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Right to bear arms

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Redman
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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 18th, 2019, 9:25 pm

De Dragon wrote:
Redman wrote:@shogun....
My point was that the benefit of having armed citizens who are able and willing to respond to a mass shooting attempt...is already proven in the US.

I could care less who wrote the article,and whether he is an activist or not...there is a ton of fake news out there...you should know that before you get worked up.


As I posted above before you edited your last post...its 2019 and as such we need to adapt to the world as it is.

Also disproven in the case of Marjorie Stoneman where several armed law enforcement officers just outside sat with their thumbs up their arses while inside was level gunshots/deading.


Google willing.
:roll:

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby shogun » March 18th, 2019, 11:53 pm

Redman wrote:You dont agree with dealing with the world as it actually is?-The 'as it is' part is acknowledging and attacking the problem.That there are too many guns in the wrong hands. NOTHING is going to change that.


Man, you really reaching? Thought it was pretty obvious that the arguments we put forward in here, were our expressed opinions of how to deal with the problem "as it is?" Wasn't aware there was another option? But if semantics is your idea of a serious response, then by all means, go for it.


Redman wrote:Sure-been saying this for a long time. That said the bar cant be set in order to make it impossible, for a normal citizen to carry.


Impossible? Loopholes, waiting periods that are too short, private transactions not requiring a background check, the fact that multiple gun purchases get only the standard background check, courts that are only allowed to share specific details but not allowed to share other court findings that a person might pose a danger to the public, more frequent and stringent continuous checks on owners of semi automatic assault weapons, with specific reasons being required for their ownership in the first place. I mean the list goes on. Things so out of whack that in some states marijuana is more regulated than guns. Ridiculous. I just don't think civilian gun ownership saturation is a solution and might actually exacerbate the problem. And how normal are we talking about here though? Because I know normal people that don't deserve a driver's permit.... far less for a gun permit. Thaz a joke by the way, eh. Well kinda, because even the Las Vegas shooter that killed 59 people, was from all accounts a "normal person" and the authorities have yet to establish a motive. More needs to be done. Good for the New Zealand Prime Minister for not politicizing the issue and immediately acting upon tightening gun laws.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 7:00 am

Ok so I think we agree that the problem is there are in existence today too many guns in the wrong hands.

You think that more laws will stop those that have already broken existing laws.

Ridiculous. I just don't think civilian gun ownership saturation is a solution and might actually exacerbate the problem.

Saturation? why the extreme interpretation?
Logically a way forward is to allow those so minded to become legal holders of a fire arm.
Set clear,impartial and objective process to underwrite and qualify persons to do so
In local context establish training and periodic re cert at existing ranges, Insurance bonds,medicals randomized inspection etc
Establish a system,implement and manage the over-site.

More needs to be done. Good for the New Zealand Prime Minister for not politicizing the issue and immediately acting upon tightening gun laws.


You think it makes sense to tighten gun laws in order to stop someone who has already decided to kill?

You think making it harder for those who WANT to follow the law-(numerical majority) is a good idea?

Lets start at the beginning.

If the NZ mosque had a simple security plan-and they saw a dude walking up to the building loaded for war....and they locked down the entrances,having hardened the doors....what would be the outcome?

If 3 or 4 of the faithful were carrying, able and willing to defend after the shooting started....what would be the result?

If you or your family were in that building, would you prefer to sit and wait for the police?
Or would you prefer to have some one with a legal gun do something about it?
Honest answers in your response please

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby rspann » March 19th, 2019, 7:08 am

Are the qualifications for ownership too stringent in Trinidad and thus the ones that cannot get through are just not qualified ?because there are a lot of owners/ users ,and there are people who apply and get through without bribing.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 7:10 am

So what do you all think should we as a multi racial ethnic and religious society be doing here now today?

The NZ shooter was active for 17 odd minutes before NZPD arrives.

What do you all think is realistic for sweet TnT?

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby sMASH » March 19th, 2019, 7:16 am

It's not stringent enough. It needs to have mandatory pyche evaluations as part of the licencing/renewal process.


But, it's not that's its stringent. it's damn corrupt and uses the stringent to justify being abundantly cautious.
rspann wrote:Are the qualifications for ownership too stringent in Trinidad and thus the ones that cannot get through are just not qualified ?because there are a lot of owners/ users ,and there are people who apply and get through without bribing.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby sMASH » March 19th, 2019, 7:17 am

Same reason why u teach first aid and cpr, and give out condoms; Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Redman wrote:So what do you all think should we as a multi racial ethnic and religious society be doing here now today?

