Successful march is successful

[maj. tom]

if is one thing trinis good at is marching and protesting, at the end of it all nothing was accomplished.

^
Here are some reasons for that:

The thing is revolution requires once special thing. Actual problems. What is an actual problem? Something that severely threatens ones chances of survival in the immediate future such as but not limited too: War, Starvation, Disease, Genocide, Slavery, etc. The government spying on the population or injustices existing in the legal system as well as financial recessions are what are known as first world problems. They are inconveniences, hardships, but not life threatening scenarios. Thus, revolutions do not incite over things that aren't real issues. This is how modern governments control their masses. As long as the population has the basic needs of food (First world is obese now), entertainment (TV, internet, etc), and shelter (most of us have housing of some sort), other issues are easily overlooked or pardoned by the population. Laziness is the most effective weapon against revolution.

In addition there now exists an incredible imbalance between the governments military power and the populations man power. Throughout history there has always been an imbalance however, up until recent times, man power was enough to overthrow or overcome most armies as armies are usually comprised of a minority of the population rather then the majority. This is still true in many undeveloped countries where revolution takes place frequently because the imbalance is not too large and actual problems exist. In the USA for example, this is different. Basic needs for survival are satisfied and the government only infringes on what we have establish as our freedoms. Additionally the US government controls a military so powerful that few other nations or armies on earth can realistically compete with it (setting aside nuclear power). Thus it does not make any sense how man power could over come this obstacle. This again discourages revolt or revolution. The only way to overcome this obstacle is to appeal to the soldiers empathy as human beings. This is a knifes edge though. It requires quite a lot of death to appeal to a soldiers empathy. Too much though, and they become desensitized and cant be stopped.

The next issue is that a revolutionary population has not existed in the developed world for quite some time. This is unlike populations in eastern europe, africa, asia, or the middle east where many generations were the children of former revolutionaries. The last successful revolution in the USA was the end of segregation. The spirit that existed then has all but died out. The revolutionary spirit now exists in two kinds of people. #1 Establish intellectuals such as Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, etc. The issue is that although they make fantastic orators and writers they fail to take actual action themselves despite their incredible power due to fame. Instead they spend their efforts pleading with the world to do that job in their stead because they care to greatly for their own self preservation and lively hoods. They mostly appeal to the second kind of people who actually do take action albeit incorrectly. These are the young adults who want to bring about revolution. They can be anything from anarchists to modern communists. Their issue is firstly that they are far too divided. Unlike with segregation there isn't any clear goal or method to bring about that change. There isn't any united purpose. As a result there is a serious lacking of direction in the revolutionary population.

The next issue is the ridiculous obsession with freedom and power of the people which leads to the notion that a revolution should be without a leader. This was the failure of the Occupy wall street movement. Despite the warnings and urgings of Slavoj Zizek who actually appeared at the protest, the protestors failed to and actually refused to put forward a leader to represent their cause. This was because of their obsession with not having leaders, their inability to cohere on their plans or structure a plan, and their inability to create a reasonable set of demands that everyone in the revolutionary population could agree with, support, and fight for. Everyone went their for their own reasons rather than for a cause. Protests exist to complain, to point out issues, but not to provide solutions to those issues. Martin Luther King Jr. on the other hand structured simple solutions to the issues which he was attempting to solve (and did solve).

The next issue is the obsession with non-violence but also the resorting to unstructured violence when non-violence fails. Non-violence is an effective way to appeal to the empathy of those who have actually been assigned to subdue the masses. However, when non-violence seems to be failing, when the police or national guard actually get violent themselves, the population turns to rioting. This is because they lack a leader and they lack direction. They act out of animalistic instinct so primitive that its very easy to compare their behavior with that of other primates. There are two solutions to this. Train the population to resist that violence peacefully and appeal to human empathy as and Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi did. Or structure violence so that its not just useless rioting. People are far too concerned for their own well being. Extreme liberals condemn much of the population for being "the subdued masses who are glued to their office chairs" however those criticizers themselves are unwilling to risk everything. I've attended a few protests and you always see the "Hard" anarchist types and modern communists running their asses off. People need to realize that to bring about change you have to be willing to sacrifice everything.

TL;DR

In short Revolution requires the following things:

Actual problems

A united cause with clear objectives and solutions

A Leader or group of leaders

A trained population to commit themselves to either violence or non violence

as explained by /u/avaslash
Citation: http://redd.it/1fe0ql





When this song becomes applicable to living conditions then you know things are really "3rd world" as a particular tuner user loves to quote across the internet.

[pioneer]

When Jack picks up steam PNM will quake and not sure who to attack, they may be so busy dealing with UNC they won't realise how many of their members would have switched sides.

