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Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby gt4tified » May 14th, 2012, 12:39 am

Further to pete’s questions,

What can the non-affiliated groups gain by joining/affiliating themselves with the MGC and how is this supposed to be different from affiliation with TTASA? Or is it some mechanism where non-affiliate groups can enjoy some benefit that is separate and apart from the ‘benefits’ offered by TTASA? If so, what are these assumed benefits?

MGC and TTASA seems like old wine in a new bottle imo, and I can only venture a guess but maybe it is that until the non-affiliated groups get some answers, expecting them to affiliate themselves is the same as expecting a cabernet sauvignon to fall out the clouds instead of rain water.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby X2 » May 14th, 2012, 12:50 am

Well maybe they not expecting it to rain wine...

Image


Link wrote:I state categorically that TTASA has NOT RECEIVED ANY FUNDING FROM MSYA.
Like you, I am also curious about


NO FUNDING WHATSOEVER ? Well that makes it interesting.

Link wrote:WHY ???
If you stand OUTSIDE the National Sport Policy umbrella, how can you ethically seek the same opportunities as those who embrace the collective 'way forward' ??


It appears that operating outside the umbrella is as worthwhile as operating under it.... One of the main points being harped here... where is the benefit with being aligned with the NGB if even they cannot get funding for disbursement ?

Planning is an empty exercise without control. There appears to be no focus, no plan... coupled with lack of control, what are we left with ? Management without control and without funding.... where I come from... that means you're S.O.L.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby RIPEBREDFRUIT » May 14th, 2012, 7:24 am

TTASA is also the FIA ASN for T&T.
FIA is the governing body for motorsport in the world. Just like FIFA is the world governing body for Football. Each country in the world that has FIA affiliation has a representative group for motorsport - this group is referred to as the ASN of that country. TTASA has been the FIA ASN for T&T for decades now ????

Is it NOT possible to report claims to FIA that this local organisation is NOT seeking the best intertest of motor sports in the country and that over 80% of people involved in the relevant sport would like to see a CHANGE in the appointment?

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby link » May 14th, 2012, 7:32 am

pete wrote:Link, what it all comes down to is this.

What can TTRC and all the other non-affiliated groups gain by joining / affiliating themselves with TTASA?

TTASA has a LOT to gain by them joining and from where I am, it seems that ALL the other groups want is some change in structure of TTASA that would ensure equal representation for each branch of the sport.

Until then y'all can keep saying "allyuh have to join us or else" and they will keep putting on events and getting the job done. If TTASA would agree to subtle changes that would get the other groups to join then the whole sport can move forward.

Those other groups that have come together for the love of the sport don't want to see years and years of hard work disappear by people who aren't willing to negotiate a solution that will benefit everyone.

spin that & let those 'other' groups reply....WITHOUT THE LONG STORY....

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby UML » May 14th, 2012, 7:59 am

BANzai Rastafarai wrote:
SR wrote:roflmao

never happen

too many years of personal bitterness


Actually SR,

it can happen. Look at Taroba Stadium...ALOT of pockets/prado/Cayenne got bought with that insane project, only for it to be classed as a "prision" in the end...and that was just a stadium...thnik of all the contracts and corruption that will take place with the construction of the facility....Anil wants it cuz he already has the facilities company set up (not in his name...but it is set up...*it pays to drunken one of his executive assistanst in Riverwood...lol)) so that he has a money post Govt appointment.

Think about it....a half mile strip (1.4 mile track plus another 1/8 to 1/4 run-off track)...we measure it already (2007)...you talkin gabout lighting, civi works, ashplaht laying, Stands creation, actual Facilities buildings (Garages, Admins building, possiblby a 3 story structure with VIP lounges and Food canteens), mini tracks for drifting and karting and the view of a possible circuit track....

You have project management costs, IT support costs, civic works support costs, administrative costs, enviromental compliance costs...

BILLIONS...that construction will eclipse the 700million build for the POint Highway.

