Where does this culture of entitlement come from?

[d spike]

As asked in the post's topic, this culture of entitlement, where did it come from? I have my own ideas, but they have always been labeled as "racist"... because of their source rather than their content, I presume.

Young people now seem to have this feeling that someone will come from somewhere and give them what they need/want... and this is due to them - not just a fantasy.

Someone should give them a job, based on their hopes, not their experience or qualifications. When you attempt to discuss the need for groundwork, starting from the basics and working up, you are sneered at. Don't try to mention all those you knew who started off by sweeping the floor and ended up a Director, you're wasting your time.

Also, I have met people who beg... offer them a job on an estate at estate pay (I run an estate, not a charitable institution)... only to be told, "nah man, dat eh what ah was looking for... you want ah desk wuk???

Whenever a group wants to raise funds, the first thing they seem to do is ask for donations. No cake sale, no jumble sale, not even a 'tea-party and fashion show' joke, no nuttin... jus' put ah enamel mug in front yuh, an' shake it.

Who tell dem somebody owe dem something?

[foss]

i eh like sweeping, dust does blow in meh face.. ah computer literate

[.:PROZAC:..]

my biggest problem is with the have not and not enoughs thinkign they deserve the wealth of those that have,
They wuk for it.. the 21% of the wealthiest people in the US pay 38% of tha taxes... they paying more than you- wuk for yuh own!!

[Halfbreed07]

started off packing goods in a grocery....
i always knew the value of hard work growing up, now that life is good, i know that hard work got me here

[gencon]

yes indeed, and what particular ethnic group in trinidad do you think has embraced this culture of entitlement attitude the most, i would tell you, but I run the risk of being labeled a racist.

[pugboy]

that culture didn't happen overnight
its passed on from generation to generation

can you picture how things will be when the grandchildren of the current cepep/urp beneficiaries grow up

[eliteauto]

DEWD..LIDP..URP, the "make work" programmes that were intended to sate Government sycophants in lesser developed areas in order to secure votes

Government sector jobs.where the culture of dis-service, laziness, laissez-faire vikey-vie carte-blanche do wha I want way is the norm

when you feed from the trough systematically for generations don't you become accustomed?

[d spike]

DEWD..LIDP..URP, the "make work" programmes that were intended to sate Government sycophants in lesser developed areas in order to secure votes

DEWD was created to break the back of the plantocracy... it succeeded...[/b]

[X2]

We are not too far out of slavery. This culture of being provided for can easily pass down from our ancestors... great great grandparents to great grandparents... to parents, kids.

Combine that with low level education and the culture being perpetuated even by goverment, schools, leaders, etc.... you get what our current state and work ethic has become.

Only a small few will rise above the past and press successfully into the future... the rest will be worker bees cursed to talk shift about those who want to advance themselves and society.

Just a point of view....

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

one popular one comes to mind "why the (expletive) gov't doh build we a race track?".

As if it is the duty of the gov't to provide you with recreation.
And to make it worst they then go on to break the law as a ransom.
"eh heh!? they doh want to build we no track?!? Watch we go race on the road!"

As asked in the post's topic, this culture of entitlement, where did it come from? I have my own ideas, but they have always been labeled as "racist"

the state of being dotish is not confined to any one race.

[X2]

one popular one comes to mind "why the (expletive) gov't doh build we a race track?".

As if it is the duty of the gov't to provide you with recreation.

While I both agree and disagree with what you're saying... the gov't is the most logical entity to go to for assistance... coupled with the fact they control sport... it makes sense to ask, but to expect is silly.


TnT is a former colony. Someone will provide attitude has not gone away... We have barely been free from colonial strangehold... our grandparents time ! Dey owes it to we !!

And to make it worst they then go on to break the law as a ransom.
"eh heh!? they doh want to build we no track?!? Watch we go race on the road!"

This type of expectation from the 'pc' public, however, is also silly. Every nation needs to mature at it's own pace. Trinidad is a growing nation, we are, collectively as a people still maturing and definitely not 'first world' as we all like to think we are. Any growing country has the issue of the populous doing this... even the US has experienced it decades ago.

[Notorious Scullman]

X2,Duane 3NE 2NR, thanks for restoring my hope that common sense is still alive

[d spike]

We are not too far out of slavery. This culture of being provided for can easily pass down from our ancestors... great great grandparents to great grandparents... to parents, kids.

Strangely enough, this isn't so. Slavery and bondage actually had the direct opposite effect on the oppressed. The enslaved longed for betterment and equality. Thus they set high standards and pushed those who could to achieve. Thanks to the entrenched class system, the only way for a black man to rise was via education. So the aim for a family was to ensure at least one child had a schooling. This value system was what created the great men in our history. Trinidad was known (then, alas) for it's well-spoken 'man-in-the-street', lawers and orators (I'm NOT talking about Buzz Butler).
All this applies to the indentured as well. Remember, they came looking for something better, and struggled to achieve it.
All this is due to a system of values, standards and morals, which has since decayed.