Same for UNC, I wish the cabal the best on their office attainment goals for 2015, 2020, 2025.......2065

[kurpal_v2]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

[zoelikescheese]

crowd numbers are exaggerated by politicians all the time. we all want to be part of successful activities. we become pawns especially in trinidad by the people who supposedly seek to empower us.



^^ On November 15, 2003, 10,000 people did the exercises in front of the President's Office as part of activities to support a lawsuit against former Chinese president Jiang Zemin



^^More than 10,000 people take part in a jogging at the sports center in Wuhan, capital of central China's Hubei Province, Oct. 15, 2006.



^^A Funeral for a Young Police Officer Draws 10,000 Mourners

China Population: 7,096,300,000
Trinidad and Tobago Population: 1,328,019

jus sayin

[rfari]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

Its a public show of displeasure in the country's administration. Of course its not a waste

[kurpal_v2]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

Its a public show of displeasure in the country's administration. Of course its not a waste

That only works if the administration gave a fcuk, as per our discussion last night clearly they aint even bothering to look for one to give atm.


i.e waste of time/pips for PNM abroad facebook statuses

[rfari]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

Its a public show of displeasure in the country's administration. Of course its not a waste

That only works if the administration gave a fcuk, as per our discussion last night clearly they aint even bothering to look for one to give atm.


i.e waste of time/pips for PNM abroad facebook statuses

Not quite. Most issues the pp doesnt twohoots about. That doesnt mean it doesnt work. There is a loss of productivity associated with these forms of protest; time take by the workers to march, time lost by commuters affected by the march, businesses along the route that or even in the capital that lost revenue for the day because of the anticipated traffic etc.
And if the govt continues to ignore, then we may very well see heightened action

[RASC]

They should do a poll.
What number of the Top Students' of SEA of the past decade-parents-attended this march?

(Sorry for the wording)

I have a strange feeling we already know the results.

[RASC]

PNM abroad... now called "Speak out T&T" makes me ashamed to be a pnm supporter.

They appeal to the lowest common denominator.

[RASC]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

Its a public show of displeasure in the country's administration. Of course its not a waste

That only works if the administration gave a fcuk, as per our discussion last night clearly they aint even bothering to look for one to give atm.


i.e waste of time/pips for PNM abroad facebook statuses

Not quite. Most issues the pp doesnt twohoots about. That doesnt mean it doesnt work. There is a loss of productivity associated with these forms of protest; time take by the workers to march, time lost by commuters affected by the march, businesses along the route that or even in the capital that lost revenue for the day because of the anticipated traffic etc.
And if the govt continues to ignore, then we may very well see heightened action

Oh please you really think so? Stueps... how is this march any different to the levels of productivity experienced on the numerous public holidays we have?

A lot of there nonsense public holidays hurt us more than this march. I don't think the pp even batted an eye lid.

[rfari]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

Its a public show of displeasure in the country's administration. Of course its not a waste

That only works if the administration gave a fcuk, as per our discussion last night clearly they aint even bothering to look for one to give atm.


i.e waste of time/pips for PNM abroad facebook statuses

Not quite. Most issues the pp doesnt twohoots about. That doesnt mean it doesnt work. There is a loss of productivity associated with these forms of protest; time take by the workers to march, time lost by commuters affected by the march, businesses along the route that or even in the capital that lost revenue for the day because of the anticipated traffic etc.
And if the govt continues to ignore, then we may very well see heightened action

Oh please you really think so? Stueps... how is this march any different to the levels of productivity experienced on the numerous public holidays we have?

A lot of there nonsense public holidays hurt us more than this march. I don't think the pp even batted an eye lid.

Holidays are anticipated at the beginning of the year and businesses are prepared for it. A march like this on the other hand not even once

[RASC]

What does this march accomplish btw?

Like besides a good lime?

I don't think that's a positive accomplishment but ok, what else?




IMO huge waste of time

Its a public show of displeasure in the country's administration. Of course its not a waste

That only works if the administration gave a fcuk, as per our discussion last night clearly they aint even bothering to look for one to give atm.


i.e waste of time/pips for PNM abroad facebook statuses

Not quite. Most issues the pp doesnt twohoots about. That doesnt mean it doesnt work. There is a loss of productivity associated with these forms of protest; time take by the workers to march, time lost by commuters affected by the march, businesses along the route that or even in the capital that lost revenue for the day because of the anticipated traffic etc.
And if the govt continues to ignore, then we may very well see heightened action

Oh please you really think so? Stueps... how is this march any different to the levels of productivity experienced on the numerous public holidays we have?

