TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 4th, 2018, 3:22 pm

Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Trinispougla wrote:
Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.

Trinidad must only be liberals then


Plenty ppl into the fashionable environmentally conscious trend nowadays.

But they’re shortsighted. They only looking at the benefits. They don’t see the cost.
Then you have the Dunning Krugers who are unable to realise that the majority of issues are not as simple as they are minded and continue to waste everyone's time making ignorant over-simplified arguments. to

Exhibit "Miktay"


Well that could certainly be true SB.

But the opposite may also be true: people in a weak position sometimes over complicate matters to confuse their opponents.
That's not something you have to worry about. Your arguments are too lacking in substance to be considered "complicated". You would do a lot better if you at least tried to expand on your points in a coherent manner. You statement is so full of sh!t that it is literally not worth the effort responding to it knowing that so little effort was put into making it.

Advertisement
User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 4th, 2018, 4:33 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Trinispougla wrote:
Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.

Trinidad must only be liberals then


Plenty ppl into the fashionable environmentally conscious trend nowadays.

But they’re shortsighted. They only looking at the benefits. They don’t see the cost.
Then you have the Dunning Krugers who are unable to realise that the majority of issues are not as simple as they are minded and continue to waste everyone's time making ignorant over-simplified arguments. to

Exhibit "Miktay"


Well that could certainly be true SB.

But the opposite may also be true: people in a weak position sometimes over complicate matters to confuse their opponents.
That's not something you have to worry about. Your arguments are too lacking in substance to be considered "complicated". You would do a lot better if you at least tried to expand on your points in a coherent manner. You statement is so full of sh!t that it is literally not worth the effort responding to it knowing that so little effort was put into making it.


SB: My friend...I hate to point out the obvious but if my statement iz not worth responding to...why are you responding? :?:

Am of the impression that you have something u need to get off your chest. So Ill play along.

Which opinion would u like me to clarify and expand?

a. French Rioting & EU politics
b. Renewable energy
c. Climate Change
d. Free market economics
e. All of the above
f. None of the above.

Which?

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 4th, 2018, 6:07 pm

Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Trinispougla wrote:
Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.

Trinidad must only be liberals then


Plenty ppl into the fashionable environmentally conscious trend nowadays.

But they’re shortsighted. They only looking at the benefits. They don’t see the cost.
Then you have the Dunning Krugers who are unable to realise that the majority of issues are not as simple as they are minded and continue to waste everyone's time making ignorant over-simplified arguments. to

Exhibit "Miktay"


Well that could certainly be true SB.

But the opposite may also be true: people in a weak position sometimes over complicate matters to confuse their opponents.
That's not something you have to worry about. Your arguments are too lacking in substance to be considered "complicated". You would do a lot better if you at least tried to expand on your points in a coherent manner. You statement is so full of sh!t that it is literally not worth the effort responding to it knowing that so little effort was put into making it.


SB: My friend...I hate to point out the obvious but if my statement iz not worth responding to...why are you responding? :?: Read my replies again buddy. I never gave a response to your statement.

Am of the impression that you have something u need to get off your chest. So Ill play along.

Which opinion would u like me to clarify and expand?Yours

a. French Rioting & EU politics
b. Renewable energy
c. Climate Change
d. Free market economics
e. All of the above
f. None of the above.

Which?

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 5th, 2018, 4:24 am

Startee...whaz the problem horse?

I find the substance you ask from me are lacking in your replies.

So leh we take a stab at this.

The French people have been getting squeezed for some time now. The carbon tax iz the straw that broke the camels back.

On average the French pay the second highest level of taxes in Europe at approx. 45%. The middle class iz feeling the pinch. What are people getting for these higher taxes? Not a whole lot. So they protest. French people have a history of revolts and strikes. Thiz time itz not a trade union revolt but appears to be a grass roots movement.

When polls show ~ 80% of French people support the protests the French Gubbament has a perception problem. Macron’s popularity is in the 20s. Very low. He also makes silly political statements that doesn’t endear him to leaders in other countries.