Combine that with low level education and the culture being perpetuated even by goverment, schools, leaders, etc.... you get what our current state and work ethic has become.

This is the new Trinidad. We always had slackers and ne'er-do-wells, but they KNEW they weren't achieving the common goals society assumed of all - and they knew everyone else knew... Thus they stayed on the perimeter of society, well aware of the distaste (the letdown!) they caused - beyond the diameter, hence the patois, "diametre", or "jamette".
Now, a working man in Prizgar lands is considered odd and is viewed with suspicion and a small degree of alarm. The hand-out culture of "we go gi' yuh someting" has evolved into "whey mines?"...

This NEVER came from our colonial forefathers (who would turn in their graves to see and hear some of the specimens on parade), but was created by our own countrymen to ensure the mob stayed loyal.

People left their farms and places of employment to flock to the city that was Rome upon hearing that bread was being handed out freely to those in the streets. Thus the mob of Rome grew - why work for bread when you can eat it for free? The politicians encouraged the growth of these mobs by these same hand-outs, and then had to pacify, appease and even entertain them. These same mobs grew unruly when the hand-outs were few or scarce... often the Senate was disturbed by their calls for more.

Are we going along this path?

[crazybalhead]

An interesting way to look at it is this, in 1997, while doing my degree, I had to do some research on squatting. More than 90% of squatters at the time were located in and around the Port of Spain area. The opportunity for handouts and a "hustle" is too great a draw for someone who is truly desperate to build a shack and plant some vegetables in the countryside somewhere.

I guess this, fueled by the handout culture of the Government gave rise to the dependency syndrome.

I also strongly believe that it is up to parents to instill values, mine did, and they stuck with me. That broken home thing is rubbish as well. I am a child of divorced parents, women have an incredible capacity to surmount impossible situations, and for a woman to say they are a single parent is a cop out as far as I can see.

Anecdotally, while in UWI I was working. Found out I had to go offshore on the 19th of December, so I travelled into POS, bought Christmas presents and was getting ready to leave. Stopped in KFC on the promenade for a food before taking a taxi. I overheard a guy my age chatting with a security guard, telling him that he was going to a concert that weekend and his girl already "handled" him a jeans and he was getting a new sneakers. Somebody else had bought him a ticket.

When I was leaving the guy approached me and asked if I could "handle him" a FIVE DOLLARS. I was upset and told him NO!!!!! I could not believe it, but it's a prevalent attitude.

Just a quick 2c there...

[evo-STI-k]

one of the main reasons for this type of attitude is the absence of a stable father figure or at least a proper Role model to follow !

Gang membership also plays a big part in todays society.

[buzz]

yes indeed, and what particular ethnic group in trinidad do you think has embraced this culture of entitlement attitude the most, i would tell you, but I run the risk of being labeled a racist.

should i even ?

interesting thread spike

i believe it was injected from young

the fact that there are ppl that believe society owes them

and i blame the lack of lack of education for one, i'm not exclusively talking about going to school and learning the alphabet i'm talking about understanding the simple concept of everyone has a role to play for a better trinidad...

from the janitors to the engineers and everything in between all mesh together for the proper functioning of society.

the gov't shouldn't just hand you a job

one should be of the attitude that i NEED to contribute

you want to eat but not contribute to the pot?

[Yofoot]

It is really disheartening to see this attitude in trini sociaty.

parent have alot to do with it. there are certain things I remember my parents doing that as a kid, you didn't understand, but you get it when you have your own.

And I think it is every parents goal to improve the lifestyle of the next generation, i had the education my parents didn;t have, and my kids enjoying a lifestyle I could have only dreamed of. Dem does go to de fridge and pull out orchard juice and drink like a it going out ah style, i used to be glad to get one when we go out!

When I was about 12 and want nice sneakers, me father got my brother and I a job sweeping HiLo St Anns Car-park for $40 dollars a week, we used to get dressed for school, go sweep and then go to school it used to take us ten minutes top. When we saved up enough, my father meet us half way.
It was hard yes, but come September i rocking meh Travel Fox strong! and I really appreciated it, that is when man used to get licks for mashing meh shoes, he don't know how hard i wuk for that!

And even simpler thing is my father being home, i mean after work, he came home and stayed at home, so I have a tendency to do the same, once my family is home, I think they deserve me being there.

I worry that my kids will have this entitlement attitude because they get everything they want, so my wife and I try to tie it to certain goals, like doing good in school and so on.
And it is already drilled in their heads that they doing some form of tertiry education, my daughter is 9 but has plan of going UWI already.