So yeah... Give Anil his way, sod turning ceremony will take place and money will start to flow to get "Party Contributors Pockets" fat again. It would be stupud NOT To construct it....as for the administration....Anil can sing that song of "allaince" till the construction is nearly over...IF he is still in power, then he looks like a Porn Star that can bul lfor hours....if his govt gets out of power...evn then..he still has that in his hat to tout....

We fail to see the bigger picture that is waaaaaaaaaaay out of many of our pay grade.


it eh start yet and he criticizing....criticizing it eh build yet.....criticizing before it build.....criticizing if it ever build.


damned it u do.....damned if u dont

:|





X2 wrote:It will be hard to push a $700Mm project thru Ministry of Sport. Especially without a realistic plan for revenue recovery of such a large investment. A drag track alone would be in excess of $60mm with today's RM prices. Even that much wasn't spent on swimming, netball, cycling and boxing combined (as far as I know).

For goverment to pay for anything significant...motorsport either needs to be a deeply entrenched sport with direct, visible revenue generation (foreign investment, tourism, technology investment, etc....) or it will need to be handled as a private business with payouts from the ministry for different levels of assistance, yet be self sustaining.


Just this past Friday, Anil was answering some queries regarding MoS expenditure as of Dec 2011. Somewhere in his philibuster must have mentioned monies going to autosport... *cough*wheeze*clears throat*... ahem... I mean... 'motorsport'. So what has been given this year (by the ministry) for events and prizegiving... for awards, trophies, travel for racing abroad ? Surely sheldon got a lil something to help him parade our flag while breaking records around the world ? Right ? Anil ?

Image

Or not... lol



to be fair to anil he always says when interviewed "with the support of the private sector" eh...he never says the govt doing it by deyself

so if u cant get unity in the organization to start the blasted project....imagine how hard it go be to get the private sector to dish out money.

d way duane does spend he money on sponsorship....i sure he throwing out a million easyyyy :|

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby link » May 14th, 2012, 9:08 am

to be fair to anil he always says when interviewed "with the support of the private sector" eh...he never says the govt doing it by deyself


probably the same 'private sector' who told the current TTASA Management "we see allyuh business plan...allyuh eh have no money & allyuh askin' government fuh money...we go build de track...allyuh cud come in as investors if allyuh want...."
.
to be fair to anil

he did say "I know nothing about that" when asked about above...
.
Last edited by link on May 14th, 2012, 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby Monk BANzai » May 14th, 2012, 10:09 am

UML wrote:
it eh start yet and he criticizing....criticizing it eh build yet.....criticizing before it build.....criticizing if it ever build.


damned it u do.....damned if u dont

:|





not sure if its me or SR you referring to....but i personally dont see what/how a division in Motorsprot has to do with the construction of a govt assisted/financed facility. If its on the mandate set by the govt to get done it will be done!! (Take the Marlene Coudray example).

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby RIPEBREDFRUIT » May 14th, 2012, 11:39 am

JUST BUILD the frigging MOTOR sport facility and then you all can fight over it.
At least people who would like a chance to time , run and tune their cars can then do so under LEGAL procedures.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby FugiTECH » May 14th, 2012, 12:03 pm

RIPEBREDFRUIT wrote:JUST BUILD the frigging MOTOR sport facility and then you all can fight over it.
At least people who would like a chance to time , run and tune their cars can then do so under LEGAL procedures.


Impossible , must Fight over it and Unite in order to build lol

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 14th, 2012, 12:21 pm

gt4tified wrote:Further to pete’s questions,

What can the non-affiliated groups gain by joining/affiliating themselves with the MGC and how is this supposed to be different from affiliation with TTASA? Or is it some mechanism where non-affiliate groups can enjoy some benefit that is separate and apart from the ‘benefits’ offered by TTASA? If so, what are these assumed benefits?

MGC and TTASA seems like old wine in a new bottle imo, and I can only venture a guess but maybe it is that until the non-affiliated groups get some answers, expecting them to affiliate themselves is the same as expecting a cabernet sauvignon to fall out the clouds instead of rain water.
All of this was covered already.

I hope you are not just typing for typing sake.
If you are a member of a local motorsport club/association, the executive can also explain these things to you ask well as their stand on the issue.