The NZ shooter was active for 17 odd minutes before NZPD arrives.

What do you all think is realistic for sweet TnT?

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 7:21 am

rspann wrote:Are the qualifications for ownership too stringent in Trinidad and thus the ones that cannot get through are just not qualified ?because there are a lot of owners/ users ,and there are people who apply and get through without bribing.


The process for an FUL has little to do with the need desire or ABILITY to carry a fire arm.


The process for a FUEC has NOTHING to do with the ability to carry,use or not use a fire arm.

both processes are 100% irrelevant

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby pugboy » March 19th, 2019, 7:27 am

GG say yesterday you need to get provisional learners training before you get an FUL


Redman wrote:
rspann wrote:Are the qualifications for ownership too stringent in Trinidad and thus the ones that cannot get through are just not qualified ?because there are a lot of owners/ users ,and there are people who apply and get through without bribing.


The process for an FUL has little to do with the need desire or ABILITY to carry a fire arm.


The process for a FUEC has NOTHING to do with the ability to carry,use or not use a fire arm.

both processes are 100% irrelevant

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 8:05 am

Like a license a the 'provisional' is like a cert of participation.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby 16 cycles » March 19th, 2019, 9:50 am

16 cycles wrote:Can you practice on a gun range without a FUL or provisional?

Asking as i really unaware...



Redman wrote:The ranges will apply for a FUEC- Firearm User Employee Certificate for a member.
Once granted the person will be able to use the ranges firearms on the range with a range officer present.

Its an easy process-but can take some time.

I guess that equates to a provisional


From another thread - splicing in here as it may be useful as ppl try to make sense of the process /processes

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby 88sins » March 19th, 2019, 12:27 pm

16 cycles wrote:
16 cycles wrote:Can you practice on a gun range without a FUL or provisional?

Asking as i really unaware...



Redman wrote:The ranges will apply for a FUEC- Firearm User Employee Certificate for a member.
Once granted the person will be able to use the ranges firearms on the range with a range officer present.

Its an easy process-but can take some time.

I guess that equates to a provisional


From another thread - splicing in here as it may be useful as ppl try to make sense of the process /processes



an association related FUEC does not equate to a provisional license, & the two are very different things.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby rspann » March 19th, 2019, 12:50 pm

Exactly, that is why there's form 1 and 16, one is the provisional. There IS mandatory psych evaluation to the comment that said it should have.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby rspann » March 19th, 2019, 12:53 pm

To those who applied and didn't get through, where in the process did you get stuck?

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 1:57 pm

88sins wrote:
16 cycles wrote:
16 cycles wrote:Can you practice on a gun range without a FUL or provisional?

Asking as i really unaware...



Redman wrote:The ranges will apply for a FUEC- Firearm User Employee Certificate for a member.
Once granted the person will be able to use the ranges firearms on the range with a range officer present.

Its an easy process-but can take some time.

I guess that equates to a provisional


From another thread - splicing in here as it may be useful as ppl try to make sense of the process /processes



an association related FUEC does not equate to a provisional license, & the two are very different things.


how so?

Yes they are different things-but what they do is similar-not so?
The provisional is authorization from the CoP to train with a gun...at a named range and expires in 3 months or something so.
the FUEC at the range is given as a result of your membership at the range.

Both mean that you can only shoot here.

Functionally the same.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby 88sins » March 19th, 2019, 2:28 pm

Redman wrote:
how so?

The provisional is authorization from the CoP to train with a gun...at a named range and expires in 3 months or something so.
the FUEC at the range is given as a result of your membership at the range.

Both mean that you can only shoot here.

Functionally the same.


Functionally similar, in that they both allow you to discharge a firearm at a specific location, but that's where their similarities stop, because the the actual purposes of these licenses are not the same at all. One gets you valuable certification, the other gets you nothing

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Slartibartfast » March 19th, 2019, 3:03 pm

sMASH wrote:Same reason why u teach first aid and cpr, and give out condoms; Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
When last have you seen a mass first aiding resulting in several casualties and deaths that could have been stopped by a condom in the right hands?

If the answer is never then maybe gun ownership and first aid are not that similar and you may be oversimplifying the issue.