But itz not just France. For a developed area the EU as a whole has growing social unrest. Unemployment is high. Alternate movements are on the rise to take advantage of thiz disenfranchisement: the Five star in Italy, AFD in Germany, nationalists parties in Hungary, Poland, Austria. Secessionists in Spain. And Brexit in the UK.

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 5th, 2018, 2:37 pm

I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

User avatar
MaxPower
Shifting into 6th
Posts: 2036
Joined: October 31st, 2010, 2:37 pm

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby MaxPower » December 5th, 2018, 3:06 pm

France could riot....we cant


We have a Gary

redmanjp
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6024
Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 11:01 pm
Contact:

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby redmanjp » December 5th, 2018, 3:44 pm

MaxPower wrote:France could riot....we cant


We have a Gary


if we just stayed home- everyone, including taxis & maxis it could work- gary can't do anything about that because we not breaking the law

User avatar
ruffneck_12
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6128
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 3:29 pm
Location: I doh live no wey
Contact:

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby ruffneck_12 » December 5th, 2018, 9:54 pm

When they gonna protest against the migrants that messing everything up?

User avatar
zoom rader
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12609
Joined: April 22nd, 2003, 12:39 pm
Location: Bailiser House

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby zoom rader » December 5th, 2018, 11:26 pm

This will never happen in Trini as long as this goverment in power.

User avatar
88sins
punchin NOS
Posts: 4477
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby 88sins » December 6th, 2018, 6:08 am

zoom rader wrote:This will never happen in Trini as long as any goverment in power.

fixed it for ya

User avatar
zoom rader
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 12609
Joined: April 22nd, 2003, 12:39 pm
Location: Bailiser House

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby zoom rader » December 6th, 2018, 7:57 am

88sins wrote:
zoom rader wrote:This will never happen in Trini as long as any goverment in power.

fixed it for ya



Bro it did happen when a terrorist group tried to change a non PNM goverment.

Tommorow gas or food can raise under did rowdy and people will take with a smile. If it was a non weave wearing goverment then all hell will break loose.

Under the last government everyday was a protest, where are these protesters now?

User avatar
ADONI
Shifting into 6th
Posts: 2115
Joined: March 17th, 2008, 1:55 pm
Location: Next Door
Contact:

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby ADONI » December 6th, 2018, 9:07 am

zoom rader wrote:
88sins wrote:
zoom rader wrote:This will never happen in Trini as long as any goverment in power.

fixed it for ya



Bro it did happen when a terrorist group tried to change a non PNM goverment.

Tommorow gas or food can raise under did rowdy and people will take with a smile. If it was a non weave wearing goverment then all hell will break loose.

Under the last government everyday was a protest, where are these protesters now?


They peeling cassava...

goalpost
Shifting into 6th
Posts: 1929
Joined: June 24th, 2010, 8:18 am
Location: South by night, North by day

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby goalpost » December 6th, 2018, 9:22 am

Trinis does riot for ham

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 6th, 2018, 12:31 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

Startee...guess which OECD country's citizens pay the most tax as a percent of GDP.

Take one guess...

Image

https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statis ... 22770x.htm

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 6th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

Startee...guess which OECD country's citizens pay the most tax as a percent of GDP.

Take one guess...

Image

https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statis ... 22770x.htm
Yes I see. You have expertly stated your facts in an irrefutable manner. Now I'm just waiting for the punchline. What exactly are you alluding to?

User avatar
Arcmanov
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 329
Joined: August 5th, 2005, 9:27 pm
Location: Arima
Contact:

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest.

Postby Arcmanov » December 6th, 2018, 6:30 pm

death365 wrote:almost three weeks now, and they still rioting

in sweet T&T ... we liming for Christmas to Carnival... no wonder we is a 1 x 1 country (3rd world). we just sit back an take it

**** my self included , ah just switch to premium ****
Lol... not even a '2 x 4' danboidan? Yuh wicked.

User avatar
hydroep
punchin NOS
Posts: 3151
Joined: February 4th, 2007, 9:16 pm

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby hydroep » December 6th, 2018, 7:13 pm

French Revolution v2.0....:shock:

France protests: Government fears 'major violence' in coming days

The French government says it fears "major violence" in Paris on Saturday as the national "yellow vests" protest movement shows little sign of easing.

