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San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Bareback » January 4th, 2012, 2:40 pm

Didn't one of these guys propose this highway?
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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby RBphoto » January 4th, 2012, 2:42 pm

So yuh hiring me or what dan?

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby shady23 » January 4th, 2012, 3:04 pm

Highway Re-Route wrote:FOLKS, FOLKS, ITS NOT THE WHOLE HIGHWAY THAT IS BAD: JUST THE MON DESIR TO DEBE SEGMENT.


THE MAIN SAN FERNANDO TO POINT FORTIN HIGHWAY WILL BE BENEFICIAL. BUT THE MON DESIR TO DEBE SECTION OF HIGHWAY MUST BE ABORTED, AND A SYSTEM OF OTHER LINKAGES DEVISED.


THE MON DESIR TO DEBE SECTION WILL CAUSE DISCONNECTIVITY, WIDESCALE PERSISTENT FLOODING, GREAT DISTRESS AND DISLOCATION, AND UNNECESSARY COSTS TO THE TAXPAYER.


MON DESIR TO DEBE SECTION IS A MAKE WORK PROGRAM FOR CONTRACTS. BEFORE: TO BUILD. AFTER: TO CONTROL FLOODING. THIS IS CALLED DISASTER DEVELOPMENT.


THE PEOPLE LIVING IN COMMUNITIES ON THE OROPUCHE BASIN BETWEEN MON DESIR AND DEBE ARE BEING SACRIFICED LIKE LAMBS ON THE ALTAR OF BOGUS CONSULTATION, BOGUS CONNECTIVITY, BOGUS COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS, BOGUS CERTIFICATION


OGOARRRRRRRR DOH SAY DAT NAHHHHHH!!!! I LIVIN RITE DONG DEY OGOARRRRRR AH GO DRONGGGGG!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Greypatch » January 4th, 2012, 3:07 pm

will this affect bara prices ?

following the map provided and comparing it on google earth they have tried their best to use open lands the bulk of which are bush..

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Habit7 » January 4th, 2012, 5:45 pm

I understanding the man perspective but it is all in line with a greater problem in T&T and any jurisdiction, You can't please everybody.

When the last administration saw a way of eliminating some of our problems was to begin a drive to rapidly develop the nation through infrastructure and communication which would redound to crime fighting and healthcare and better utilities etc. people, including members of the present administration cried out no, we don't want tall buildings! give us utopic healthcare and crime without murders, they didn't listen and get vote out.

Now that we again realise that the problems in our country can't be solved by small changes but by the grand ones that were previously bandied about. For example, no amount of changing streets to one-ways and traffic wardens could solve a massive volume of traffic. Or promise to build all the hospitals you want, unless we don't have doctors and nurses being continually wooed to the US and UK we will always be short staffed and endure long waits.

So now that we don't developed country status or the process to get there, how do we expect to improve our services?

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby brams112 » January 4th, 2012, 6:00 pm

all the people that opposing don't know the price of progress,,,the are so stupid it not funny,maybe the need to know,fixing the creek involves raising the road above the present wall at least a few feet,think how long it will take,when the bridge was painting was traffic for miles,so how will they raise the road by magic?the highway is the best option,plenty people will benifit,imagine leaving point and reaching sando in 30 minutes,no water to pass over to rot your car,is just smooth sailing,,,,,pee on them just jealous they can't start this project,,, i say buil the dam thing,,,

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby brams112 » January 4th, 2012, 6:05 pm

some people don't know about google earth grey,,,i watched it a long time now,there is no other way to pass it other than in swamp, from golcanda through woodland and beyond woodland is swamp,,,pass through there and is pain,,,if the naysayers could look at google earth they will understand,,,,,

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby brams112 » January 4th, 2012, 6:22 pm

where in mondesir have 400 acres of prime agricultural land,who are the farmers ur say 200 of them,last i know of there are not even 50 farmers and they planting on land they don't have deed for,,,,,so the problem lies in what i said,,,,no deed no money,,,,,,ur know how much is 400 acres op?

