The Religion Discussion

[bluefete]

I agree that it is difficult to believe in a supernatural being without solid, empirical evidence or a personal intervention.

DFC - Your arguments have a lot of merit. My question is -

Do you depend on yourself to choose your death as you depend on yourself to live?

Are you in control of the moment of your death, logically and empirically?

[DFC]

. It is not only Christians who have been affected by the dominance of Judeo Christianity but also Muslims, Hindus, non-Christians.. even atheists.

soo umm...how?

[bluefete]

Even Atheists believe in something.

[Humes]

I agree that it is difficult to believe in a supernatural being without solid, empirical evidence or a personal intervention.

DFC - Your arguments have a lot of merit. My question is -

Do you depend on yourself to choose your death as you depend on yourself to live?

Are you in control of the moment of your death, logically and empirically?

bluefete, your entire argument seems be based on the notion that some sentient entity has to be in control of forces like life and death.

But there's no reason to believe that. Life and death is just the presence and absence of energy in a body. Energy finds many reasons to move around that don't depend on some predetermined celestial plan.

And where does this, "Well if God doesn't exist, we must be gods" concept originate? That is totally non sequitur...it doesn't follow any sort of reasoning. You haven't established why any kind of god needs to exist in the first place. You're just assuming that.

At the very most, your questions lead to, "I don't know who or what controls life and death." That's a far cry from accepting the existence of God, especially the existence of God as outlined in any religious text.

[DFC]

I agree that it is difficult to believe in a supernatural being without solid, empirical evidence or a personal intervention.

DFC - Your arguments have a lot of merit. My question is -

Do you depend on yourself to choose your death as you depend on yourself to live?

Are you in control of the moment of your death, logically and empirically?

Death is inevitable....it is a must for the world to continue.
i have some control on how long i live....if i take goodcare of my health and excersize..then yes..i will live long.

if i smoke and drink..i am shortening my life..so we do have some measure of control..


we are not in contol of our birth or death (YET)
Its natural occurrence.

But i see where u are going with this....if we are not in control of birth or death..then who is?
is it logical to blame it on god and dismiss it right there?
its convenient to make god the scapegoat.
but what other options are there?

one day science will find a way for us to live and die as we want.


everything that is mysterious we blame it on god....
if a good man dies young..."god snatched him away"
of if a healthy baby is born amidst tremendous problems "oh..it was god"

if i was god..i would be vex that every shiet happens ...i get blamed for it.

[Humes]

Even Atheists believe in something.

I don't think that's what he meant.

I think he means that atheists often come to their state of disbelief because they're not satisfied with or convinced by the Judeo-Christian concepts of God and spirituality. Their decision to be atheists, therefore, is directly influenced by the dominant religion around them.

It's absolutely wrong to imply that atheists believe in some form of God. That's projecting your beliefs on someone else, and it's not objective debate in the least.

[Humes]

the_DFC, death is not necessary for the world to continue. I don't think people have any idea how inconsequential humanity is to the status of this planet. Humanity and all other living beings. The planet sustains life...not the other way around.

[Razkal]

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... d+delusion

^The god delusion, by Richard Dawkins...

that posted..my best encounter would have to be the time i helped MG stash his body at 3am

[ZeroOne]

Wayys 4 pages over God?? Didnt know tuners so holy.

[Mitsubishi Maniac]

To Those Who Believe in God; No Explanation is Necessary. And To Those Who Do Not Believe in God; No Explanation is Possible.
- Author Unknown


MitsuM: Very well written. Worth much more than $0.20.

I wonder if MG, DFC et al are trying to take the Mickey out of this thread?

[MG Man]

MG Man, your idea on God can be found in most sociology books, so who is to say that you are not fooled into thinking that way? Just looking at it from another perspective, not playing ethug.

u serious jed?
I was brought up in a very religious caring environment......was taught to respect all religions yadda yadda............. I don't need textbooks to demonstrate the nonsensical concept of god.....
as I said before, some people need to believe in something higher than themselves to give their life meaning *shrugs*
As for the devil............if u dumb enough to believe in god, something has to be there to scare u into not questioning it..........

[hydroep]

Atheists and agnostics have their arguments founded in the scientific method. Using this method, it’s currently impossible prove the existence of a higher power to their satisfaction. By the same token however, they must acknowledge the limitation of modern science and concede that they may not yet be able to detect such a presence. Logic suggests therefore that no atheist can make a statement that “Godâ€

[Peanut Punch]

I believe in Karma'' ... live a good life, make the best decisions possible, think positive, work hard, be honest with yourself' & u'll see your way'

[TrinbagoMan]

I believe in Karma'' ... live a good life, make the best decisions possible, think positive, work hard, be honest with yourself' & u'll see your way'

I think your general intent is good, but that is utter bull. That is the general good intentioned approach to life which many people have, which simply allows them to live in a stage of conditioning unawareness, while unconsciously contributing to many social ills.