The Eiffel Tower is to close along with many shops, restaurants and museums and thousands more police will be on duty.

The government said it was scrapping the fuel tax increases in its budget - the original spark for the protests.

But broader discontent with the government has spread, and protests have erupted over several other issues.


On Thursday young people took to the streets, protesting over educational reforms.

More than 140 people were arrested when a protest outside a school in Mantes-la-Jolie in Yvelines ended in clashes with police. Dozens of other schools were blockaded in cities including Marseille, Nantes and Paris.

Students have been angered by President Emmanuel Macron's plans to change the end-of-school exam, known as the baccalaureate, which is required for entrance to university. Critics fear the reforms will limit opportunity and breed inequality.

Meanwhile, Saturday's planned rally of the yellow vests looks set to go ahead. Recent protests have turned violent, causing millions of euros in damage.

Prime Minister Édouard Philippe said that "exceptional means" would be used on Saturday. He said 89,000 police officers would be on duty across France and armoured vehicles would be deployed in the capital - the first time since 1968.

Confirming that the fuel tax had been abandoned, he told senators that the calm of most protesters around the country contrasted with the "extreme violence" seen in Paris.

"Unlike others, I'm not seeking to apportion blame for this anger," he said. As mayor of the northern port of Le Havre he said he had felt local anger rise every year, after every election. "It's been muted for a long time, because it's been silenced for a long time, by shame, sometimes by pride."

What is the government worried about?

The protest on Saturday 1 December descended into the worst rioting seen in decades, with hundreds of injuries and arrests.

The government says extremists hijacked the protests and incited violence.

French health minister Agnès Buzyn, speaking to RTL Radio on Thursday morning, said: "There is a concern about this violence, and some who do not want to find a solution."

The government is considering mobilising the military to protect important national monuments, French broadcaster BFMTV reported, after the world-famous Arc de Triomphe was damaged last week.

Police advised stores and restaurants on the Champs-Élysées to shut for the day.

A series of football matches have also been postponed. They include those between Paris and Montpellier, Monaco and Nice, Toulouse and Lyon, and Saint-Etienne and Marseille.
How are the protests spreading?

The yellow vests protests have moved beyond the initial anger over fuel taxes. Last week, the movement - despite a lack of central leadership - issued more than 40 demands to government.

Among them were a minimum pension, widespread changes to the tax system, and a reduction in the retirement age.

The government has already acknowledged some of the concerns, suggesting it may review the "wealth tax" it abolished after taking power.

An analysis of its original budget plans for 2018-2019 showed it benefitted the very wealthy rather than the very poor.

Other groups, bolstered by the success of the national movement, have also begun separate actions.

One police union, Vigi, called for a strike of its administrative staff working in the interior ministry for Saturday - saying that without the support of such staff, riot police would be immobilised.

Two road transport unions, the CGT and FO, have called for a strike among its 700,000 members on Sunday, Le Monde reported. Drivers have been affected by changes to overtime payments, the unions say, which affect the purchasing power of its members.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46466268

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 6th, 2018, 9:16 pm

hydroep wrote:French Revolution v2.0....:shock:

France protests: Government fears 'major violence' in coming days


"Unlike others, I'm not seeking to apportion blame for this anger," he said. As mayor of the northern port of Le Havre he said he had felt local anger rise every year, after every election. "It's been muted for a long time, because it's been silenced for a long time, by shame, sometimes by pride."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46466268
This hit home. I think this is why trinis won't riot as well. Rioters have to admit to having little but nobody wants to be deemed a sufferer and looked down upon. Thats why all of our protest that go beyond placarding takes place in poorer communities. What do you think?

I think it might just be a matter of time. Rowley and Imbert said things could be worse and it seems like that's what they are aiming for.

