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The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

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Lance
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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 8th, 2016, 10:48 pm

Just a quick update on things (VD estimate).

This is my second WOT pull and the first pull that isn't on wastegate boost (red is wastegate boost). Tuner is currently dialling in the boost pressure. We're more than likely hoping to hit 25PSI and then smoothly taper down to around 23. As you can see from the boost curve, still have some tuning to do on that (Together with the AVCS tuning).

Current map is setup very rich to increase the margin of safety while adjusting the boost (afr is pulled directly from my AEM WB). Timing is very conservative as well. The Tuner will probably deal with these aspects once the boost is set up (not exactly sure what his tuning strategy is but I trust his judgement).

All in all, we still have a reasonable amount of safe power on the table.

Not sure what the final power would look like. The logs are clean right now (no FLKC, FBKC or IAM issues) so I'm keeping fingers crossed.


I picked up a radiator leak on the stocker so I need to sort that out before moving on.

Edit- Better quality graph added (you can begin to see the boost coming on earlier with Revision 2- AVCS tuning)
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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby 16 cycles » February 9th, 2016, 5:24 pm

^ will take a while to dial in...keep at it....

you tuning with meth one time for safety or dialing as safe as possible without meth then adding it in for extra protection?

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 9th, 2016, 5:55 pm

I'm spraying meth right now on this setup.

A V1 AEM kit with the larger nozzle. It's definitely doing its bit to suppress detonation. Comes in progressively at around 6psi.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Dutty_S » February 10th, 2016, 1:23 am

Been talking to these guys, and looking at it for my bugeye. A bit pricey, but for those serious about datalogging, provides a nice clean installation...

https://brainiac.workshoptwelve.com/

Can even replace you climate control switches and can interface various controllers (meth-brand dependant, defi ctrller, tein edfc)

They currently have a dash kit for the GD, and the list is growing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuUbsG8DqOI

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Lance
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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 10th, 2016, 7:08 am

Dutty_S wrote:Been talking to these guys, and looking at it for my bugeye. A bit pricey, but for those serious about datalogging, provides a nice clean installation...

https://brainiac.workshoptwelve.com/

Can even replace you climate control switches and can interface various controllers (meth-brand dependant, defi ctrller, tein edfc)

They currently have a dash kit for the GD, and the list is growing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuUbsG8DqOI


The fitment and integration is on point.

What OS does it run? It seems android based.

If I'm paying that much for a setup then it would have to be able to facilitate full data logging and map editing and switching. Ideally it would need to be able to run romraider.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby 16 cycles » February 10th, 2016, 7:49 am

Image

tactrix 2.0 with sd card logging - used excel to plot excerpts from WoT throttle runs...usually plot the entire file to see if anything awry exists...

simple and effective - will integrate afrs and loads later on but resolution will decrease...

with any of the logging systems - it would be worth asking the vendors for resolution of the logs..

blanked off timing out of respect for tuner

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Dutty_S » February 11th, 2016, 8:24 am

Lance wrote:What OS does it run? It seems android based.

If I'm paying that much for a setup then it would have to be able to facilitate full data logging and map editing and switching. Ideally it would need to be able to run romraider.


My sentiments also, with regards to cost.

So far its just logging over CANbus. New product out since late 2015.

There has been some talk on romraider.com on android os being used for other than logging...with time we'll see.

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Lance
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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 14th, 2016, 7:23 pm

16 cycles wrote:^ will take a while to dial in...keep at it....

you tuning with meth one time for safety or dialing as safe as possible without meth then adding it in for extra protection?


After two additional revisions.

Boost and afr almost dialled in. Just a bit more to do on this end and then we will probably start tweaking the timing, AVCS and smoothing out the top end.

Not sure how much more she has in her within a safe margin. Waiting on the tuner's advice.
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Revision_3.jpg

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby legacyspecb » February 14th, 2016, 10:54 pm

^^ Sick gainz. Who is your tuner btw?

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby 16 cycles » February 15th, 2016, 7:22 am

nice !!!!!