Anyway, good info about licensing and stuff. Thanks guys.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby sMASH » March 19th, 2019, 3:57 pm

what kinda assness u type there?

mass first aid and cpr is what u would use, implement, render if u are the most immediate at the scene of an emergency , for example, a mass shooting with victims with gun shot wounds.
first aid is the response, not the cause

it IS quite obvious that gun owner ship are not similar.

since u thing first aid, cpr, condoms, plaster, seat belt, airbags, spare tire, all thsoe things are too dissimilar to gun ownership, to make that comparison, even though the premise is about preparedness...
answer this, why do police have the need to carry guns? what use are guns to them?

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 4:45 pm

88sins wrote:
Redman wrote:
how so?

The provisional is authorization from the CoP to train with a gun...at a named range and expires in 3 months or something so.
the FUEC at the range is given as a result of your membership at the range.

Both mean that you can only shoot here.

Functionally the same.


Functionally similar, in that they both allow you to discharge a firearm at a specific location, but that's where their similarities stop, because the the actual purposes of these licenses are not the same at all. One gets you valuable certification, the other gets you nothing


Singular purpose of the prov is to get the cert.
Hence its short life

A FUEC at the range you can get the Cert....and shoot any of the ranges weapons.

Splitting hairs really.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby pugboy » March 19th, 2019, 5:15 pm

So anybody apply under GG and get thru ?

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby rspann » March 19th, 2019, 7:36 pm

Lancer1234 get through in a few weeks. Gary wukking.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby sMASH » March 19th, 2019, 7:48 pm

^^ hopefully he doesnt get into a situation requiring it, and if he does, it serves its purpose well.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby pugboy » March 19th, 2019, 7:56 pm

Nah dat was before gg

rspann wrote:Lancer1234 get through in a few weeks. Gary wukking.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby redmanjp » March 19th, 2019, 8:16 pm

Once you pass 3 requirements:

-criminal background check including domestic violence reports
-psych eval.
-proper firearms training

there shouldn't be any reason to deny you a firearm

we all know TTPS eh reaching your house in less than 20 minutes- even if under GG the response time reduces to 10 that's more than enough time for an entire family to be massacred. you need protection right away, and likewise with any mass shooting, either an armed civilian or at least armed guards on the compound

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby rspann » March 19th, 2019, 8:21 pm

Look how Burkie just qualify to own a firearm!



Legally.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby rspann » March 19th, 2019, 8:24 pm

Bank records is a critical factor in Trinidad to get through. They need to see your banking trend to see if you routinely have large sums of cash.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby De Dragon » March 19th, 2019, 8:26 pm

Redman wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
Redman wrote:@shogun....
My point was that the benefit of having armed citizens who are able and willing to respond to a mass shooting attempt...is already proven in the US.

I could care less who wrote the article,and whether he is an activist or not...there is a ton of fake news out there...you should know that before you get worked up.


As I posted above before you edited your last post...its 2019 and as such we need to adapt to the world as it is.

Also disproven in the case of Marjorie Stoneman where several armed law enforcement officers just outside sat with their thumbs up their arses while inside was level gunshots/deading.


Google willing.
:roll:

That's your response? No wonder shogun have you in school, you too dotish for one person, you're probably half of a twin.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby Redman » March 19th, 2019, 8:33 pm

Well Dragon...is it not patently obvious that the officers that you referenced in your response were not willing to respond?

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby De Dragon » March 19th, 2019, 8:41 pm

Redman wrote:Well Dragon...is it not patently obvious that the officers that you referenced in your response were not willing to respond?

So why according to your theory, would untrained persons do so?
Having a gun and actually using it against an active shooter are worlds apart, especially if you're untrained. Most guns are used to harm innocent people and gun owners own families.

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Re: Right to bear arms

Postby alfa » March 19th, 2019, 8:44 pm

rspann wrote:Bank records is a critical factor in Trinidad to get through. They need to see your banking trend to see if you routinely have large sums of cash.

They don't ask you to produce bank records but when applying you will have to justify the reason for required firearm and you can explain if you are a business person who regularly handle large sums of cash. And that's for a handgun, one can also apply for shotguns for hunting and pest control (provided you are a member of a hunting association or own forested land) or sporting rifles for target shooting. However it does come down to the commissioner having the final say and the last one simply wasn't grantign none

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