On ah next note...
i used to think it was bad in Trinidad with big men begging, but it is much worse in Jamaica. I have come to expect everyone to ask for money here.
you leaving your bad at the bag counter, the attendant asks for a $20, de security open de door for you, he ask for a $20, go to pick up my kids from school, about five kids ask for a $20. is de worse.

[X2]

Interesting view there dspike. I do believe strongly that the basic idea behind both your points and the colonial ties are one in the same. Even the people that came to the new world were taking essentially hand-outs... they wanted land, title, wealth... and all of this was available from thier goverments/rulers. Think about this... it boils down to the same ethic.

We as Trinidadians as are many other island nations, bound to be affected by the colonial culture....the freeness and attraction to a give away is almost human nature, but from your inference of it... how many generations were truly affected in TnT ? 2 generations maybe ? whereas, our ancestors survived under many more of outside rule.

Trini's are very sharp, quick witted... even down to the smartman on the street and this shows an inherent tendancy toward intelligence in our people, but education and wealth of knowledge is one key to developing a first world society. Trini's strived for education and improvement of life and standards... this is AWESOME that a people collectively would want it, but again, all good things take TIME ! How many generations have been able to achieve it since the desire to further ourselves really took hold and effect ? A family with wholly uneducated parents could likely send ALL of their children to school, university even. But this would only educate one generation, while ignorance can still be passed down. You see this oftentimes where a person has gone to secondary and even tertiary education, holds a degree and yet seems to still be an ignorant a$$whole. This type of mentality, sometimes has to be thinned out and may take a few generations to do so. Boiling down to the whole nuture vs nature that so many like to allude to these days.

By nature I think Trini smart... but some a we does get nutured by real ignorant cyats...

[MG Man]

hmm....................
let's see............
drove to work in meh sis car............
stole meh daddy car.............
meh daddy contributed 50% to pay for de MG.....
Grandma lend meh 2k tuh buy meh first car.....
soooooooo...............clearly is de PNM

[Mr. Red Sleeper]

DEWD..LIDP..URP, the "make work" programmes that were intended to sate Government sycophants in lesser developed areas in order to secure votes

Government sector jobs.where the culture of dis-service, laziness, laissez-faire vikey-vie carte-blanche do wha I want way is the norm

when you feed from the trough systematically for generations don't you become accustomed?

Dr. Eric Williams....Thank You much.!


Btw.....Did DEWD really stand for Dr. Eric Williams' Darlings?

[buzz]

well since allyuh put it dat blunt

Dr. Eric Williams

\thread

[teems1]

We are not too far out of slavery. This culture of being provided for can easily pass down from our ancestors... great great grandparents to great grandparents... to parents, kids.

Combine that with low level education and the culture being perpetuated even by goverment, schools, leaders, etc.... you get what our current state and work ethic has become.

Only a small few will rise above the past and press successfully into the future... the rest will be worker bees cursed to talk shift about those who want to advance themselves and society.

Just a point of view....

48 years of independence many of which we enjoyed very good oil and gas prices.

T+T should have been at a higher standard than the current abysmal state we are in.

[crazybalhead]

We are not too far out of slavery. This culture of being provided for can easily pass down from our ancestors... great great grandparents to great grandparents... to parents, kids.

Combine that with low level education and the culture being perpetuated even by goverment, schools, leaders, etc.... you get what our current state and work ethic has become.

Only a small few will rise above the past and press successfully into the future... the rest will be worker bees cursed to talk shift about those who want to advance themselves and society.

Just a point of view....

48 years of independence many of which we enjoyed very good oil and gas prices.

T+T should have been at a higher standard than the current abysmal state we are in.

WTF???? Abysmal????

STEUUUUUUUUPS.

[Notorious Scullman]

T+T should have been at a higher standard than the current abysmal state we are in.

Abysmal? Some of you really have no clue.

[RASC]

hmm....................
let's see............
drove to work in meh sis car............
stole meh daddy car.............
meh daddy contributed 50% to pay for de MG.....
Grandma lend meh 2k tuh buy meh first car.....
soooooooo...............clearly is de PNM

You have seen the light my brother. You shall be duly rewarded *hooommmmmmm*

[Computerman]

T+T should have been at a higher standard than the current abysmal state we are in.

Abysmal? Some of you really have no clue.

[d spike]

Interesting view there dspike. I do believe strongly that the basic idea behind both your points and the colonial ties are one in the same. Even the people that came to the new world were taking essentially hand-outs... they wanted land, title, wealth... and all of this was available from thier goverments/rulers. Think about this... it boils down to the same ethic.

Like I said

Strangely enough, this isn't so.