[Humes]

But just because the believer’s method cannot currently withstand the scrutiny of the scientific method does not make it any less real.

An unexplained feeling or experience isn't necessarily a supernatural feeling or experience. I'm sure some people really believe they experienced something incredible when they survived a car crash or made a "prophecy"...that doesn't mean that, upon closer investigation, something incredible actually happened.

A great local example is sleep apnea being interpreted as jumbie sitting on people's chests.

[hydroep]

^^You're falling into your own trap by assuming that only science can explain certain phenomenon. Can you say for certain that it's not being caused by a supernatural being?

[MG Man]

this is too funny
my skepticism has nothing to do with science etc.........it's just a stupid concept

[Humes]

[quote="hydroep"]My own view is that many of the “modernâ€

[MG Man]

why do god wants us to beg him all the time?
and sing his praises and worship him?
to satisfy his ego?
is he that full of himself?
an ego-tyrant is what he is!

it's cuz we all jus the equivalent of a primary school kid growing a red bean in a cup with wet tissue paper
'god' is some higher life form's kid playing with his project....or we cud all be just random germs in their drain outside...........

waits for the emo crew to reply

[Humes]

Can you say for certain that it's not being caused by a supernatural being?

A) We have evidence that sleep apnea causes that feeling.

B) We have no evidence that the feeling isn't caused by a supernatural being.

You want to ignore the presence of evidence in A to embrace the absence of evidence in B. You're dismissing certainty for uncertainty. That doesn't make sense.

As an aside, where did I say only science can explain certain phenomena? Please don't put words in my mouth. If the phenomena can't be explained, it's unexplained. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know."

[Damien]

thank you god

[larafan]

i think the adam and eve thread should be bumped...

[hydroep]

Actually Humes, that wasn't an off the cuff remark. That's based on my own encounters with atheists over the years. I think it's justified.

BTW, when you talk about not making assumptions about the fundamental parts of anyone just be aware that you're implicitly doing the same thing here:

It's something I think believers take comfort in.

[Humes]

Acknowledged.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I have a question that's been making me think.

When God made Adam and Eve and everything on this great Earth, why did he make it a planet?

[hydroep]

LOL...

Can you say for certain that it's not being caused by a supernatural being?

A) We have evidence that sleep apnea causes that feeling.

B) We have no evidence that the feeling isn't caused by a supernatural being.

Via the scientific method yes. But believers don't use the scientific method. I thought that was clear from my post.

You want to ignore the presence of evidence in A to embrace the absence of evidence in B. You're dismissing certainty for uncertainty. That doesn't make sense.

Not at all. I'm not denying anything. All I'm asking you is whether or not you can you say for certain, that it's not being caused by a supernatural being? And the answer is no.

As an aside, where did I say only science can explain certain phenomena? Please don't put words in my mouth. If the phenomena can't be explained, it's unexplained.

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You've done that yourself. What are you saying here?

A great local example is sleep apnea being interpreted as jumbie sitting on people's chests.

Aren't you saying that though the scientific method it has been determined that the problem is sleep apnea and not a jumbie sitting on people's chests? That's the same thing as saying that only science can explain this particular phenomena and if a believer says it's a jumbie then they are clearly wrong.

There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know."

That's true and I shall when appropriate...

[3stagevtec]

God FTL!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,535861,00.html

[bluefete]

Even Atheists believe in something.

I don't think that's what he meant.

It's absolutely wrong to imply that atheists believe in some form of God. That's projecting your beliefs on someone else, and it's not objective debate in the least.

Humes: I did not mean that Atheists believe in God. I meant that they believe in the absence or non-existence of God. Again, your arguments are quite rational.

Razka wrote: ^The god delusion, by Richard Dawkins...

Richard Dawkins was the man who said that life most likely started in mud ...

This is a man who is as atheistic as they come but how is it after all that logic that the best he can do is parrot Genesis 2:7 - "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground ..." and Genesis 3:19 - "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return."

How can an animate object evolve from an inanimate object?

[nismotrinidappa]

everyone is entitled to their opinion..... but god exists and giving you all non believers time to accept or stay in denial....

sometimes its only when something incredible and life changing happens that you believe.....

[bluefete]

Word.