gdi gone mad

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 4th, 2012, 12:33 pm

hey happy new years guys !!

i have a 4g93 gdi engine in a cs2 lancer with a tiptronic transmission( bought it like that)................theres a strange problem that i"m getting :roll:

.......................the car would lose normal rpm progress and lower at under 3000rpm and car would just starve for power...........i would then take my foot off the gas and then gradually and gently increase speed to get the car going...however if i press harder the car would jerk violently...........my first thought was that the magnet in the throttle body came loose................but then the previous owner said he had the same problem and it was the fuel pump (tank).................so i replaced the fuel pump no changes i looked for the external can't seem to locate it im beginning to give up! :cry:

.is there even any?...............i realise mechaic men does real bad talk gdi because they cant diagnose the problems( dont have a clue) in these makes properly..........so im lookin for some help from you guys.......... i decided to check to see if the throttle "flap" was sticking or was too loose and found that when i depressed either side it would release good enough.................it needed a little cleaning though so i sprayed it wit throttle body cleaner (YELLOW CAN)......mounted up back burned it up when the car started ...............soooooooooooo i took the car for a spin and wow in transmission mode she realll work good i mean softer pedal and thing and quick quiet acceleration............buttttt when i put her in manual mode to my greatest surprise the car jerked violently so i put her back on trans mode asap......but still the problem continued with little or no throttle response....i baaaaarely made it home at about 600 rpm idle............i checked and found that only two cylinders were firing and no. 1 and no.4 injectors went off suddenly......so i repeated the throttle clean and generously sprayed while my wife was keeping the rev steady and every thing came back online(.injectors and normal idle).....................when the stuff burnt out i reset the brain too............and she working great.EXCEPT that i cant go to manual because the violent jerking would start and unless i spray some cleaner into the throttle .......the no.1 and 4 injectors wont come back on.............. i cant do this alone i need your help.........or a knowledgeable and informed mechanic who eh fraid ah challenge!...........thanks in advance ........my other ride is a ck4 with a 4g92 .no real probs there (knocks on wood)

could the injectors be clogged?
is my tranny in trouble?
is it the fuel filter?
or did i do something really wrong?
is it the tps sending craszy signals to the ecu?

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 4th, 2012, 9:18 pm

anybody?

rollingstock · Postby **rollingstock** » January 4th, 2012, 9:31 pm

Get it scanned. It sounds suspiciously like the throttle magnet but it doesn't add up. Could be a faulty high pressure regulator.
Pointing at the injector doesn't make sense because the intake manifold is separate from the injector rail, the spray would end up in the combustion chamber and not pass through the injector.
Could also be your coil packs if you are not getting plugs 1 & 4 not to fire.

TeamH2O · Postby **TeamH2O** » January 4th, 2012, 10:00 pm

having that problem now and i eh getting time to go plug in the big black box in the firewall(the new box that is)

More than likely it can be that box being troublesome. That box controls the injectors and coilpacks, and someone told me it also messes with throttle.

The car feels like its dead or trying to get power but nothing, but gradually pressing on nuetral is will rev up. Also sometimes sound like a missfire if u driving and trying to press.

Big Z · Postby **Big Z** » January 5th, 2012, 6:47 am

1. Work on your punctuation. It's quite terrible. I ignored the post yesterday due to the disgusting layout.
2. Swap around your spark plug coil packs to see if the coil packs have failed or are failing.
3. If coils 1 & 4 are still not getting signal, there may be a wiring issue or the ECU may be faulty.

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 4:22 pm

Big Z wrote:1. Work on your punctuation. It's quite terrible. I ignored the post yesterday due to the disgusting layout.
2. Swap around your spark plug coil packs to see if the coil packs have failed or are failing.
3. If coils 1 & 4 are still not getting signal, there may be a wiring issue or the ECU may be faulty.

"so i repeated the throttle clean and generously sprayed while my wife was keeping the rev steady and every thing came back online(.injectors and normal idle).....................when the stuff burnt out i reset the brain too............and she's working great EXCEPT that i cant go to manual because the violent jerking would start back and unless i spray some cleaner into the throttle .......the no.1 and 4 injectors wont come back on".........

Sorry about the punctuation and the poor layout but I was in a bit of a hurry to leave for work!.