User avatar
88sins
punchin NOS
Posts: 4477
Joined: July 22nd, 2007, 3:03 pm
Location: Corner of Everywhere Avenue & Nowhere Drive

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby 88sins » December 6th, 2018, 10:50 pm

u wanna see a true national riot, where everybody stands up together to show local politicians we fed up?
let people realize they and their children starving, and growley and impsbutt et al getting fat off everybody else backs. when that was just brace yuhself.

but for now, no trini gonna do or even say squa, only cuz they too cowardly, and until EVERYBODY hadda eat grass and dirt to fight off hunger pains, nobody willing to be the odd one out and voice dissent for fear of being shouted down as a sufferer or unpatriotic or selfish.

User avatar
hydroep
punchin NOS
Posts: 3151
Joined: February 4th, 2007, 9:16 pm

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby hydroep » December 6th, 2018, 11:06 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
hydroep wrote:French Revolution v2.0....:shock:

France protests: Government fears 'major violence' in coming days


"Unlike others, I'm not seeking to apportion blame for this anger," he said. As mayor of the northern port of Le Havre he said he had felt local anger rise every year, after every election. "It's been muted for a long time, because it's been silenced for a long time, by shame, sometimes by pride."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46466268
This hit home. I think this is why trinis won't riot as well. Rioters have to admit to having little but nobody wants to be deemed a sufferer and looked down upon. Thats why all of our protest that go beyond placarding takes place in poorer communities. What do you think?

I think it might just be a matter of time. Rowley and Imbert said things could be worse and it seems like that's what they are aiming for.


Yes, the Prime Minister's comment could be economic in context as you suggest but it I suspect it could also be referring to a fear of taking on the system and failing.

I've been examining the anatomy of the French situation and apparently that "yellow jacket" movement is really a grassroots movement comprising members from both the right and left. It's only after they gained momentum that the middle class became emboldened and joined in, probably because they sense victory.

I'm sure T&T's middle class would mount a similar challenge if they knew they had a good chance of winning, they're just not sure that they'll get the support.

I mean, it's kind of difficult to envision both PNM and UNC grassroots joining forces to take down the establishment unless things get extremely bad. I guess that's why the politicians work so hard to keep the masses polarized: divide, conquer and maintain the status quo.

T&T's revolution — if it does come —may have to take a different form, just not sure what that is yet.

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 7th, 2018, 1:04 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

Startee...guess which OECD country's citizens pay the most tax as a percent of GDP.

Take one guess...

Image

https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statis ... 22770x.htm
Yes I see. You have expertly stated your facts in an irrefutable manner. Now I'm just waiting for the punchline. What exactly are you alluding to?


The yellow vest revolt iz driven by many issues. But it was triggered by the imposition of carbon taxes to pay for global warming.

That iz one reason global warming messaging has an apocalyptic tone. The Big Climate lobby groups know a carbon tax will increase the cost of living for average citizens. So they use targeted scaremongering and fearful propaganda to achieve their ends. They claim that if voters & taxpayers dont give them what they want humanity and the Earth will be destroyed in a Thermageddon.

That iz the primary tactic of the global warming lobby. Fear and intimidation. But its not working in France.

Isnt it ironic that the 2015 Paris Climate agreement iz being threatened by the 2018 Paris Discord?

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 7th, 2018, 11:38 am

Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

Startee...guess which OECD country's citizens pay the most tax as a percent of GDP.

Take one guess...

Image

https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statis ... 22770x.htm
Yes I see. You have expertly stated your facts in an irrefutable manner. Now I'm just waiting for the punchline. What exactly are you alluding to?


The yellow vest revolt iz driven by many issues. But it was triggered by the imposition of carbon taxes to pay for global warming.

That iz one reason global warming messaging has an apocalyptic tone. The Big Climate lobby groups know a carbon tax will increase the cost of living for average citizens. So they use targeted scaremongering and fearful propaganda to achieve their ends. They claim that if voters & taxpayers dont give them what they want humanity and the Earth will be destroyed in a Thermageddon.

