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CARVtech wrote:Just an update on what we have learned about this (Evo X) platform so far:
EFI:
TPS and IACV are one unit and is Throttle by wire; prone to failure and usually starts out with unstable and temperamental idle. Started with the 08 models and was eventually repaired by Mitsu with a software upgrade and also a hardware upgrade. Mitsu Trinidad is not able to support these problems.
These cars literally learn how to idle.
The OEM system is very complex in how it builds final Fuel and Ignition maps. If everything (sensors) and hardware (turbo, manifolds, recirc valve, etc) are not bone stock the system quite literally gets confused..........unless you have access to base mapping, understand the ECU logic and know how to recalibrate sensors, do not play around with these cars.
The MAF Sensor is prone to failure, larger piping, poor filtration, larger flow turbos without re-calibration of the MAF signal..........it will fail.
The MAP Sensor signal feeds a logic loop in the fuel and ignition control system, if you change the basic characteristics of the induction “system” (turbo, inlet piping, intercooler, exhaust manifold) you need to re-calibrate the system so that the logic loops do not get fed data that cannot be accurately processed.
Yes all the parts in the brackets are available for these cars, plus cams and more, yes they can be fitted with no “apparent” problems to the driver, but, it takes quite a bit more to extract the bang for the buck………efficiently.
Yes any clown can read an SAE standardised engine code if the engine light comes up. Problem is that code may be “as a result of” and not because you have a hardware problem.
Boost Control:
An after-market Boost Control Unit is a complete waste of time unless the OEM system is set up to allow it. Yes you will get more boost, but you WILL NOT have proper control of ignition and fuel mapping, as within the OEM logic and algorithms the two are interlinked. It is not a simple look-up table.
Recirculation Valve:
Simple........everybody does it, replace with a BOV, the ECU hates it and you will eventually fail the system. If you want, forget the nice sneeze between shifts and fit an upgraded recirculation valve.
Keyless Entry System (KOS):
Do NOT install an after-market Security system.
DO NOT install a Turbo Timer.
If the doors are locked and the engine is on, the key is out the car, but the ignition is in the off position, the ECU/KOS/ETACS cannot handle the hard-wiring and logic. The ETACS is likely to fail, or the system can go into a high-level security shut down......Mitsu Trinidad cannot help you on their own.
There have been at least 4 that we know of, that have or had security system / ignition key problems.
ETACS:
This is the "main server" in the Mitsubishi hard wiring between all of the Electronic Control Units. All of the logic and request / approval is handled on multiple CAN Bus pairs. If you start playing with hard wiring, taking power from "just anywhere" under the dashboard or in the engine bay, you run the risk of "overloading" circuits and compromising logic loops.............you run the risk of ETACS failure.
DO NOT play around with the hard wiring in these cars. Adding systems into the electronics is a recipe for problems and if not done correctly, ETACS failure. You cannot “simulate” CAN signals, so you would not be able to “by-pass” failed systems or get around logic built into the systems, if you have partial or full ETACS failure.
CAN Protocol Networks:
This was developed by BOSCH years ago and in short it is a multiplex control system that has in-built very high level redundancy on a twisted pair hard line. Most of the OEMs are using it now and it is great, reliable and cost effective. Problem is that there is no back door for someone to get in and change things. Think of the LAN network in your office, back when people used to have a main server. All the computers were running Windows so anyone with the understanding and access rights could manipulate the system, from any terminal. Now remove Windows, throw away all the IP addresses on record, switch off all the monitors and try to print a test page on the shared printer……….yes it’s possible, but it takes someone with very special skills and understanding. To the aftermarket, this is the situation with CAN Protocol. It can be learned, it can be interfaced, it can be manipulated…………..but there are very few people that know it or have hardware interface capability.