What can clubs get by joining?
By having one unified group/MSGC/NSO the Ministry of Sport can wholeheartedly support all forms of motorsport in the form of concessions, subvention and funding. ALL the motorsport clubs can benefit from this, a benefit NONE of the clubs currently get openly, including TTASA or even say Solodex.

How does MGC and TTASA seems like old wine in a new bottle?
Currently the MSGC that TTASA created sits aside and below TTASA, though TTASA also sits on the MSGC they created. TTASA chaired the MSGC only up till a couple weeks ago when the president of TTUNDRA was named Chairman of the MSGC by TTASA.

Currently, in order for your association to be part of the MSGC, your club/association must become affiliates to the NSO/NGB which is TTASA.

TTASA is not the MSGC. The MSGC was created by TTASA and is made up of all the clubs/associations who are affiliated to TTASA.

The clubs/associations who are not affiliated want to join a MSGC that is completely equal to TTASA. Which is why if the MSGC became the NSO/NGB, everyone would join.

As it is TTASA holds the NSO/NGB power while affiliates sit below them on the MSGC. The MSGC cannot liaise with the Ministry of Sport directly, the NSO/NGB must do that, so everything done at MSGC level must in-turn pass through TTASA, including concessions, subvention and funding - that is the problem non-affiliate clubs have with joining the MSGC.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby link » May 14th, 2012, 1:08 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
gt4tified wrote:Further to pete’s questions,

What can the non-affiliated groups gain by joining/affiliating themselves with the MGC and how is this supposed to be different from affiliation with TTASA? Or is it some mechanism where non-affiliate groups can enjoy some benefit that is separate and apart from the ‘benefits’ offered by TTASA? If so, what are these assumed benefits?

MGC and TTASA seems like old wine in a new bottle imo, and I can only venture a guess but maybe it is that until the non-affiliated groups get some answers, expecting them to affiliate themselves is the same as expecting a cabernet sauvignon to fall out the clouds instead of rain water.
All of this was covered already.

I hope you are not just typing for typing sake.
If you are a member of a local motorsport club/association, the executive can also explain these things to you ask well as their stand on the issue.

What can clubs get by joining?
By having one unified group/MSGC/NSO the Ministry of Sport can wholeheartedly support all forms of motorsport in the form of concessions, subvention and funding. ALL the motorsport clubs can benefit from this, a benefit NONE of the clubs currently get openly, including TTASA or even say Solodex.

How does MGC and TTASA seems like old wine in a new bottle?
Currently the MSGC that TTASA created sits aside and below TTASA, though TTASA also sits on the MSGC they created. TTASA chaired the MSGC only up till a couple weeks ago when the president of TTUNDRA was named Chairman of the MSGC by TTASA.

Currently, in order for your association to be part of the MSGC, your club/association must become affiliates to the NSO/NGB which is TTASA.

TTASA is not the MSGC. The MSGC was created by TTASA and is made up of all the clubs/associations who are affiliated to TTASA.

The clubs/associations who are not affiliated want to join a MSGC that is completely equal to TTASA. Which is why if the MSGC became the NSO/NGB, everyone would join.

As it is TTASA holds the NSO/NGB power while affiliates sit below them on the MSGC. The MSGC cannot liaise with the Ministry of Sport directly, the NSO/NGB must do that, so everything done at MSGC level must in-turn pass through TTASA, including concessions, subvention and funding - that is the problem non-affiliate clubs have with joining the MSGC.

TTUNDRA was named Chairman of the MSGC...

slight correction here (no stones being thrown :wink: )
.
The MSGC cannot liaise with the Ministry of Sport directly, the NSO/NGB must do that,

This is EXACTLY in keeping with national Sport Policy..........MSYA does NOT wish to deal with 'one hundred & one' sporting bodies...JUST THE NGB. Thus, the only way to properly represent your organisation/sporting discipline at MSYA level is to be affiliated to the umbrella body (be it TTCB, TTFF, NAAA, TTASA, etc, etc).
.
rgds

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby gt4tified » May 14th, 2012, 1:34 pm

I would not like to think that I'm typing for typing's sake. I think my questions need to be examined in context.