With reference to you recommendations:

"2. Swap around your spark plug coil packs to see if the coil packs have failed or are failing.
3. If coils 1 & 4 are still not getting signal, there may be a wiring issue or the ECU may be faulty."

I did exactly that and found that the coil packs are functional,also did a scan and found that the injectors are pulsing normal.............. now i'm gonna try the magnet on the throttle and then the "blackbox on the firewall'..........so

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND INFO SIR

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 4:22 pm

Big Z wrote:1. Work on your punctuation. It's quite terrible. I ignored the post yesterday due to the disgusting layout.
2. Swap around your spark plug coil packs to see if the coil packs have failed or are failing.
3. If coils 1 & 4 are still not getting signal, there may be a wiring issue or the ECU may be faulty.

"so i repeated the throttle clean and generously sprayed while my wife was keeping the rev steady and every thing came back online(.injectors and normal idle).....................when the stuff burnt out i reset the brain too............and she's working great EXCEPT that i cant go to manual because the violent jerking would start back and unless i spray some cleaner into the throttle .......the no.1 and 4 injectors wont come back on".........

Sorry about the punctuation and the poor layout but I was in a bit of a hurry to leave for work!.

With reference to you recommendations:

"2. Swap around your spark plug coil packs to see if the coil packs have failed or are failing.
3. If coils 1 & 4 are still not getting signal, there may be a wiring issue or the ECU may be faulty."

I did exactly that and found that the coil packs are functional,also did a scan and found that the injectors are pulsing normal.............. now i'm gonna try the magnet on the throttle and then the "blackbox on the firewall'..........so

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND INFO SIR

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 4:35 pm

rollingstock wrote:Get it scanned. It sounds suspiciously like the throttle magnet but it doesn't add up. Could be a faulty high pressure regulator.
Pointing at the injector doesn't make sense because the intake manifold is separate from the injector rail, the spray would end up in the combustion chamber and not pass through the injector.
Could also be your coil packs if you are not getting plugs 1 & 4 not to fire.

i agree but first I will check the fuel pressure regulator and then the throttle then the box on the firewall.i will let you guy know if i get the problem solved..........and thanks much man

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 4:37 pm

hey computerz and parts guy thanks I never knew the function of that black box man!

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 4:43 pm

Does anybody know where the external fuel filter is on the cs lancer or if there is any at all ? ...........

this is what I checked so far guys:
1.fuel pump front and rear
2.injectors
3.coilpacks
so far they all work fine...........

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 4:46 pm

hottrod317 wrote:hey computerz and parts guy thanks I never knew the function of that black box man!

oh be sure to let me know if it works and can you also let me know where you bought it?

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 5th, 2012, 7:14 pm

My cooling fans are connected directly!, can that interfere with the system or be related to the problem that I'm having?

Big Z · Postby **Big Z** » January 5th, 2012, 7:35 pm

hottrod317 wrote:My cooling fans are connected directly!, can that interfere with the system or be related to the problem that I'm having?

Very unlikely.

Unfortunately, I can be of very little assistance anymore, as I am unfamiliar with the GDI engines.

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 6th, 2012, 1:25 am

that's okay man thanks though

rollingstock · Postby **rollingstock** » January 6th, 2012, 5:39 am

The fan being run direct will not cause those problems.

Sanctifier · Postby **Sanctifier** » January 7th, 2012, 7:05 am

hottrod317 wrote:...this is what I checked so far guys:
1.fuel pump front and rear...

Front fuel pump? Is it the High Pressure Fuel Regulator on the left hand (passenger) side of the cylinder head that you mean?

Did you check to see if the spray pattern coming out of the "jets" was okay? I had issues of fluctuating engine rpm at idle... power loss... cutting off... no acceleration... etc. :evil:

That gave me headaches for months in my wife's Galant GDI, until I stripped and cleaned the Fuel Regulator. I also replaced the Fuel Filter near the tank (NB: use OEM filter.) No problems since (5 years later.) Might be worth a try.

Sanctifier wrote:CAUTION: Things will be dirty in there... Use thin feeler gauge blades to EASE the mylar(?) plate up the supporting rods. If you break the plate then you're screwed, because I don't think you'll find a replacement locally.

I did a couple posts on this years ago. A "search" should help.