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Lance
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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 16th, 2016, 8:51 am

Thanks Guys,

Its been a long time in tuning (over 5 weeks). I didn't mind though, the tuner really spent time dialling in the car and putting up with my nitpicking. I've also learnt a lot in the process. Over 11 MAP revisions thus far across idle/cruising/WOT tuning.

I think we are at a comfortable place with this setup on pump gas. Given the efficiency range of the turbo, it appears that the tuner opted to make safe power with boost rather than timing (for every PSI I was gaining about 10-12hp). Looking through my logs, the timing was always on the conservative side. I think on a Race Gas tune at 30psi this turbo should have no problem putting down 450whp.

The VD dyno attached is where the estimated power level is at (397whp/310wtq). The pulls are consistent and the graphs hold up to the relevant accuracy checks - http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-dy ... perly.html

Once everything is settled I'll take it for a pull on one of the local dynojets to compare.

I have another revision to flash but I suspect this isn't a power oriented edit to the ROM. I hit a fuel cut right at about 7400rpm on the last pull and this map is suppose fix that. We're just addressing that and making sure everything is stable across the gears.

As for the tuner- The car is being remote/e-tuned by Johnson Tuning in the US:
http://johnsontuning.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Johnson-Tuning ... 5/?fref=ts

I would highly recommend his services if you're comfortable with a remote tune. You can check out his FB page to review his work. He is well versed with practically all JDM platforms and does tuning for TurnInConcepts and FatHouse Fabrications.
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Revision_4.jpg

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby 16 cycles » February 16th, 2016, 7:47 pm

Awesome sauce...

What does one do when they've completed their tune/upgrades????

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby castortroy » February 20th, 2016, 7:07 am

Nice powaa dey

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Aaron 2NR » February 20th, 2016, 3:37 pm

How much boost?

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Lance
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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 20th, 2016, 8:38 pm

The tuner brought in the boost slowly and ramped it up to the end so that its not too taxing on the motor. So it won't be fair for me to just state a single boost number.

On the final map, I hit 24psi at about 4800rpm and it slowly increases to 26psi until around 6700rpm and then quickly ramps it up to 28psi closer to redline (it's plotted on the chart). He mentioned that the 207s really need a bit of help on top to keep the power from dropping off. This final map produces a virtual dyno estimate of 411whp/311tq.

ImageUploadedByTriniTuner1456014234.363859.jpg


Today I had Bird take it for a demanding run. IAM solid without FLKC or FBKC. After a few pulls the OEM clutch on the 5 speed is slipping a bit on the upper end of the power band. Something I'll have to address over time.

The only issue I have is that learning view no longer works on this ROM being a Carberry setup (an iteration of the Group-N ROM). I'll have to submit the rom id on the romraider forum so it can be added.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Aaron 2NR » February 20th, 2016, 9:42 pm

Nice power especially on a 5speed box.

Speaking with Ryan when we loaded the group n map on my car, the iam doesn't really function as it would on the stock map since a lot of parameters changed.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 21st, 2016, 10:13 pm

If the Group-N rom is similar to the one I'm running (which I suspect) then it's very different from a stock STi maf based rom.

It calculates engine load and fueling based from input off the MAP and IAT sensors as opposed to a mass airflow based fueling approach. Really overcomes the resolution limitations of the 16 bit ECUs.

I think the knock control strategy should be similar though.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Aaron 2NR » February 27th, 2016, 6:45 am

gonna be changing up my setup, similar to what Lance did, for a lot more cooling while racing at wallerfield.

So ac is gonna be completely removed to install a FMIC, fan cooling shroud and some other lil things.


Got a Perrin FMIC kit used from Allison, it was in a pretty decent condition and at a great price.

before
Image

after... coating done by Performance Coatings
Image

Image

Really interested to see how much "lag" you really get with a fmic compared to stock. A few friends who went this route said it isn't that much, boost come in like 500rpm later..

we're gonna tune the street map to about 300-320hp on pump gas
and the 2nd map is gonna be the race map with race gas or ethanol

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 27th, 2016, 10:57 pm

500-600rpm later for the FMIC seems about right from my experience.