Are concessions/subventions/funding and being able to hug-up under one umbrella the only benefits of joining the MSGC? What is this funding going to be used for, just staging of events or is there some agreed and established plan for Motorsport that funding is going to be directed towards? Is it altogether unreasonable to assume that the MoS will want to see some master plan amenable to all parties before presenting funding to a Motorsport NGB whoever it may be?

I see it as old wine in new bottles because as it exists, the MSGC sits, notwithstanding being separate from, but UNDER TTASA. Its like a man who brings his child into the family busuness and says to them "Don't think of me as your Daddy, but only as your Boss". If TTASA were to relinquish NGB status, would that relationship between the MSGC & TTASA continue to exist as is and if so, are you 100% sure that if the NGB changes but the relationship doesn't that all non-affiliates would get on board?

If the MSGC is to be the NGB, for there to be peace, the parent-child relationship between TTASA and the MSGC must cease to exist.

But then again, maybe I do need to take a rest from typing...allyuh have fun.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby link » May 14th, 2012, 2:05 pm

are you 100% sure that if the NGB changes but the relationship doesn't that all non-affiliates would get on board?

not all non-affiliates will be able to qualify for the MSGC........
.
that being said...any (local) motor sport body CAN become affiliated to the (local) NGB....
.
:idea:

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby White CZ4A » May 14th, 2012, 3:06 pm

too much acronyms in this here thread.
head hurts...

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 14th, 2012, 4:42 pm

gt4tified wrote:I would not like to think that I'm typing for typing's sake. I think my questions need to be examined in context.
alot of it was answered already though. Just not directly to you.

gt4tified wrote:Are concessions/subventions/funding and being able to hug-up under one umbrella the only benefits of joining the MSGC?
the benefits of operating as a unified group are infinite, most are obvious. Currently ARA, CARS and TTKA help TTRC with huge events such as Rally Trinidad, so the more the merrier. Corporate sponsors feel better when dealing with a larger, more organised body. Competitors get benefits etc etc etc

gt4tified wrote:What is this funding going to be used for, just staging of events or is there some agreed and established plan for Motorsport that funding is going to be directed towards?
depends on what they want funding for. They can request funding or budget allocation for a motorsport facility or for just a single event. Again that's pretty obvious and works just like any National Governing Body for sport.

gt4tified wrote:Is it altogether unreasonable to assume that the MoS will want to see some master plan amenable to all parties before presenting funding to a Motorsport NGB whoever it may be?
obviously the MoS will want to see plans etc. But before you can plan you need unity so that you do not end up with 5 or 20 different "master plans".

gt4tified wrote:I see it as old wine in new bottles because as it exists, the MSGC sits, notwithstanding being separate from, but UNDER TTASA. Its like a man who brings his child into the family busuness and says to them "Don't think of me as your Daddy, but only as your Boss".
But whether he is his daddy or his boss, he is still above his child or his employee. Not so?
The clubs do not see themselves as children of TTASA and so they do not see themselves below TTASA. They seek equal representation.

gt4tified wrote:If TTASA were to relinquish NGB status, would that relationship between the MSGC & TTASA continue to exist as is and if so, are you 100% sure that if the NGB changes but the relationship doesn't that all non-affiliates would get on board?
as stated before the clubs want the MSGC to be the NSO however TTASA would also sit on the MSGC and retain their ASN status and in theory bring FIA benefits to the MSGC.

gt4tified wrote:If the MSGC is to be the NGB, for there to be peace, the parent-child relationship between TTASA and the MSGC must cease to exist.
obviously. It is a governing body / affiliate relationship, not really a parent / child relationship.

gt4tified wrote:But then again, maybe I do need to take a rest from typing...allyuh have fun.
obviously :lol: j/k

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby dragaholic » May 14th, 2012, 5:29 pm

link wrote:
are you 100% sure that if the NGB changes but the relationship doesn't that all non-affiliates would get on board?

not all non-affiliates will be able to qualify for the MSGC.........
that being said...any (local) motor sport body CAN become affiliated to the (local) NGB....
.
:idea:


Care to expand on this?