Dr. Eric Williams tried very hard to get people to agree with this point in order to locate a foreign scapegoat. He even went as far as blaming the Spanish government for Trinidad's lack of infrastructure - they ruled Trinidad for about 300 years, but never invested in our country... Codswallop.

Yes, I admit, Colonialism and Slavery could easily be blamed for causing this malaise many of our people seem to be suffering from, but such a suggestion can only be made/believed by folks who are totally unaware of our history - a major reason why Eric ensured our history ceased being taught in school. (Check any local secondary school history textbook... nothing about Trinidad's history except vague pre-Columbian assumptions and post-Independence happenings... the only stuff mentioned about what passed in between those times would be about Eric himself, Buzz and a note about Cipriani...

We as Trinidadians as are many other island nations, bound to be affected by the colonial culture....the freeness and attraction to a give away is almost human nature, but from your inference of it... how many generations were truly affected in TnT ? 2 generations maybe ? whereas, our ancestors survived under many more of outside rule.

I'm not sure you know what I'm talking about. The "many more of outside rule" years is what I'm referring to. I think you need to take a look at the history of our country before you make broad statements like this. Focus specifically at the years between the 1880's and 1962...

Cheers

[X2]

Interesting view there dspike. I do believe strongly that the basic idea behind both your points and the colonial ties are one in the same. Even the people that came to the new world were taking essentially hand-outs... they wanted land, title, wealth... and all of this was available from thier goverments/rulers. Think about this... it boils down to the same ethic.

Like I said

Strangely enough, this isn't so.

Dr. Eric Williams tried very hard to get people to agree with this point in order to locate a foreign scapegoat. He even went as far as blaming the Spanish government for Trinidad's lack of infrastructure - they ruled Trinidad for about 300 years, but never invested in our country... Codswallop.

There are a few points in what you are saying that need clarification.

The scapegoat claim, fine... I'll give you that, but you speak of knowing our history, when knowledge of the history of other caribbean nations, both their colonial history as well as basic formation of goverment and how it has affected their economic control is essential in critiquing and analyzing our predicament. Trinidad's history of goverment in the last 200 years has been quite seasoned. You can almost thank the good lord for the British gaining control. Not but 100 years ago, the multiple transitions of power occuring in very short spaces of time, even at the municipal level, helped shape how we percieve goverment.

Yes, I admit, Colonialism and Slavery could easily be blamed for causing this malaise many of our people seem to be suffering from, but such a suggestion can only be made/believed by folks who are totally unaware of our history - a major reason why Eric ensured our history ceased being taught in school. (Check any local secondary school history textbook... nothing about Trinidad's history except vague pre-Columbian assumptions and post-Independence happenings... the only stuff mentioned about what passed in between those times would be about Eric himself, Buzz and a note about Cipriani...

Well, my early education was in TnT so I guess I was also affected by the great cover-up while schooling in the 80's

Concerning Dr. Williams, the man was largely intelligent, very well educated and honestly, yes, could sway the people. His influence is much more recent than colonial times, but he was only around for 30 years and his vision has been bastardized to some degree, but either way, he affected goverment for the most part, which takes time to influence society's level of education and less so, culture. Culture change is quite difficult, particularly when you have 300+ years of it shaping society. You simply cannot ignore hundreds of years of history because of the last 50 years of change. If so, you would be using the PNM as a scapegoat.

We as Trinidadians as are many other island nations, bound to be affected by the colonial culture....the freeness and attraction to a give away is almost human nature, but from your inference of it... how many generations were truly affected in TnT ? 2 generations maybe ? whereas, our ancestors survived under many more of outside rule.

I'm not sure you know what I'm talking about. The "many more of outside rule" years is what I'm referring to. I think you need to take a look at the history of our country before you make broad statements like this. Focus specifically at the years between the 1880's and 1962...
Cheers

The years of 'outside rule' is exactly what my whole point has been based on

I'd dial the clock back to the start of the 1800's rather than 1880.... and go further back yet... the Spanish DID completely fudge this country . They did not build anything near proper infrastructure....they built a port and roads to the port and the entire purpose of that was to drain resources out of the country as quickly as possible... just as they have done with just about every other Spanish colony. At least the british and french influence added something of significance to our goverment and culture. Look at South America and any other former Spanish colony... they are a wreck !

Maybe I don't know what you are trying to say ? But in trying to figure the disposition and culture of a local people, focusing on regional and local history would be key... factoring in human nature... ie european history,etc would of course support any discussion... It's a point of view... the purpose of the thread right ? I'd like to know the hidden history of our country you are on about though... it sounds interesting.

[pugboy]

so who more responsible for the "freenesss attitude" ?
the historical colonialism or the 30 years of uncle eric brainwash ?

[ek4ever]

This culture come from the PNM.

Next question