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 9th, 2012, 1:57 am

gr8 info will check that out ......thankyou

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 25th, 2012, 2:18 am

Problem solved guys!. I checked the return line from the fuel rail and observed nothing coming out which made me realize that there was a clog in it ,so after checking the main fuel lines and finding out that it was free from blockages I checked the plate where the main fuel line was connected to and saw a small opening so I used a cleaner (carb medic) with the straw and inserted it into the small opening and gave it a go.After a few minutes I reconnected the main lines, made sure no traces of fuel was present and removed the tools I used and started engine. I was amazed that it showed progress.I repeated the process twice and I have no problems thus far(two days now).The car is running,idling,reving perfect now.It should be noted that I changed the rear fuel pump from stock to an authentic Walbro pushing about 255 psi.Initially when I hooked it up and tried starting I saw the line jerk (rear) which initially made me suspect this problem and easily fix after realizing it was clogged at the fuel rail opening. It is hoped that this can assist anyone who might find themselves in the same situation as I was in. Thanks to all who gave me ideas to review.

Big Z · Postby **Big Z** » January 25th, 2012, 8:01 am

Great stuff!

Postby **crazybalhead** » January 25th, 2012, 9:19 am

That's a real tricky problem to solve boy. That's why I tell a lot of people to try and diagnose a problem themselves. mechanics just don't have the time, or the patience to look over your car, a piece of machinery you live with daily.

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 26th, 2012, 1:32 am

Big Z wrote:Great stuff!

thanks man!

hottrod317 · Postby **hottrod317** » January 26th, 2012, 1:34 am

crazybalhead wrote:That's a real tricky problem to solve boy. That's why I tell a lot of people to try and diagnose a problem themselves. mechanics just don't have the time, or the patience to look over your car, a piece of machinery you live with daily.

so true crazyballhead

enduser · Postby **enduser** » January 31st, 2012, 8:03 pm

Hey hottrod317, I have a 4G93 behaving similarly. I will try your solution and see if it works for me. Thank you for posting your solution.

Sanctifier, you indicated your were able to clean the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Is this the device attached to the engine block and have the fuel lines attached? I always thought this was a secondary high pressure pump. Anyway, that that thing seems impenetrable. How were you able to dismantle it for cleaning?

rollingstock · Postby **rollingstock** » January 31st, 2012, 8:52 pm

^ Don't go interfering with that if you're not mechanically inclined, easily spoilt and many moving parts within, including 7 pistons, if you don't know what you're doing you may never get it back together.

Just to reiterate to the original problem by the op, if your high pressure pump/regulator has never been molested you would not get this problem, the high pressure lines going to the injector rail has two small filters set into the pump, once these are in place the injector rail will remain clean of any contaminant.

If i get a chance i will post some pics of the internals of the pump.

ZeroOne · Postby **ZeroOne** » February 1st, 2012, 1:41 pm

thanks fellas good info here.

enduser · Postby **enduser** » February 9th, 2012, 7:13 am

Hello All,

Just to give you a quick update on what I have done thus far. Perhaps someone will also benefit from my experience as I did from Hottrod317 and others on this thread.

I did try what Hottrod317 had done, which is spray carb spray in the intake port of the high pressure fuel pump/regulator. This did help significantly, but I also noticed the fuel pressure from the tank was not as high as it should be. This is supposed to be in excess of 100psi. I could place a thumb on the end of the fuel line and almost block the fuel flow.