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby UML » May 14th, 2012, 5:49 pm

these are the video clips i was referring to (somebody please embed for the benefit of all)

http://www.cnc3.co.tt/content/roberts-w ... g-facility


http://www.cnc3.co.tt/content/minister- ... t-meet-him


:|

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby UML » May 14th, 2012, 6:22 pm

yuh forget this one....

http://www.cnc3.co.tt/content/ttasa-rec ... d-valencia


btw.....TTASA eh SHAME dey eh have money after hosting drag racing for so many years?!!!! I know hosting it has the necessary costs....but is numerous times for the year they having drags and for yearssssss......from $20 to $100 entrance fee..not to mention the fees for the pit area.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby sMASH » May 14th, 2012, 7:20 pm

but, what ever decision is made at the MSGC still has to filter through the level of NGB i.e. ttasa before it reaches the MoS. and vice versa, all communication from the MoS will go though the NGB i.e. TTASA before it reaches the MSGC level.

when setting up systems, we tend to set up relationships between nodes which would have the least amount of attenuation or distortion or modification.

in this scenario the go-between the MSGC level and the MoS level is TTASA. historically there is minimal confidence in the integrity and capability of TTASA as it is currently.

in the interest of development, a system should be set up where there is the most confidence. for this to happen, the go-between should be some other body other than TTASA

i see no reason why the highest level for motor sport can't be the MSGC level, as it is explained here. it would be a board comprising reps from all disciplines, as was explained. but just like a company with a board of directors, which is what this would be like any way, there would be a MoS liaison committee, ratified by the board of disciplines.


each discipline could select their board reps by either election, nomination, rotation how ever, initially and the best practise could be decided later.
the chair of the board of disciplines could be selected in a similar fashion.


the MSGC(what ever that acronym stands for) would be the NGB with a committee or department responsible for liaising with the MoS and SPORTT, and the public and the media, and all round PR. the ASN status for FIA could remain with TTASA, but for the time being. eventually, the best thing would be for the NGB to get the ASN status








but, MoS playing up, because they have the SPORTT that can facilitate the whole facility for racing, from design to management, construction to operations.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 14th, 2012, 7:37 pm

^ Acronyms:

MSGC - Motor Sport General Council
MSYA - Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs (also referred to as MoS - Ministry of Sport)
SPORTT - Sports Company of T&T www.sportt-tt.com
FIA - Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (International Automobile Federation) FIFA is to football what FIA is to motorsport.
ASN - Autorite Sportive Nationale (the National Sporting Authority for the FIA in a country)
NSO - National Sporting Organisation, now known as the NGB
NGB - National Governing Body, previously known as the NSO
TTASA - Trinidad and Tobago Automobile Sports Association
TTRC - Trinidad & Tobago Rally Club (club that has Rally Trinidad, Rally Tobago etc)
ARA - AutoSport Racing Association (aka AutoSport)
CARS - Creative Auto and Recreational Sport (club that has solodex)
TTKA - Trinidad & Tobago Karting Association
TTUNDRA - T&T Unified Drag Racers Association

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby sMASH » May 14th, 2012, 7:42 pm

TTASA, take one for the team!!!!

think of it like taking two steps back to get ten steps forward.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby link » May 14th, 2012, 8:42 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:^ Acronyms:

MSGC - Motor Sport General Council
MSYA - Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs (also referred to as MoS - Ministry of Sport)
SPORTT - Sports Company of T&T http://www.sportt-tt.com
FIA - Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (International Automobile Federation) FIFA is to football what FIA is to motorsport.
ASN - Autorite Sportive Nationale (the National Sporting Authority for the FIA in a country)
NSO - National Sporting Organisation, now known as the NGB
NGB - National Governing Body, previously known as the NSO
TTASA - Trinidad and Tobago Automobile Sports Association
TTRC - Trinidad & Tobago Rally Club (club that has Rally Trinidad, Rally Tobago etc)
ARA - AutoSport Racing Association (aka AutoSport)
CARS - Creative Auto and Recreational Sport (club that has solodex)
TTKA - Trinidad & Tobago Karting Association
TTUNDRA - T&T Unified Drag Racers Association