That iz the primary tactic of the global warming lobby. Fear and intimidation. But its not working in France.

Isnt it ironic that the 2015 Paris Climate agreement iz being threatened by the 2018 Paris Discord?

But why would "The Big Climate" lobby want to do that? Are you saying that global warming is not an issue and is all just a huge money grab?

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 7th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

Startee...guess which OECD country's citizens pay the most tax as a percent of GDP.

Take one guess...

Image

https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statis ... 22770x.htm
Yes I see. You have expertly stated your facts in an irrefutable manner. Now I'm just waiting for the punchline. What exactly are you alluding to?


The yellow vest revolt iz driven by many issues. But it was triggered by the imposition of carbon taxes to pay for global warming.

That iz one reason global warming messaging has an apocalyptic tone. The Big Climate lobby groups know a carbon tax will increase the cost of living for average citizens. So they use targeted scaremongering and fearful propaganda to achieve their ends. They claim that if voters & taxpayers dont give them what they want humanity and the Earth will be destroyed in a Thermageddon.

That iz the primary tactic of the global warming lobby. Fear and intimidation. But its not working in France.

Isnt it ironic that the 2015 Paris Climate agreement iz being threatened by the 2018 Paris Discord?

But why would "The Big Climate" lobby want to do that? Are you saying that global warming is not an issue and is all just a huge money grab?


Startee...Climate iz an extremely complex topic.

For example....weather iz one subset of climate...and weather forecasters are yet unable to accurately predict the frequency of hurricanes in any hurricane season. Note that hurricanes themselves may be considered a subset of weather.

Based on that anecdote how can the Big Climate lobby justify their apocalyptic predictions of the effects of increasing temperatures 80 years or so in the future?

Recall that Global climate iz the result of the interactions of many complex systems: flora, fauna, sunspots, atmospheric and oceanic currents, planetary orbits, cloud formations, pollution etc.

Even in a localized micro climate the average temperature iz difficulty to forecast...not to mention the complexity of predicting average global temperature.

So here’s a question for ur consideration : what iz the ideal average global temperature of the Earth?

User avatar
hydroep
punchin NOS
Posts: 3151
Joined: February 4th, 2007, 9:16 pm

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby hydroep » December 8th, 2018, 9:57 am

Macron is "President of the rich"...

Yellow vest movement: Paris police fire tear gas at protesters

Police in Paris have fired tear gas on protesters as a fourth weekend of anti-government protests turned violent.

Up to 5,000 people have gathered in the city centre, and at least 272 are in custody, but numbers are down on previous weekends.

Some 8,000 police and 12 armoured vehicles have been deployed in Paris, and nearly 90,000 countrywide.

The "yellow vest" movement opposed fuel tax rises but ministers say it's been hijacked by "ultra-violent" protesters.

Last week, hundreds of people were arrested and scores injured in violence in Paris - some of the worst street clashes in the French capital for decades.

What is happening this weekend?

Laurent Nuñez, a junior interior minister, said 31,000 people were taking part in Saturday's demonstrations, of which 8,000 were in or around Paris. Up to 5,000 are on the Champs-Elysées.

The ministry said similar protests last Saturday drew 136,000 people countrywide.

There have been a few confrontations, with police firing tear gas at protesters.

Bins have been set on fire on the Champs-Elysées and water cannon deployed on a street east of the city centre.

TV pictures have shown what appear to be far-right groups setting up barricades. Armoured vehicles are being sent to deal with them, and French media say this is the first time they have been deployed in metropolitan Paris.

At the top end of the Champs-Elysées, near the Arc de Triomphe, there are sporadic upsurges of tension, when riot police move out from their positions to retake ground and push back the more aggressive of the protesters.

There are occasional projectiles being thrown at the police, and some tear gas - but so far the disorder is contained, and nothing like on the scale of last Saturday.

The police are using different tactics - they're much more mobile and are using snatch squads to seize identified troublemakers.

According to the authorities, there have already been nearly 500 arrests. Many of those will have been of people journeying to, rather than at, the scene of the protests - and found to be carrying projectiles.