I never looked back after I factored in the cooling benefit.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Aaron 2NR » February 27th, 2016, 11:40 pm

It's mainly cooling why I'm going this route for those 10laps at wallerfield... Everything on the exhaust side has been ceramic coated as well as insulated with thermal blankets...

In the process of rigging up a misting system on the radiator piggy backing off the intercooler sprayer...

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby nervewrecker » February 28th, 2016, 9:40 am

air wick told me the same thing about the FMIC vs the TMIC.

TMIC gets heat soaked easy in the hot sun and traffic. You two have me wondering now.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » February 28th, 2016, 7:15 pm

For anyone interested in logging, monitoring and understanding your engine.

I have a blue VAG OBD2 cable that I used for many years. I used it up until I got a tactix.

It won't flash but will allow you to log via romraider. A guaranteed working model.

Free to someone that will make full use of it and willing to come Arima side to collect.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby belalegosi » March 3rd, 2016, 3:13 pm

nervewrecker wrote:air wick told me the same thing about the FMIC vs the TMIC.

TMIC gets heat soaked easy in the hot sun and traffic. You two have me wondering now.


TMIC isn't the be all end all.
TMIC still has its benefits and has proven reliable. Heat soak is a pain to deal with at slow speeds but once you're moving again it cools rather quickly. I monitored this for sometime on my Spearco big TMIC with a IAT directly infront of the TB.
Speed Density folks would definitely benefit from the FMIC as heat soak can be a pain to dial in on the tune if you're not familiar with it.
MAF systems don't struggle as much with heat soak affecting the tune.

my 2cents.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby 16 cycles » March 3rd, 2016, 4:54 pm

that v-mount process west kit though...

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Aaron 2NR » March 3rd, 2016, 5:39 pm

Yeh it's lovely... Was outta my budget tho

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby 16 cycles » March 3rd, 2016, 5:50 pm

The fmic Perrin kit is a better option IMHO...heatsoak on the gda/gdb chassis is a bummer for tmic set ups...

Almost sure your timing maps would have improved for the fmic vs tmic..

OEM cars with fmic s swap out for thicker / more efficient units that help with timing...

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » March 3rd, 2016, 6:43 pm

belalegosi wrote:
nervewrecker wrote:air wick told me the same thing about the FMIC vs the TMIC.

TMIC gets heat soaked easy in the hot sun and traffic. You two have me wondering now.


TMIC isn't the be all end all.
TMIC still has its benefits and has proven reliable. Heat soak is a pain to deal with at slow speeds but once you're moving again it cools rather quickly. I monitored this for sometime on my Spearco big TMIC with a IAT directly infront of the TB.
Speed Density folks would definitely benefit from the FMIC as heat soak can be a pain to dial in on the tune if you're not familiar with it.
MAF systems don't struggle as much with heat soak affecting the tune.

my 2cents.



I would agree with this. Heat soak is predominantly an issue at idle/low movement speeds or on a dyno.

I monitored my IAT on a speed density tune (with the sensor close to the TB) and I still saw massive fluctuations in temperature when the car was standstill- even with a FMIC. It would quickly normalize once the car starts running. These temperature fluctuations would then mess with my fueling.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby castortroy » March 3rd, 2016, 6:54 pm

Most kits (including my mishi kit) has the cold side piping passing over the turbo, so wrapping the turbo and/or piping needs to be considered to keep the IAT reasonable.

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby Lance » March 3rd, 2016, 6:57 pm

castortroy wrote:Most kits (including my mishi kit) has the cold side piping passing over the turbo, so wrapping the turbo and/or piping needs to be considered to keep the IAT reasonable.


You're right.

I installed a PTP blanket and I'm still seeing significant fluctuations.

Granted that I didn't monitor the IAT variances before the blanket so I can only imagine what they were like!

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Re: The Tuning Thread- EJ Motor

Postby castortroy » March 3rd, 2016, 7:04 pm

Someone actually did that on nasioc already, a blanket plus DEI tape on the cold side (before and after of course) and the extra effort actually resulted in lower IAT's. But also in terms of actual piping, the less bends the better.

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