Clutch Master Cylinder:
A big piece of plastic crap. Upgrade your pressure plate / clutch and it’s only time before the Clutch Cylinder housing separates along the stuck together bonding line. Remove the heat shielding between the turbo and the Clutch Cylinder and you will be lucky to make a down shift at the end of the highway……..especially if you were running hard through the gears on the way. Yes there are a few options for fitting a re-enforcement ring, but if you can, replace the whole thing with a more conventional cylinder assembly.
IN GENERAL:
We live in Trinidad and do not have access to Dealership Services of any reliable technical level. We are Trinidadian, so we can F*** with anything that everybody else thinks is impossible. Because of this, when you get your dream list for your X, your mechanic is not going to tell you NO.
Mitsu Trinidad cannot help you very much with these cars, there are not enough of them routinely in for service, they do not have all the interface tools required, they have to learn on your car if there is an attempt to assist you. Trinidad is not a designated support location for the X platform.
The fact with these cars is that they are so electronically complex, especially the security systems, that if you do have a problem……..yuh panda might be able to hard wire it, but I guarantee you will damage something else.
My advise: unless you want to go to the extreme with COMPLETE purpose built power modifications from proven suppliers………….do not mess about with these cars. You will spend loads of money, you will keep running into problems that you will be told are as a result of “having to do, because”, you will spend more money, you will get frustrated and then you will sell what started out to be a quirky but damned good car.
I would almost take a bet that the EVO-X’s in Trinidad are going to be locked in garages over the years, not like the previous models that you can see still driving around with no real problems. How this would affect their re-sale, I suspect very very negatively.
NONE of the aftermarket stand-alone systems are catered toward the street. They are intended for competition vehicles. The very few that offer a streetable system offer it to the USDM and are not interested (even if you are willing to pay) in testing or developing something for the JDM. If you want to keep your X on the street with “big power” you are on your own. If you do go to the likes of the “re-flash” market then you are OK, but a box Lancer with an SR going to embarrass you………bad!
This sounds all very negative, it is!
BUT, if you know what you want, know how to go about it, have the resources to do it and have support that is competent, then these cars can be great and very satisfying to the owner.
PCJ-110:
What we are doing with this car is exactly what this note warns you not to do. We are on our own and so far NOBODY has been able to offer us assistance or knowledge. This car is and continues to be a rolling test bed on the OEM control systems. The goal is not to make the most horse-power, but it is to make enough to be scary, reliably and safely, and without the loss of OEM functionality (and keep the box Lancer in the rear view). As far as we are aware some of the things we have done, and plan to do, have not been done by anyone. Some of the hardware has been custom made as will be some of the planned electronics.
Big thanks to Mitsubishi Trinidad for all the help so far (yes you in particular if you read this)
The owner is probably the most steadfast customer that I have had. This car is a huge personal pride and has been like raising a child…….it takes time to develop from scratch.
Is a pity you cannot hit it a lash an make it learn!
And so much easier to upgrade too! My sympathy goes out to all E10 owners... with & without LARGE wallets.Kronik wrote:i so love having my old evo, so much less problems
, RalliArt and so many others achieved nearly 13 years ago. Kronik wrote:i so love having my old evo, so much less problems
No hate there, my friend... just dislike... Feel free to disagree with me at any time... It's only my newbie opinion...Sanctifier wrote:Not knocking anyone's opinion, especially the OP. IMHO kudos to him for a VERY brave move and a great "build"...
...confirms my doubts and continued dislike of the E10 (upgrade $$$, excessive weight & intrusive electronic control - engine & handling)...
...(Evo X) has the best technology... Okay, if you want to pay so much more, no problem my friend.Sanctifier wrote:My dislike is for the unnecessary EXTRA 800 lbs. of an Evo X MR compared to Evo 6 RS...
My dislike is for the unnecessary EXTRA electronic complexity that prevents 2nrs from easily doing engine & drivetrain upgrades...
My dislike is for the unnecessary EXTRA COST of those upgrades... compared to older Evo models, even today.
Sanctifier wrote:Because of the extra complexity and cost involved, this Evo X build interests me even more than usual.
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