TTNSA - Trinidad & Tobago Navigation & Stages Association
TTRA - Trinidad & Tobago Rally Association
TTCKR - Trinidad & Tobago Championship Kart Racing
yuh ferget TORMATT :(
rgds

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby pete » May 14th, 2012, 8:57 pm

Who is TTCKR and TTNSA? Do they put on events?

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby sMASH » May 14th, 2012, 9:35 pm

now allyuh could put them in two categories: one who supports ttasa being NGB, and the other who don't support ttasa being NGB.

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 14th, 2012, 10:28 pm

TTASA Affiliates:
TTUNDRA
Horizon Motorsport
TTNSA
TTRA
V8 Boys
TTCKR (never heard of them till now)
Not sure of the others

Registered Associations so far refusing to become affiliated to TTASA:
TTRC
TTKA
CARS
ARA
TORMATT - The Off Road Motorcycle Association of Trinidad & Tobago
DWO - Drift World Order
TTORC - T&T Off Road Club
Trail Blazers 4x4
TTPBA (power boat association)

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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby SR » May 14th, 2012, 10:43 pm

Duane you missing the more important information
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:TTASA Affiliates:
TTUNDRA have had zero events
Horizon Motorsport zero events
TTNSA zero events
TTRA treasure hunt fun rallies for companies
V8 Boys a few car shows
TTCKR (never heard of them till now) zero events
Not sure of the others

Registered Associations so far refusing to become affiliated to TTASA:
TTRC rally trinidad & rally tobago and national championships for 40 years
TTKA national championships for decades
CARS national championships for the past 12 years
ARA national championships for decades and even doing events in other countries, now having Drag + Wind championship
TORMATT national championships
DWO numerous events and demonstrations, club also takes part in Drag + Wind
TTORC numerous events every year
Trail Blazers 4x4 numerous events every year
TTPBA Great race, numerous regattas every year
Plus these "non-affiliates" work very well together all the time. For rally trinidad CARS, ARA, TTORC, TTKA and Trail Blazers all work with TTRC to put on that international event.

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gt4tified
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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby gt4tified » May 14th, 2012, 10:57 pm

Sorry for wasting server space Duane.
Last edited by gt4tified on May 16th, 2012, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pete
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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby pete » May 14th, 2012, 10:59 pm

Autosport is ARA

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gt4tified
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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby gt4tified » May 14th, 2012, 11:43 pm

Sorry for wasting server space Duane.
Last edited by gt4tified on May 16th, 2012, 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sMASH
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Re: Minister of Sport: No land for motorsport without unity

Postby sMASH » May 15th, 2012, 1:01 am

c'mon ttasa, take one for the team.......

relinquish your death grip on NGB status and bestow it on the MSGC


i now watch anil on the cnc interview. is like he knows what goin on, but just playing along verbally, according to the official words of the NGB holder. practically challenging ttasa as to the legitimacy of the numerical value of the non-affiliate motor sport bodies.

to paraphrase:
'if is juss one, one, yuh cyar get one? one alone not affiliated? onnnnneeeee'


just like how countries formulate proposals and vie for the opportunity of hosting olympics, if only mahabir and cadiz could come together with the rest of their peeps and make a faction. they could make a proposal and a presentation of the of the comparative sides. probably woo some of the ttasa support group over.
i sure that some of them affiliated to ttasa just because of the NGB status, and hoping for good treatment in the future. if they see a viable contender they may actually jump ship.

when both sides are sized up on numbers, track record(no pun intended), capability, potential, vision, then we could see who holding back what progress.

btw, what is the basis for bestowing NGB status, nostalgia and convenient nomenclature?


we do not make the land, we make the country. country is just a set of rules, that we make up. and if we make the rules, we can change the rules.
it may not be that easy, but it should be that simple.

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