I opended the fuel tank port cover under the rear seat. For those who wish to try this, it would be a good idea to disconnect your battery first to prevent sparking. Also static discharge yourself. Keep yourself grounded at all times by simply being in contact with metal. I noticed there was a very fine powdery sediment covering the fuel filter. The inside of the tank itself did not look too bad from a rusting point of view. The rust coloured powdery substance could have restricted the fuel flow. In order to replace this filter, I needed to purchase a complete fuel pump kit. I was able to get this at Faiz Auto in Marabella. I also took the opportunity to remove the fuel tank and have it professionally cleaned and "coated". I reassembled everything drove the car. It seems to be working well but the problem of loss of power reoccured after about 4 hours of intermittent driving. In hindsight, I should have checked done the "thumb" test for the fuel pressure at the intake of the high pressure pump/regulator mounted on the engine before reassembling everything. I did not. I did the "thumb" test and pressure was low. I opened the fuel tank again. It looked clean and the filter seemed to be in good condition. There is the housing system which contains the fuel pump, filter and electrical connection; I tried to understand how it operates. After many hours of prodding and pooking and peeking, I eventually concluded that "this thing" has a fuel filter inside it, and what I had initially perceived to be the fuel filter, was really a sediment strainer. The "real" filter was inside the housing, and in my case it must have been clogged. I visited the local Mitcubishi distributor/agent and when they heard it was a foreign used car, they simply dismissed me by saying they do not have this part and never did. After visiting several supply stores, eventually Faiz in Marabella had a 95% exact replacement. The only difference was the original housing has 3 hose line connections and the 95% replacement has only 2. The missing 3rd line seems to be for "balancing and breathing". I took out the 3rd line from the original and dirlled a hole on the top cover of the 95% replacement and plastic welded the connector in. I am fortunate to have a plastic welder, which was never used. Its time came. The bonding came out quite nice. I suppose epoxy resin would do a good job too. I reassembled things again and there was a high pressure (using the thumb test) at the intake of the high pressure pump/regulator. I drive tested the vehicle and it works very well so far. I have abused it a little by suddenly depressing the accelerator pedal to max while going up an incline on the highway etc and is did not stutter. It held out. The engine even sounded like it had a larger air intake and was "breathing" better. I am getting 11.7km per Litre of fuel.

Oh, I should have mentioned this earlier. Prior to doing anything, the scanned engine error pointed to the fuel rail pressure sensor. After doing all of the above, the error has not returned and all seems well, I hope it continues. Thank God.

Thank you Hottrod317, Rollingstock and others who greatly assisted me in bringing back life to the car. My mechanic had actually recommended replacing the engine for perhaps a Nissan Almera 1.5. we need good GDI mechanics in T&T. Until this happens, threads like these are extremely important and will offer relief to the destitute and depresssed.

Cheers

rollingstock · Postby **rollingstock** » February 9th, 2012, 12:55 pm

^ glad you got through, honestly the biggest problem with these cars is the shiddy gas we get and coward lazy mechanics who refuse to work on them or educate themselves properly.

I've seen so many people complain about the High pressure fuel pump/regulator and if you realise how it is designed it would be very rare that this would go bad. I recently was looking for one to buy because of two burst ring seals, but the internals of this pump cannot really go bad unless a piston break or something and that would be a one off.

mety57 · Postby **mety57** » February 19th, 2012, 9:04 pm

hey wanted to know if this problem only occurs if the car is warmed up or did it happen at anytime

TeamH2O · Postby **TeamH2O** » February 20th, 2012, 6:25 am

Yesterday mines was working perfect, boosting all the way up (4g93t gdi) and after about 30 mins of driving, started to get a miss while cruising once in a while and then 10 mins after, cant press the pedal all the way, will just missfire, i could only cruise with little throttle.

Why would it do this? I changed 4 coilpacks yesterday bcuz of the same problem, so im thinking if a coilpack is blown, what could blow them so fast? The car was rewired last week, which fixed the problem of the car not starting for months.

Sanctifier · Postby **Sanctifier** » February 20th, 2012, 10:51 am

enduser wrote:...Sanctifier, you indicated your were able to clean the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Is this the device attached to the engine block and have the fuel lines attached? I always thought this was a secondary high pressure pump. Anyway, that that thing seems impenetrable. How were you able to dismantle it for cleaning?

Sorry for the late reply enduser. Great write-ups on your "fix" and for hotrod's "clogged fuel rail" solution. I'll remember those two in future.
Fuel Pressure Regulator/Secondary high pressure pump...Yup, that's the pig! :lol:

Looks like both terms refer to the same part.

I subsequently had to swap in another GDI engine a few years later (oil pump failure...bearings screwed.) It has been changed over the years, because IIRC the 2nd Regulator/Pump was shaped differently and wasn't as easy to open up. Looks like the "later" model is the more serviceable unit.

From these experiences it seems that the GDI is still a pretty good "lump." It just requires periodic maintenance to the fuel filter, fuel-rail and secondary pump/regulator to get reliable service. 103kW (138bhp) is good for an 1800.
I just wish it had more bottom-end torque, the Gallant is a heavy "bus" to get going.

My $0.02¢