As the day moves on, the government must be hoping that this comparatively restrained level of trouble remains the norm.

Police have stopped more than 500 people in Paris, of whom at least 272 are in custody.

Prime Minister Edouard Philippe said the numbers of arrests were greater than during the whole of the previous weekend.

"We will ensure that the rest of Saturday unfolds in the best possible conditions," he said.

Meanwhile on the outskirts of Paris, protesters blocked Porte Maillot, one of the main routes into the city from the outer ring road. Yellow vests briefly stopped traffic on the ring road itself, the Boulevard Périphérique, before being cleared by police.

Correspondents say more flashpoints are possible on the edge of the city, where it is harder for police to filter protesters.

Who supports the 'gilets jaunes'

Demonstrations are being held in several other cities including Lyon, Marseille and Grenoble, where a local leader of the yellow vests is reported to have been arrested.

They have even spread to Belgium. About 70 people were arrested in the capital Brussels but there was no violence.

Protests against climate change are also being held in some French cities, including Paris.

The number of security officers deployed across the country has increased to 89,000, up from 65,000 last weekend.

The security forces are seeking to prevent a repeat of last weekend in the capital, where the Arc de Triomphe was vandalised, police were attacked and cars overturned and burned.

On social media, some activists have called for attacks on police and the Elysée palace in an "Act IV" drama.

One MP, Benoît Potterie, received a bullet in the post, accompanied by the words: "Next time it will be between your eyes."

Six matches in the top tier of France's football league have been postponed. The Louvre, Musée d'Orsay and other sites are closed in Paris.

Where are we with the yellow vest movement?

The "gilets jaunes" protesters are so-called because they have taken to the streets wearing the high-visibility yellow clothing that is required to be carried in every vehicle by French law.

The BBC's Lucy Williamson in Paris says that over the past few weeks, the social media movement has morphed from a protest over fuel prices to a leaderless spectrum of interest groups and differing demands.

Its core aim, to highlight the economic frustration and political distrust of poorer working families, still has widespread support, our correspondent says.
Media captionGilets Jaunes: Are nationalists infiltrating the 'yellow vests'?

An opinion poll on Friday showed a dip in support, but it still stood at 66%.

President Emmanuel Macron's ratings have fallen amid the crisis, and he is planning a national address next week, his office has said. Some have criticised him for keeping too low a profile.
What has the government conceded?

The government has said it is scrapping the unpopular fuel tax increases in its budget and has frozen electricity and gas prices for 2019.

The problem is that protests have erupted over other issues.

Granting concessions in some areas may not placate all the protesters, some of whom are calling for higher wages, lower taxes, better pensions, easier university requirements and even the resignation of the president.

Some of his critics call him "the president of the rich".


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46492070

User avatar
sMASH
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10792
Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:30 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby sMASH » December 8th, 2018, 10:26 am

They are still protesting. Even though the tax increase on paused

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 8th, 2018, 10:53 am

The yellow vest rioters claim to have no leaders. Thiz iza dangerous situation. Leadership can be co-opted by other groups just as the Jacobins did in the French Revolution.

Meanwhile Paris continues in chaos as other seething nationalist factions in the EU observe from the sidelines.

Thiz iza hot ghetto mess.


User avatar
sMASH
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10792
Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:30 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby sMASH » December 8th, 2018, 1:17 pm

The fuel tax was the straw on 4he camel's back.. There were other things.

User avatar
Slartibartfast
punchin NOS
Posts: 3811
Joined: May 15th, 2012, 4:24 pm
Location: Magrathea

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Slartibartfast » December 8th, 2018, 1:32 pm

Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Miktay wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:I was really commenting on the lack of substance in this quote. I thought you would add more to it.

Miktay wrote:Liberals want free education, free healthcare & renewable energy. But they throw a hissy fit when they find out how much ‘freeness’ costs.


But I guess that is off topic now given you last reply, which is also a lot more interesting. So we could just drop it.

Now I'm just not sure what point you are trying to make. You just stated facts. I assume you are trying to show some comparison or contrast to how things are here. If not... those are some interesting facts either way.