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 4th, 2012, 6:47 pm

brams112 wrote:all the people that opposing don't know the price of progress,,,the are so stupid it not funny,maybe the need to know,fixing the creek involves raising the road above the present wall at least a few feet,think how long it will take,when the bridge was painting was traffic for miles,so how will they raise the road by magic?the highway is the best option,plenty people will benifit,imagine leaving point and reaching sando in 30 minutes,no water to pass over to rot your car,is just smooth sailing,,,,,pee on them just jealous they can't start this project,,, i say buil the dam thing,,,


The creek can be fixed, it dosent take an engineer to access the situation and propose a solution.
yes raising the road is an option, but paving it with the center higher than the sides was also one. The water from the rain will run off to the sides. a channel on each side can take the water to the end where either it drains into the sea or into a catchment where it can be pumped off. Isolate it from the mangrove so water does not come in during high tide.
have you looked at that wall? when tide is low the sea undermines it & the road. There is currently a ledge formed & all the wave energy trapped and dissipated under there. Go read on wave action and erosion to get an idea of what I talking about.
The top of the wall is an old design, build it curved like a semi circle so it deflects the waves upwards & backwards towards the sea. oh heck, replace the whole damn wall with a semi circle face to deflect the energy upwards & back towards the sea.

I am pretty sure that is way cheaper than raising the whole road. & forget how long it takes, hire a few chinee and that whole project done in a month rather than the entire year it took to paint the bridge.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 4th, 2012, 6:49 pm

brams112 wrote:where in mondesir have 400 acres of prime agricultural land,who are the farmers ur say 200 of them,last i know of there are not even 50 farmers and they planting on land they don't have deed for,,,,,so the problem lies in what i said,,,,no deed no money,,,,,,ur know how much is 400 acres op?


there is agricultural land in the bushes before the waterfall they call 'crystal clear' :mrgreen:

nice sunday hike.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby xtech » January 4th, 2012, 7:58 pm

engineers already fixed the creek over 10 years ago by building the huge drain along its length to collect sea water which came out of the swamp at high tides....unless was some major high tide with high waves there was no flood for years until kinda recently

Did you ever see anybody clean that drain

So building the extension through Debe through to Fyzo fixes the Flooding on Creek no alternate route problem

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 4th, 2012, 8:02 pm

xtech wrote:engineers already fixed the creek over 10 years ago by building the huge drain along its length to collect sea water which came out of the swamp at high tides....unless was some major high tide with high waves there was no flood for years until kinda recently

Did you ever see anybody clean that drain


sometime the tide is pretty high & the drain over flows, some parts of the creek are submerged by more than a foot of water. I say isloate the mangrove from the road completely.
You would think that the engineers might have taken increasing sea levels into consideration eh.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby xtech » January 4th, 2012, 8:08 pm

nervewrecker wrote:
xtech wrote:engineers already fixed the creek over 10 years ago by building the huge drain along its length to collect sea water which came out of the swamp at high tides....unless was some major high tide with high waves there was no flood for years until kinda recently

Did you ever see anybody clean that drain


sometime the tide is pretty high & the drain over flows, some parts of the creek are submerged by more than a foot of water. I say isloate the mangrove from the road completely.
You would think that the engineers might have taken increasing sea levels into consideration eh.


Yes it used to flood on very high tides now it floods every other day

Again has anyone ever seen those drains cleaned they are deep so a back-hoe might be used to dig it out an is over 15 years of junk in there

If sea levels has risen I sure it was only a few inches not feet.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 4th, 2012, 8:15 pm

even with a few inches rise overall with the change of tides its gonna be a whole different ball game.

add sunken road to that & you have a recipe for under water road.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 5th, 2012, 9:16 pm

where the op gone?

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Vanessa M » January 8th, 2012, 12:53 am

Imagine I get up dis morning to find surveryors in d road telling me they surveying for highway....wat chupidness i hearing boi.
I born an bred here and now dey say highway comin...nobody ever axe me if dey cud build here?

I from the Fyzabad area and to date no one come to me directly and said - hear is wat mrs mohammed your house going. steups.
i have no clue of where the highway passing or if i will have to move or not or if i getting two cent to rub together after all of this....
anyone else experience this???

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 8th, 2012, 1:16 am

howdy neighbor....where in fyzo you from?

do inbox me.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby cincuanta » January 8th, 2012, 1:28 am

"Nobody ever axe you" yuh say.......hmmmm.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 8th, 2012, 1:52 am

cincuanta wrote:"Nobody ever axe you" yuh say.......hmmmm.



I now come back to quote that lol.

fyzabad people again....wait...nevermind

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 8th, 2012, 1:53 am

cincuanta wrote:"Nobody ever axe you" yuh say.......hmmmm.



I now come back to quote that lol.

fyzabad people again....wait...nevermind

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby cincuanta » January 8th, 2012, 2:45 am

^^^Yuh aint ask she the most relevant question to the highway discussion crew...iz eeet fat??

