... I rechecked both front brakes and found that one of the brakes pads was not seated properly, causing a rubbing noise and, apparently bad brake performance. The brakes now engage slightly higher up (the CK brakes always engaged kinda low), so it is now at an acceptable position. I will try to get the CS booster and master cylinder installed when I get a chance.

Here are the before and after pics:
Before:
Image

After:
Image


Not bad for a $600 upgrade. Noticeable improvement over the 9" CK brakes, car stops a lot easier, and brake fade is also noticeably less.

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Postby TechArt » March 31st, 2009, 7:47 pm

Well done DIY upgrade, should get a lil sticky status for the mods.

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Postby Sanctifier » April 1st, 2009, 4:09 am

TechArt wrote:Well done DIY upgrade, should get a lil sticky status for the mods.

sticky status...Yup!

Excellent DIY Upgrade Review, srnoth ... 10 points :!:

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Postby VashTheStampede » April 1st, 2009, 7:18 am

Nice info man :D hope to do mines soon...

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Postby SCHOLARS » April 13th, 2009, 2:22 pm

ck6 spindle and rotor with evo 3 or 4 calipers. stay away from mivec booster look for evo or something else. mivec brakes are ah waste of time

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Postby srnoth » April 13th, 2009, 2:34 pm

Just an update on the CS3 upgrade... solved the problem with the low pedal... turned out I'd installed the left side caliper on the right and vice versa. They look almost identical except that when installed the wrong way round, the bleeding valve is pointing down instead of up, leaving air trapped in the calipers. Swapped them round, bled the whole system, adjusted the pedal height & free play as per the manual, and now the brakes are working perfectly. Easy to lock up the front wheels even at high speeds. Now to upgrade the back!

Also note I tried installing the CS3 booster & master cylinder. There are two types - a wider one which will not fit in the CK and a longer one which fit, but the pedal height is wrong and it didn't really have any improvement over the stock CK booster & cylinder. Went back to stock and the brakes work much better.

So that puts the grand total at $600 plus a bottle of brake fluid to bleed the system. Definitely worth the money. (Of course this is not counting the 4 days the car was down while I tried to figure out what was causing air to be trapped in the system... could have kicked myself when I realised what the problem was :lol: )

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Postby A.W.O.L » April 13th, 2009, 4:29 pm

all part of the learning process...cuz now u could advise me on how to go about upgrading my cs2a lancer front an rear brakes... 0X

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Postby srnoth » April 13th, 2009, 10:04 pm

^^Lol... I don't think Mitsubishi make and brakes larger than the ones on the CS with 4 x 100 spacing... you would have to look at upgrading your spindles as well, either to the 4 x 114 and using CK Mivec brakes, or upgrading to 5 hole spindles and using the brakes from an Evo 7 - 9.

You could also look into the brakes from the 1.8L Ralliart CS lancers (CS4?)... not sure what size brakes they used but they're likely to be better than the stock CS brakes.

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Postby chindian88 » March 15th, 2010, 8:21 pm

just came across this post from another and i might be buying a pair of f/u calipers soon for the CK). either the guide pins or the holes for them worn or both.
so now i think i just gona get a pair from the CS like what srnorth did and upgrade the front brakes.

already have the rotors in the back.

oh i also have the model with ABS, but i don't think that doing this upgrade should interfere with it, right?
seeing that the sensor points on the C.V. joint

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Postby God Bless the Black Top* » March 16th, 2010, 11:28 am

yunno, don't always need to 'drop-in' a system to get results.

what you can do is:

- upgrade your brake fluid to one with a higher boiling points, i.e. dot 5.1 (something that can be used in dot 3 and 4 systems/non-silicone)

- steel braided lines

- better brake pads

- better rotors (slotted/drilled)

- master cylinder brace

and yuh safe! unless yuh toting real heavy power (and feelings) and need something more substantial? but is a NA 1.5?

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Postby chindian88 » March 16th, 2010, 12:05 pm

yes yes its a NA 1.5 but i might go 1.8 if i could afford when the time comes.

and seeing that i'll be needing a pair of calipers, i thought i'd just get the ones for the CS seeing that they're a bit bigger and line up without any probs.

and then if i do get the 1.8 i could add in all the stuff you mentioned.
hopefully its still around the same price.

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Postby God Bless the Black Top* » March 16th, 2010, 12:12 pm

^ i personally don't think it's necessary to go with a whole different setup for the 1.8 NA.

i think once you work over your current setup, it should be fine. it would be such a shame if you bought all those bits and spent all that money, to receive the same pedal pressure and response.

have you driven a CS? have a you felt a significant difference?

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Postby God Bless the Black Top* » March 16th, 2010, 12:13 pm

oh and good tyres will also make a substantial diff.

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Postby srnoth » March 16th, 2010, 1:49 pm

Whiles I agree that you can work on the current system... I can also assure you that the braking system in the CS is much better than the CK.

CKs are known for their rather crappy braking setup.

Besides... it actually is cheaper, esp since he's buying new calipers anyway, to just get bigger disks one time. Those other upgrades you mentioned can be a lot more trouble.

With this upgrade... takes about an hour to remove old parts and install new ones.

So yes there are other things you can do as well... but this one is definitely worth it.

By the way don't forget that with the bigger calipers, you will need the bigger caliper brackets too. So the three things you need are bigger disks, calipers and caliper brackets. Plus some extra brake fluid for bleeding the new calipers.

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Postby srnoth » March 16th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Oh and just to clarify... you DON'T need the booster or cylinder from the CS. The CK one works fine... just remember to install the calipers the right side round lol! (with the bleeding valve pointing up). So this doesn't need to cost more than $600 plus a bottle of brake fluid.

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