Startee...guess which OECD country's citizens pay the most tax as a percent of GDP.

Take one guess...

Image

https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statis ... 22770x.htm
Yes I see. You have expertly stated your facts in an irrefutable manner. Now I'm just waiting for the punchline. What exactly are you alluding to?


The yellow vest revolt iz driven by many issues. But it was triggered by the imposition of carbon taxes to pay for global warming.

That iz one reason global warming messaging has an apocalyptic tone. The Big Climate lobby groups know a carbon tax will increase the cost of living for average citizens. So they use targeted scaremongering and fearful propaganda to achieve their ends. They claim that if voters & taxpayers dont give them what they want humanity and the Earth will be destroyed in a Thermageddon.

That iz the primary tactic of the global warming lobby. Fear and intimidation. But its not working in France.

Isnt it ironic that the 2015 Paris Climate agreement iz being threatened by the 2018 Paris Discord?

But why would "The Big Climate" lobby want to do that? Are you saying that global warming is not an issue and is all just a huge money grab?


Startee...Climate iz an extremely complex topic.

For example....weather iz one subset of climate...and weather forecasters are yet unable to accurately predict the frequency of hurricanes in any hurricane season. Note that hurricanes themselves may be considered a subset of weather.

Based on that anecdote how can the Big Climate lobby justify their apocalyptic predictions of the effects of increasing temperatures 80 years or so in the future?

Recall that Global climate iz the result of the interactions of many complex systems: flora, fauna, sunspots, atmospheric and oceanic currents, planetary orbits, cloud formations, pollution etc.

Even in a localized micro climate the average temperature iz difficulty to forecast...not to mention the complexity of predicting average global temperature.

So here’s a question for ur consideration : what iz the ideal average global temperature of the Earth?

So what exactly is your opinion? Do you believe that Global warming as a hoax? Do you believe that there is no increase in global temperature? Or that there is an increase in global temperature but it is a natural occurence that we have no control over? Or is it a natural occurance that we do have some control over? Or are do you think we have negligible effects either way?

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you are trying to say. The way your statements and questions are phrased shows that you have some information but you have incorrectly interpreted the data.

That comment of hurricanes for example. Forcasting the frequency of hurricanes would require a lot more detailed and different data (Advanced modelling most likey using some finite method with boundary conditions that are not able to be adequately defined) vs. the data required to predict that there is a strong liklihood of increased hurricane frequency and magnitude given certain criteria (statiatical analysis of historical data).

I could go on but it will be a pointless back and forth if I have no idea what your core beliefs are.

For instance, I believe the following about global warming
1. It exists
2. It is a problem
3. It is (at least to a large extend) mankinds fault
4. It is a problem that mankind has the abiloty to fix

What are your views on those 4 points. Maybe if we see what we agree/disagree on then we can start from there.

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 8th, 2018, 2:06 pm

sMASH wrote:The fuel tax was the straw on 4he camel's back.. There were other things.


Here’s a before and after view of Paris prior to the riots. The after iz not the traditional stereotype of the City of Lights. It starts at 1:15.

Last edited by Miktay on December 8th, 2018, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Miktay
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1808
Joined: July 30th, 2013, 1:13 am

Re: They have rioted...France fuel protest. UPDATE: Gov't removed tax.

Postby Miktay » December 8th, 2018, 2:07 pm

For instance, I believe the following about global warming
1. It exists
2. It is a problem
3. It is (at least to a large extend) mankinds fault
4. It is a problem that mankind has the abiloty to fix

What are your views on those 4 points. Maybe if we see what we agree/disagree on then we can start from there.


To summarize: I believe that none can state with any degree of certainty that manmade global warming iza problem.

We can look at many facets of the issue but let’s start with the science. Here iz some support for my reasoning.

Spend 30 minutes with a 1973 Nobel physicist on the scientific methodologies.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_Giaever

Let me know what you think.


Advertisement

Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], foreignused, Kronik, VexXx Dogg and 73 guests