A lot of there nonsense public holidays hurt us more than this march. I don't think the pp even batted an eye lid.

Holidays are anticipated at the beginning of the year and businesses are prepared for it. A march like this on the other hand not even once

What I'm saying is... we have a high amount of public holidays. Days which the business community of Trinbago wish didn't exist.

The march's so called disruption is nothing compared to a mid week holiday. A march on a Friday is not anywhere close to a Wednesday holiday. Tuesday workers lax. Thursday they lax again. That's 3 days.

All that to say the desired effect will not be felt. As bad as those traffic jams were... they're nothing compared to holidays. So unless a serious dent was done in ppls pockets this march will just be like any other march. "YAWN" -in the eyes lf the PP.

[RASC]

The 30, 000 extra people in town. Had to take taxis. Buy food. Some probably stayed to lime. Some had dinner. Meaning business was booming after the rally.

So if doma happy, and all the shop owners in pos that evening were happy... you think anyone gonna take notice?

Again Unless power players pocket books are hurt this march is not going to raise much notice from the pp.

[rfari]

Whooooossshhhh...
You missed the point.

[RASC]

I think you're missing mine also. Lets just leave it like that and let father time take care of the rest.

Friday let's see what happens.

[kurpal_v2]

Lol ignoring not missing.



This isn't like the 100th march since pp in power? Personally, public servants saw an excuse for a holiday to get free TSHIRT and rum so men jump out the weekend early.

[rspann]

7000 PNM supporters < 400000+ who supported the Government.We have no way of determining how many of the 400000+ is disenchanted or if any at all.That is why we must wait on a general election when it is constitutionally due to voice our dissatisfaction,otherwise anytime anybody calls for a government to step down, they might have to do so.

[rfari]

Lol ignoring not missing.



This isn't like the 100th march since pp in power? Personally, public servants saw an excuse for a holiday to get free TSHIRT and rum so men jump out the weekend early.

7000 PNM supporters < 400000+ who supported the Government.We have no way of determining how many of the 400000+ is disenchanted or if any at all.That is why we must wait on a general election when it is constitutionally due to voice our dissatisfaction,otherwise anytime anybody calls for a government to step down, they might have to do so.

What manner of monkey maths going on here?

[brams112]

March looked like a pee on them march,what were they marching for again?who still have outstanding wages or payments to collect that pee on them did not settle?let Rowlie tell them why he did not march for the unions to get settlements when his party was in government,as for Abdullah,he like Rowlie looking for a quick pick,poor fellah,like he forget when he was roughed up by the same guy they kissing up to party.

[rspann]

The police said it was 7000 people in POS on friday,thats what I'm talking about.I don't know where the 30000 came from.How many people elected (democratically)the government into power?I'm not sure, I think it was 400000+.
In a democratic country the party with the majority gets the power,isn't this what happened in 2010?,Why call for elections now?it is not constitutionally due.Wait till 2015 and vote them out if the majority is sick of them.7000 people cannot call for a government (who 400000 people voted for )to be removed,that is not democracy.
Nothing is wrong for them to call for good governance or to point out where they are going wrong (and boy are they going wrong)but the country does not need an election everytime a government makes a mistake.The people have to call on them to correct their behavior,that is the only way we will get good governance,whoever is there in power.

[maj. tom]

what happen to your Spacebar and Enter keys?

[rspann]

Not working,SIR!

[brams112]

Not working,SIR!

It gone to march

[rspann]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

[rfari]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

Nice. So what now?

[brams112]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

Nice. So what now?

Ur now wake up?

[rfari]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

Nice. So what now?

Ur now wake up?

Im up. Just trying to get to the bottom of all this side-show and fightdown u fellas tryna conduct here

[kurpal_v2]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

Nice. So what now?

Ur now wake up?

Im up. Just trying to get to the bottom of all this side-show and fightdown u fellas tryna conduct here

Only one fighting down facts is yew.

[rfari]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

Nice. So what now?

Ur now wake up?

Im up. Just trying to get to the bottom of all this side-show and fightdown u fellas tryna conduct here

Only one fighting down facts is yew.

Issa successful march. Ollur fighting down dis ting like it eh have any other pressing issues to discuss

[kurpal_v2]

Now heard on news that the head of JTUM said that the PNM outnumbered the Union members 5:1,and that the trade union had a poor showing.Validates my point.

Nice. So what now?

Ur now wake up?

Im up. Just trying to get to the bottom of all this side-show and fightdown u fellas tryna conduct here

Only one fighting down facts is yew.

Issa successful march. Ollur fighting down dis ting like it eh have any other pressing issues to discuss

*DEDZ*