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby pugboy » January 8th, 2012, 6:25 am

the project ready to start, I hear a brazilian contractor running the show and setup offices
and possibly some "new" local guys subbing
rumors incl a renta guy

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby MonsterPower » January 8th, 2012, 7:29 am

construction started already pug ....

a certain freind of the pp is the sub contractor

and nerve if u seperate the mangrove from the sea salt water will back up into the gordineu river up to woodland and environs

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby wagonrunner » January 8th, 2012, 8:29 am

hmmmm. did not notice the salt water source was upstream.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby nervewrecker » January 8th, 2012, 10:24 am

Time to open a bar & take some of allyuh rum suckers $$$. How close this highway passes to my house I wonder? Vanessa never pm me with the details. cincuanta, me nuh like fyzo gyul, you go get the confirmation of the fatness or lack of it & report back to us.

MP, I said isolate the mangrove from the road not the sea.

Mangrove is a natural buffer zone between the salt & fresh water, salt water source being the sea. Obstruction of the flow of fresh or salt water through / into it will upset the natural balance & yadda yadda yadda.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby DrunkenMaster16 » January 8th, 2012, 11:15 am

wagonrunner wrote:hmmmm. did not notice the salt water source was upstream.


High Tide pushes the salt water up into the brackish swamp water, Low tide it flows back out into the sea.

I have seen the creek with almost 1 ft of water on the road, in my opinion it was because of 1 being high tide with rough water / waves, 2 the drain is clogged with debris (mostly human waste and dead plant / mud). 3 Poor design of road / drainage system.

There is a new initiative in place that will be addressing the human waste / rubbish being carelessly thrown out causing problems and polluting the water ways. CEPEP Marine, expect to see them soon working on the coast / swamp in that area soon. :wink:

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Rx » January 8th, 2012, 6:02 pm

allyuh leave the creek bridge outta this... the last painting / repair took way too long .........

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Highway Re-Route » January 8th, 2012, 6:30 pm

The Case -:

*The Ministry of Works wants to build two (2) highways from Point Fortin. One goes from Point to Mon Desir, along the Mosquito Creek to San Fernando. We are not challenging this highway. This one is a bonus for the people of deep South who suffered for too long.

*The other one is a 6 foot high, 9.1 mile embankment through the Oropuche Basin, passing through thirteen communities from Mon Desir to Debe. This one will create massive dislocation, flooding, and alienate fertile lands.

* It will generate metropolitan sprawl in peaceful, well-knit, empowered communities. We are against this madness. This is highway robbery, make-work for contractors - make work to build it and make work to clean up when the floods hit.


* We want the repair and widening of roads in this area, as well as the use of outlying secondary roads to create connectivity in this area.


* This Mon Desir to Debe is overkill, unnecessary, too costly, corrupt, violent, bogus and frankly, a dumb deal for Trinidad and Tobago.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Rory Phoulorie » January 8th, 2012, 6:41 pm

You do know that NIDCO is currently in the process of designing a new housing development for the displaced households? They are also catering for agricultural parcels for the bonafide farmers who are being displaced.

I really can't understand why all this noise now when there were many PUBLIC CONSULTATIONS on this highway development. These public consultations were well advertised in the media. Why didn't you all come and voice your concerns then? If you had actually come to the public consultations you would have seen that concerns raised at these meetings were taken into account and the alignment of the highway revised through the Oropouche Swamp.

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Re: San Fernando to Point Fortin Highway

Postby Highway Re-Route » January 8th, 2012, 6:41 pm

Most trini’s believe that creating an asphalt and concrete jungle is true development with little or no consideration to the environment. How an I change your mindset? A small minority including myself adore nature..the rest believe that the tall buildings in New York city is absolutely marvelous and what we should aim for here.
After reading all your posts, perhaps I should define what is sustainable development - it is a pattern of growth in which resource use aims to meet (Sociopolitical) human needs while preserving the environment so that these needs can be met not only in the present, but also for generations to come (Wikipedia)
THIS HIGHWAY DOES NOT PROMOTE SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT.

Environmental - Over 400 acres of prime agricultural lands will be destroyed. This affects 200 farmers who depend on their lands to support their families and provide much needed income in these hard times. Imagine destroying soil with a geo-fertilty of 15 feet deep which could support a fifteen hundred year food basket. Agriculture, Food Production and nutrition security is ranked 2nd in the government's five priority items in it's medium term policy framework...
There is very little noise and dust pollution in the areas carded for destruction plus the abundant vegetation works to counter balance any CO2 emissions.
These areas have a rich and diverse historical and cultural background. The site where Trinidad's oldest resident - The Banwari Man - is in close proximity to the proposed highway. Lastly this project will use up 7.6 BILLION Dollars - maybe more than that - financing which has not so far been forthcoming. The 1.5 Billion Dollars which they are using currently was taken from Central Bank's trasury deposits - tax payers income.

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